The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
The Expertise stat has to go...

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Wombraider

01.13.2012 , 01:58 PM \| #661
Quote: Originally Posted by StrifedRevan while youre at it BW, just remove PVP altogether man all these crying kids rant about anything to get their way, and they usually get it, which is how games slowly become easier/lamer overtime This is what happened to WoW and why I hate/hated that MMO. I hope to hell, these same whiny *** kids don't ruin this mmo as well..

Astarica

01.13.2012 , 02:05 PM \| #662
I actually took a piece of Rakata (top PvE) with Battlemaster (top PvP) gear. I picked the focus slot since it has pretty significant stats for my class. Rakata has +10 endurance +21 willpower. Battlemaster has +50 Expertise. Everything else is exactly equal. 21 willpower is about +4 damage and +0.15% or so crit. 10 endurance is 100 HP. 50 Expertise is about +1% PvP modifier. Assuming you have 17K HP in full Battlemaster, that's equivalent of +170 HP (roughly). +1% damage is obviously more than +0.15% crit and +4 damage. That said, it's also not that much more. You're looking at an effective +70 HP for PvP, and maybe +0.8% DPS for the top PvP piece versus the top PvE piece. So a character wearing Rakata (PvE) gear is almost as strong as a character wearing Battlemaster. If there was no Expertise, the Battlemaster, since it's a purple level 58 armor, would have to be as strong as Rakata anyway. And even if for some reason it is not, then people would be complaining about the guys wearing Rakata armor are too strong, since it is almost as strong as Battlemaster armor for PvP.

bodhisattvasw

01.13.2012 , 02:10 PM \| #663
Quote: Originally Posted by Puremallace Raid gear vs people who do not want to raid WoW calls it Resilience Rift calls it Valor TOR calls it Expertise Whatever it's called, it has ruined each of these games. Valor has effectively destroyed PVP in Rift, so bad, they had to give the same valor to ALL levels of pvp gear to try and offset the tremendous imbalances. Even this didn't fix it, so now they are evaluating removal of valor, or adding valor to ALL gear (even PVE gear). Any sort of 'stat' like this is a hideous ideal for endgame pvp.

komotoz

01.13.2012 , 02:13 PM \| #664
really ....people want expertise to go ? that is dumb so what only raiders can own ? good raid gear means you win ?~~ why don't they just open a mall where you can buy gear with real money the more you spend the more you win ? pvp gear is for pvp !!!! pve gear is for pve !!! don't change that its not broken ! with out the 50s the pvp will change a lot the bolster effect is great at evening out things 10-40 after killing 40-49 is rough at under 20 even 30 but w/e and if new pvpers are discouraged that someone put more time in to getting gear for pvp wait till they find out about raid tier gear!!!! maybe those people that are discouraged about tiers of gear shouldn't play a mmorpg! (Sith War Jug immortal lvl 42 = punching bag <thats me )

yosoytupapa

01.13.2012 , 02:22 PM \| #665
Yea I agree, I think this kind of stat ruins most pvp in games. It just turns into a tank war or rock/paper/scissors battle.

SandTrout

01.13.2012 , 02:28 PM \| #666
Quote: Originally Posted by komotoz really ....people want expertise to go ? that is dumb so what only raiders can own ? No, no, no, no, NO! There are PvP Vendors, we are advocating removing expertise and simply replacing the battlemaster gear with gear equivalent to the Rakata sets. Just because Blizzard couldn't figure out a way to allow PvPers to gear up on par with PvEers doesn't mean we have to follow in their idiocy. Same stats for top-end gear, reagardless of PvP or PvE means. PvP can then PvE whenever they want, and PvE can PvP whenever they want without feeling gimped.
Nerf not, lest ye be nerfed.

Vegathegreat

01.13.2012 , 02:43 PM \| #667
Quote: Originally Posted by SandTrout No, no, no, no, NO! There are PvP Vendors, we are advocating removing expertise and simply replacing the battlemaster gear with gear equivalent to the Rakata sets. Just because Blizzard couldn't figure out a way to allow PvPers to gear up on par with PvEers doesn't mean we have to follow in their idiocy. Same stats for top-end gear, reagardless of PvP or PvE means. PvP can then PvE whenever they want, and PvE can PvP whenever they want without feeling gimped. This is an even bigger no, cuz then your saying grinding whatever time sync pvp has before you is equal to doing hardmode raids. That type of logic would kill pve as everyone would just get the gear from pvp. Pve is suppose to have a progression line with the best possible damage gear in the game, even better than the best pvp gear's damage output. The only thing they should really do is just nerf expertise by 20% and they already announced they will be nerfing the consumable stacking. Make no mistake, the good players want the best gear regardless of what ridiculous events must take place to obtain it. Good players are not challenged by 1v1 some scrub in equal gear. We know we are better and can careless about dominating 99.9% of the community. It's about taking it up a notch, maybe solo 3-5 players cuz working to get the best gear gives you a competitive advantage. MMO's are math equations boiled into real time factors with cause/effect results. The reason gear progression is there is so the best players can try and solve the equations that the other 99.9% dont even know exists. You see a bunch of people attacking each other, i see everyones actions all at once and then calculate my position and the next sequence of events on the fly. I already know what you are going to do before you do it, cuz if you dont do it your already dead, its simple math and the quicker you understand that the better you will become.

Baromega

01.13.2012 , 02:44 PM \| #668
I don't understand the argument that if expertise goes (not gear for PvPers, simply the stat), that people in raid gear would somehow start owning in PvP? I came to SWTOR with my WoW raiding guild, but unlike them I was a PvPer at heart. During the early days of SWTOR, when there were few 50s and even fewer people with decent pvp gear, we queued up together since warzones gave great exp and credit rewards. And you know what all their PvE experience amounted up to? Crap. While I was holding my own fairly decently, they were getting smacked around because they couldn't understand basic PvP tactics like circle strafing, juking interrupts, resolve/diminishing returns, realizing that those seemingly bad talents had an important place in PvP. The fact of the matter is, when you give similar gear to a pure PvE and pure PvP player (and probably balance the classes a little more), the PvP player will always come on top. And if you're not, then guess what buddy? You're not good at PvP, and no amount of "special stats" will solve that.
Server: Hyperspace Beacon Dothraki - 50 - Sith Sorceror Gauis - 31 - Operative Freckles - 27 - Sentinel

SandTrout

01.13.2012 , 02:59 PM \| #669
Quote: Originally Posted by Vegathegreat This is an even bigger no, cuz then your saying grinding whatever time sync pvp has before you is equal to doing hardmode raids. That type of logic would kill pve as everyone would just get the gear from pvp. Pve is suppose to have a progression line with the best possible damage gear in the game, even better than the best pvp gear's damage output. The only thing they should really do is just nerf expertise by 20% and they already announced they will be nerfing the consumable stacking. Make no mistake, the good players want the best gear regardless of what ridiculous events must take place to obtain it. Good players are not challenged by 1v1 some scrub in equal gear. We know we are better and can careless about dominating 99.9% of the community. It's about taking it up a notch, maybe solo 3-5 players cuz working to get the best gear gives you a competitive advantage. MMO's are math equations boiled into real time factors with cause/effect results. The reason gear progression is there is so the best players can try and solve the equations that the other 99.9% dont even know exists. You see a bunch of people attacking each other, i see everyones actions all at once and then calculate my position and the next sequence of events on the fly. I already know what you are going to do before you do it, cuz if you dont do it your already dead, its simple math and the quicker you understand that the better you will become. I see, it's not that you wan't what he has, you just don't want him to have it.
Nerf not, lest ye be nerfed.

Vegathegreat

01.13.2012 , 03:09 PM \| #670
Quote: Originally Posted by SandTrout I see, it's not that you wan't what he has, you just don't want him to have it. No he can get it too, nothing is stopping him, we all started playing this game around the sametime, it is the same grind for everyone.

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