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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

DarthHarlem's Avatar


DarthHarlem
01.06.2012 , 04:49 PM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by Bibdy View Post
So, you want a game where everyone is on equal footing, and within the same paragraph suggest that people get rewarded with 'stats'* or 'abilities'**, which puts them at an advantage over others that don't have them.

* AKA Gear
** AKA Set Bonuses
So in other words, you have never played a pvp mmo.
Grand Lord Darth Harlem the Sith Juggernaut

Major Fred'Doyle Trooper

Bibdy's Avatar


Bibdy
01.06.2012 , 04:50 PM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by solidsheep View Post
With in the system you'll have progression in gear. Just the starting pre set gear would be there to keep from being blown out of the water
You're still going to have a disadvantage, particularly if you show up 3 weeks late to the party, and people will still complain about it. It's an unending problem, ergo, you either have a PvP game like Pong, or you just deal with the fact that some people are going to have statistical advantages over you, because its those statistical advantages and rewards which is what keeps the vast majority of people playing and putting up with the grind (hence paying ongoing subscription fees) in the first place.

If you don't like that, why on earth are you looking for equally balanced PvP in an MMO?

Bibdy's Avatar


Bibdy
01.06.2012 , 04:52 PM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthHarlem View Post
So in other words, you have never played a pvp mmo.
What? I've played WoW PvP plenty. I'm trying to figure out your own thought process, because you just contradicted yourself.

Do you want a game where

A) everyone has exactly the same stats/character strength, where it doesn't matter how much they win/lose, everything is equal

or

B) everyone has a variety of stats/character strength, based on the rewards they were given by their participation in PvP

?

DarthHarlem's Avatar


DarthHarlem
01.06.2012 , 04:55 PM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by Bibdy View Post
What? I've played WoW PvP plenty. I'm trying to figure out your own thought process, because you just contradicted yourself.

Do you want a game where

A) everyone has exactly the same stats/character strength, where it doesn't matter how much they win/lose, everything is equal

or

B) everyone has a variety of stats/character strength, based on the rewards they were given by their participation in PvP

?
Hahaha WoW is not remotely a pvp mmo. Pay attention, I said pvp mmo, not pvp in a mmo. WoW is a pve mmo with pvp. Understand now? In most, not all pvp mmo's, you get bonuses that you can use to improve your character. Its nto all about gear. Heck in some, you don't get anything. Personally, I'd perfer some sort of bonus in which we can apply based on choice.

What more strength? More hits? A special heal? Etc.
Grand Lord Darth Harlem the Sith Juggernaut

Major Fred'Doyle Trooper

arggonuts's Avatar


arggonuts
01.06.2012 , 04:58 PM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthHarlem View Post
What more strength? More hits? A special heal? Etc.
Explain how that differs from gear?

Bibdy's Avatar


Bibdy
01.06.2012 , 04:58 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthHarlem View Post
Hahaha WoW is not remotely a pvp mmo. Pay attention, I said pvp mmo, not pvp in a mmo. WoW is a pve mmo with pvp. Understand now? In most, not all pvp mmo's, you get bonuses that you can use to improve your character. Its nto all about gear. Heck in some, you don't get anything. Personally, I'd perfer some sort of bonus in which we can apply based on choice.

What more strength? More hits? A special heal? Etc.
But, there's still a variety in character strength. Whether it comes from gear, like WoW or ToR, or some handful of stats/abilities is of ZERO consequence. At the end of the day, you've got some people that are stronger than others by the simple fact that they've participated in PvP more.

You're really not as smart as you seem to think you are.

DarthHarlem's Avatar


DarthHarlem
01.06.2012 , 05:01 PM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by arggonuts View Post
Explain how that differs from gear?
Understand, I'm not just saying stats. Lets say you have a pool of options based on class you could chose from to boost your character from points rewarded in pvp. They can be other abilities, things to boost your current abilities, faster run time, etc. Things like this have been done in pvp mmos. Thats all I'm saying. It seems that Bioware is going with gear and that's their decision, I just think it would be much more interesting if it was not based around gear. I'm sure those who have played pvp mmos would agree.
Grand Lord Darth Harlem the Sith Juggernaut

Major Fred'Doyle Trooper

solidsheep's Avatar


solidsheep
01.06.2012 , 05:01 PM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by Bibdy View Post
You're still going to have a disadvantage, particularly if you show up 3 weeks late to the party, and people will still complain about it. It's an unending problem, ergo, you either have a PvP game like Pong, or you just deal with the fact that some people are going to have statistical advantages over you, because its those statistical advantages and rewards which is what keeps the vast majority of people playing and putting up with the grind (hence paying ongoing subscription fees) in the first place.

If you don't like that, why on earth are you looking for equally balanced PvP in an MMO?
Well the thing is I don't have problem with gear gaps I have problem of how mmo's split the pvp base apart (across all servers).

Ogrezilla's Avatar


Ogrezilla
01.06.2012 , 05:04 PM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by solidsheep View Post
That's my point why should you get anywhere if you haven't accomplished anything.

Crosby at 18 joined the nhl and at 19 was the captain of the Pittsburgh Penguins.
Tracy McGrady also joined the nba at 18.

You think all the young people that join pro team at a young age just go there because they cried and didnt work for it.
Most play in the minor leagues first. Give us a minor league to get better before I have to play against Sidney Crosby. Either start giving gear with some expertise as players level or bracket the players differently. I don't expect to be dominating my PvP matches as soon as I hit 50.

Bibdy's Avatar


Bibdy
01.06.2012 , 05:05 PM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthHarlem View Post
Understand, I'm not just saying stats. Lets say you have a pool of options based on class you could chose from to boost your character from points rewarded in pvp. They can be other abilities, things to boost your current abilities, faster run time, etc. Things like this have been done in pvp mmos. Thats all I'm saying. It seems that Bioware is going with gear and that's their decision, I just think it would be much more interesting if it was not based around gear. I'm sure those who have played pvp mmos would agree.
And that kind of variety is NOTORIOUSLY difficult to balance, which just pisses people off even more. There's enough complaining going on with just base class abilities between 16 different classes (taking into account some glaring differences between mirror classes), that rewarding the Shadow an extra AOE ability vs giving the Vanguard an extra stun, would drive people even crazier.

This is why they've chosen to take the gear route, so the primary difference is the statistical bonus, and you get these little tweaks to actual abilities and class functionality in the form of PvP set bonuses.