The Expertise stat has to go...

Seems you don't get it. The idea is that you get the same exact items from PvP and PvE. You only choose what you want to do to get it. You can focus on one side if you want, or you can do both. In all scenarios everyone in the game gets the same gear and are able to do both sides of end game.

What? On WoW anyone who wants to even 'so-so' PvP always gets a full PvP set. Even the fake PvPers have a full set of the Honor bought gear.

On Rift? most are trading their tokens for Valor gear so I don't know wherreeee you're getting this info from buuuuuuuuuut yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa.

No it seems you don't get it. They are exactly the same items pvpwise.

Do you even understand the pve side of the game? PVE Gear scales ridiculously fast because ... (listen this is important) ... Developers use gear as a checkpoints for progression content. By the time you're in T2 or T3 gear, you have twice that stats of a starter level 50.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the first boss in any new raid instance is a dps check? There are vast difference between tier 1 and tier 2 raid gear. Hence the ridiculous pve scaling. PVP gear needs the expertise to keep up with the ridiculous scaling because they would lose out to the pver's.

Not only that, but developers want to seperate pve and pvp to extend the content of their game. So they basically make you pve to progress in pve. If the pvp items had the same stats and no expertise stat. Raid progression guilds would just farm the bejesus out of pvp in order to progress. We've seen this already in rift where the best guilds in the world were farming each other for pvp gear to progress in pve. Think current Ilum, but on a 12 hour scale. Bioware is avoiding that mistake.

Lastly put it this way ... If the OP wasn't whining about expertise ... he would be whining that progressions guilds are ruining pvp because they get the 'phat lootz' faster than anyone else. It would be the same problem with a different name.

Still not getting it.....

PVP is far easier to get gear.

Is it really fair for to the PVE-ers to work their arses off to down a raid only to have PVPers who've afked 2/3s of their "game life" in WZs purchase full Battlemaster PVP gear in one week?

The answer is no. Even though it's "just a game". No one likes to have their efforts diminished; especially when the 'other person' didn't work for it.

How you describe it, is exactly how it SHOULD have been.

Also, make PvP armors all prototypes, with unique looks, so PvPers can still wear it as a 'trophy bragging right' if they choose.

But yes, remove Expertise. Make ALL high level purple mods available through ALL means; PvE, Crafting, and/or PvP.

That way everyone has access to the highest stats, assuming they work for it.

Correct. Not to mention the best argument of them all:

Looks > stats.

I don't care i have the highest pvp gear available if i look like i'm in a gimp suit. Make it all customizable if you really want to give people a choice.

Okay. Create a system where high end raiders don't have an extreme advantage over PvPers without it coming down to a stat. Go on. I'll wait.

I agree that it is a bad stat to have and can make matches unfair when full groups have it and others don't. Unfortunately, a lot of the popular MMOs have a similar stat which gives PVP specific bonuses. I think that BW has made a great game overall, but I would like to see them break the mold and make all the end game gear equally good for either PVE or PVP. It will allow those that obtain their gear through raiding to PVP on occasion and those that PVP to join a raid every once in a while. At the same time, neither group of people are harmed and everyone gets good gear. If you want to make the armor different, make it be cosmetic differences only.

No matter how you look at it, all classes being equal, a person with full expertise will have a significant advantage over a person with no expertise. I am all about the fact that people should be rewarded for their time, but PVP should be fair and the team that wins should be based on their skill and their skill alone.

Who in there right mind can justify that farming PVE gear to use in Pvp is justifiable.

Its like saying "I'm going to go learn to drive a car really well... then jump in a commercial plane and fly around the world"
There is just no justification by it, if you really want this pvp gear so badly because it makes such a difference you would have grinded it to begin with.

And god forbid, should I want to suddenly drop into a hardcore progression guild under the same pretences of being able to do well like you PVE heroes believe you should be able to do in Pvp using pve gear and do well, why won't I be taken on and get into any raid I want, regardless of difficulty while having pvp gear.

Seriously, wow does this and wow does this well.

You go into pvp with PVE gear, you get owned laughed at destroyed.
You go into Pve with pve gear, you get owned, laughed at /kicked.

Which is as it should be.

Imo - Expertise, working as intended. Half of the reason this even causes an issue right now is because the level gaps aren't divided by brackets and expertise isn't a bolstered stat which lower levels can benefit from so when your level 20 alt goes running into pvp and gets owned by a lvl 50 without making a scratch on some guy wearing pvp gear you see the fact that he has Pvp gear, that this person has earned and bring it up as an issue.

What advantage?


If you can get the SAME highest purple mods from ANY of the methods... PvE, Crafting, or PvP... then everyone who works at the highest levels of their 'path' could all theoretically get the same maxed out stats.

Which means confrontations would then come down to skill. (assuming those involved put in that time and work to get those highest-level-purple mods)


IMO, the only variation should be in the types (ie, appearance and style) of prototype armors available; that way, PvE, Crafting, and PvP maxers can still 'brag' by wearing rare prototype armors you can only get in each of those paths. But stat-wise, it would all be the same; maxed out.