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Reuseable potions are fantastic - reusable adrenals/stims are a horrible idea

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Reuseable potions are fantastic - reusable adrenals/stims are a horrible idea

borghe's Avatar


borghe
01.03.2012 , 08:26 AM | #31
I'm guessing the OP doesn't get how CDs work in raiding...

you get 585 for 15 seconds every 3 minutes (which BTW is common).

what it really means is you get 585 for 1/12th of the time.

585 / 12 = 48.75

so biochems at 400 get a permanent 49 point average boost to a stat that pops as a CD to be used during the burn phase.

it is very common in every decent MMORPG for crafters to get a "max crafting level perk" bonus to their stats. whether it's a BOP mod, a bop ear piece, a bop enchant, etc. in this case it's a bop reusable stim.

Exertim's Avatar


Exertim
01.03.2012 , 08:38 AM | #32
Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pigeonholing players into one crew skill.

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. There comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem. I've always championed the idea of buffing over nerfing.

And the stuff required to make it isn't even hard to get. The alloys are already rotting in our HM flashpoints.

csward's Avatar


csward
01.03.2012 , 08:40 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Asolar View Post
The adrenals that are being referred to do not add 565 to any base stats, you might want to do alittle research before you say that. But it those add to secondary stats surge/crit/armor etc, they also required a craft material that only comes from drop in operations, maybe also hardmode end bosses ?

The real problem with the stims/adrenals are they are extremely expensixe to craft, and so not worth it at all unless its in the reuseable version. The blue version cost 2-3 times that of a blue/purple implant to make in mats.
I dont think anyone will want to pay 10k or more to get a 15sec boost. If they made them super cheap then there might be a market.

The blue stims last 2 hours so i think they are only usefull for raids/flashpoints, but thats it. If they lastet say 8 hours then a player might pay 10-20k for that extra 104stat boost for pvp or normal play.
Yes, but if you die they go away...PvP or otherwise...Right now only 400 level purple stims stay after death. All stims need to stay on after death.

excentric's Avatar


excentric
01.03.2012 , 08:45 AM | #34
So what skills do I take with biochem ?
Deception sin <3

Wallach's Avatar


Wallach
01.03.2012 , 08:46 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Exertim View Post
Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pidgeonholing players into one crew skill.

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. THere comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem.
Two things, I would guess:

One, the question of whether or not the cost of leveling Biochem after dropping their previous crew skill would eventually outweigh the cost of keeping their current skill and buying the consumable versions that don't require Biochem.

Two, you will be unable to access the items from the crew skill you are dropping from any content beyond what you crafted before you dropped it. Any new schematics that get added in patches and content updates are gone.

The difference between Exotech and Rakata consumables is not very large in terms of stats, only upkeep costs. Basically, if your crew skill can give you any kind of stat gain that is larger than the difference between Exotech and Rakata, it is more powerful to go that route, even if it is more costly in terms of credits. When it comes to min-max type play, Biochem probably is not the most effective crew skill available.

Stillnotking's Avatar


Stillnotking
01.03.2012 , 08:48 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by csward View Post
Yes, but if you die they go away...PvP or otherwise...Right now only 400 level purple stims stay after death. All stims need to stay on after death.
Max level blue stims persist through defeat. The perk of biochem, besides saving money on mats, is having the Rakata level stims, which are (slightly) better than blues and "normal" purples.

I can't believe how many people in this thread are complaining about things that are just completely false. Adrenals give you +50% crit? I freakin' wish!
Imperial Agent - Operative - Medic
"Every man is surrounded by a neighborhood of voluntary spies." - Jane Austen

borghe's Avatar


borghe
01.03.2012 , 08:52 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Exertim View Post
Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pigeonholing players into one crew skill.

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. There comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem.
reusable stim is moot, really. reusable medkit on a CD is moot as well, especially because you still only get one medkit per combat anyway..

I mean for all the sky is falling that you guys are crying, I'm failing to see the uberness of biochem, aside from you, the biochemist, not using consumables.

by comparison the following crew skills get:

cybertech -bop earpieces and reusable grenades
armortech - bop armor pieces
armstech - useless :\
biochem - we've already gone over it ad nausem. reusable consumables at +49 stat boost
artifice - bop relics that do 380 for 20 seconds (380 / 9 = 42 point bonus)
synthweaving - bop armor pieces.

Exertim's Avatar


Exertim
01.03.2012 , 08:54 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Wallach View Post
Two things, I would guess:

One, the question of whether or not the cost of leveling Biochem after dropping their previous crew skill would eventually outweigh the cost of keeping their current skill and buying the consumable versions that don't require Biochem.

Two, you will be unable to access the items from the crew skill you are dropping from any content beyond what you crafted before you dropped it. Any new schematics that get added in patches and content updates are gone.

The difference between Exotech and Rakata consumables is not very large in terms of stats, only upkeep costs. Basically, if your crew skill can give you any kind of stat gain that is larger than the difference between Exotech and Rakata, it is more powerful to go that route, even if it is more costly in terms of credits. When it comes to min-max type play, Biochem probably is not the most effective crew skill available.
Honestly, no one at level max cares about credits. It's so easy to make money in this game that it's a non factor; I'm sitting at 3.2 million credits right now with nothing to spend it on. That being said, what crew skill offers a bigger effective damage ncrease than adrenals? Nothing you can craft is better than the Columi (possibly even Tionese) or higher tier set items anyways, so that effectively renders nearly every crafting crew skill outside of Biochem useless.

They need to buff the other crewskills. In some shape or form, and it needs to happen soon.

Wallach's Avatar


Wallach
01.03.2012 , 08:57 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Exertim View Post
Honestly, no one at level max cares about credits. It's so easy to make money in this game that it's a non factor; I'm sitting at 3.2 million credits right now with nothing to spend it on. That being said, what crew skill offers a bigger effective damage ncrease than adrenals? Nothing you can craft is better than the Columi (possibly even Tionese) or higher tier set items anyways, so that effectively renders nearly every crafting crew skill outside of Biochem useless.

They need to buff the other crewskills. In some shape or form, and it needs to happen soon.
That's sort of my point. There are Exotech adrenals that any class can use, and they are only 30 points weaker than Rakata adrenals. It's not a big difference in effectiveness, but an issue of cost/convenience. I don't think that makes Biochem overpowered.

Exertim's Avatar


Exertim
01.03.2012 , 08:59 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by borghe View Post
reusable stim is moot, really. reusable medkit on a CD is moot as well, especially because you still only get one medkit per combat anyway..

I mean for all the sky is falling that you guys are crying, I'm failing to see the uberness of biochem, aside from you, the biochemist, not using consumables.

by comparison the following crew skills get:

cybertech -bop earpieces and reusable grenades
armortech - bop armor pieces
armstech - useless :\
biochem - we've already gone over it ad nausem. reusable consumables at +49 stat boost
artifice - bop relics that do 380 for 20 seconds (380 / 9 = 42 point bonus)
synthweaving - bop armor pieces.
Cybertech - earpieces are outclassed by Columi items, which more and more people are gaining access to even this early on in the game. Grenades are OK, but from a PvE perspective, Biochem crushes. My suggestion: lower grenade c/d from 5mins to something around 2minutes.

Armortech - same as above, anything a armortech can make (even via BoP schematics found in HM flashpoints) are far outclassed. Throw armortechs a bone here; give them craftable 130~+ rating stuff that requires operations/HM flashpoint items

Artifice - Easy fix? Slap stats onto the relics. You're forgetting that Biochems don't magically lose access to their relic slot when they make their Adrenals, so it's not really an advantage at all. That and the second boss in Taral V (HM) drops similar epic grade relic pieces which makes it completely pointless to go Artifice if you were simply aiming for the Relics.

Synthweaving - same problems as armortech, same possible solution.

I'm not calling for a nerf for Biochem really, BW just needs to show some love for the other crew skills.