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Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

tylersavesworld's Avatar


tylersavesworld
01.03.2012 , 02:43 PM | #501
i don't have any problems, then again i play casual.

Radagastimus's Avatar


Radagastimus
01.03.2012 , 02:44 PM | #502
While i preferr fluidic gameplay one would still ask.

If you just observe cooldowns in combat why do any nice graphics at all. Im beginning to understand a bit how this would be better version of gameplay for new PVP experience. In WOW i only do pvp for some honor to get nice equipment on the way up. I dont like its current unbalanced fast pace pvp where better geared people can 1-shot you to death and you dont have 0.1 sec time to react. In other hand i enjoy AION semi-fast paced PVP where battle between 2 may take minutes instead of stupid few seconds that it takes in WOW. WOW could also use better animatios especially on vanilla races since most of them look pretty stupid at times.

Still if animation are the way to see when its time to activate next ability, they should at least work all the time. When char stands still between attacks that should connect fluidicly together it just looks stupid and makes combat feel pretty clumpy. All in all animations seem to be too slow at times since they dont last the time of gcd, if animation is the mark where to push next button it must last until GCD has gone or GCD should not exist at all but instead only counter before next ability would be when animation stops. Also hhaving longer animations than GCD is as bad since it makes people who observe GCD like me hit button too early and wonder why nothing happens. Abilities that have animation longer than GCD should then have cast time that lasts as long as GCD which by the way also is why wow abilities seem so fluidic. Many spells have cast-times that last about as long as its animation .

Terko_Koslah's Avatar


Terko_Koslah
01.03.2012 , 02:48 PM | #503
I've come to the conclusion that this threat is about turning this game in to wow. to prove me wrong this is what i would like for xcore to do: clearly set the issues of this threat on the first page as you did in some previous post.

example:

1. global cool down triggers twice
2. cast bar not in sync with spell effect(personal note: don't know what to do about this)
etc.

Lightmgl's Avatar


Lightmgl
01.03.2012 , 02:51 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by Khoranth View Post
Yeah, see this is an example of how bioware intended combat to work, nice and slow paced.

Bioware designed combat so you press a button once, then wait for animation to end ( or almost end) and then press your next action. Nice and slow paced.

If you press a button during animation too soon, or press a button more then once, bioware punishes you with lag and unresponsive controls, cause you are not playing the game as intended by bioware.

Bioware just needs to make an official statement that combat is turn based, and they need to remove the GCD and off GCd abilities and tell players to just watch the animations, and play off of animations.

If you want a fast paced action game, SWTOR is not for you, this should be clearl and obvious by now to anyone who has followed this thread.
If they want the skill cooldown to be animation based then they need to balance the skills based on the Animations and not the GCD. Anyone who plays something with fast animations like a Merc is gonna blow someone with slow animations like a Sniper out of the water.

I guess I shouldn't care much since my class' build has very little impact from the animation delay, just the glitches where sometimes your cast time skills get locked or your channels glitch out. My actual attacks are all shorter than the GCD animation wise so spamming them is no problem at all.

Khoranth's Avatar


Khoranth
01.03.2012 , 02:51 PM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by Radagastimus View Post
While i preferr fluidic gameplay one would still ask.

If you just observe cooldowns in combat why do any nice graphics at all. Im beginning to understand a bit how this would be better version of gameplay for new PVP experience. In WOW i only do pvp for some honor to get nice equipment on the way up. I dont like its current unbalanced fast pace pvp where better geared people can 1-shot you to death and you dont have 0.1 sec time to react. In other hand i enjoy AION semi-fast paced PVP where battle between 2 may take minutes instead of stupid few seconds that it takes in WOW. WOW could also use better animatios especially on vanilla races since most of them look pretty stupid at times.

Still if animation are the way to see when its time to activate next ability, they should at least work all the time. When char stands still between attacks that should connect fluidicly together it just looks stupid and makes combat feel pretty clumpy. All in all animations seem to be too slow at times since they dont last the time of gcd, if animation is the mark where to push next button it must last until GCD has gone or GCD should not exist at all but instead only counter before next ability would be when animation stops. Also hhaving longer animations than GCD is as bad since it makes people who observe GCD like me hit button too early and wonder why nothing happens. Abilities that have animation longer than GCD should then have cast time that lasts as long as GCD which by the way also is why wow abilities seem so fluidic. Many spells have cast-times that last about as long as its animation .
Yeah, this is the main problem, the GCD ( and off GCD abilities) exist. Bioware does not want fast paced action in game. Biowae wants slow turn based combat, so you can watch the animations and slowly press 1 button at a time, as animations end.

Bioware has implemented a system of punishment for players who press buttons to fast, or players who try to use abilities when a castbar ends or when the GCD timer ends, as opposed to waiting for animations to end.

I think as players, we need to accept the combat for what it is, bioware does not consider combat broke, so they are not going to fix it.

People have been reporting these issues for years , in beta. And yet they just now give vague replies of " were looking into it" It should be clear to everyone all they are lookign into is a way to explain the combat system while keeping as many subs as possible

sabresandiego's Avatar


sabresandiego
01.03.2012 , 02:51 PM | #506
It is so easy to duplicate one of the bugs: just activate multiple abilities which are off the global cooldown at the same time. Several won't work.
Sabrewolf - Battlemaster Jedi Sentinel on The Crucible Pits

Sabrelife - Scoundrel Healer on The Crucible Pits

Khoranth's Avatar


Khoranth
01.03.2012 , 02:54 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
If they want the skill cooldown to be animation based then they need to balance the skills based on the Animations and not the GCD. Anyone who plays something with fast animations like a Merc is gonna blow someone with slow animations like a Sniper out of the water.

I guess I shouldn't care much since my class' build has very little impact from the animation delay, just the glitches where sometimes your cast time skills get locked or your channels glitch out. My actual attacks are all shorter than the GCD animation wise so spamming them is no problem at all.
PVP in this game is a side event, like space combat. They are not going to balance it.

Halacs's Avatar


Halacs
01.03.2012 , 02:55 PM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by Terko_Koslah View Post
I've come to the conclusion that this threat is about turning this game in to wow. to prove me wrong this is what i would like for xcore to do: clearly set the issues of this threat on the first page as you did in some previous post.

example:

1. global cool down triggers twice
2. cast bar not in sync with spell effect(personal note: don't know what to do about this)
etc.
This has been done. This has nothing top do with wow other then to compare smooth interface over this one. Lots of video's posted as well. BW has already started to look into it. This is still a problem, you can belive it or not. Did I mention BW is looking into it? Yeah its real.
Proper Dual spec please.
Free flying space combat
Cross server PVP, OP's, & FP's
Fix Ability Delay/misfire

darthdoll's Avatar


darthdoll
01.03.2012 , 02:56 PM | #509
I love that you added a 'professional gamers standpoint' like they're expierence makes a big difference to us all. lol, even reading how TOR "copied" wow with trinkets, the name warzones and tenacity is just really sad.

Pro gamers should better.

gurugeorge's Avatar


gurugeorge
01.03.2012 , 02:57 PM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by Radagastimus View Post
I
I myself have great issue with delays and then again on other day or time i dont. Sometimes game works just fine without any delays and responsiveness is great. Next i may change character and ability lag hits me to the face and gets horrible to play. Then again that lagging char may next day work just fine but another may have this issue. One day no char of mine has issues and some day they jave.
I agree with this. The more I play, the more I find this to be the case - it's not a problem with the system or the design, it's with uneven implementation somehow. Sometimes the combat is sweet and "in the pocket", other times there's definitely a sluggishness there.

It seems to me that there's a distinction here between people who simply want to play WoW gameplay dressed up in Star Wars graphics, and people who are willing to give a slightly different combat style a chance.

See, for me, the WoW style of animation clipping - I actually hated that. And part of the reason why I hated that was part of the reason I couldn't get into WoW, despite realising that it's a tremendously well-made product. It made the characters sort of "cheap". It was sort of ok given the overall cartoonish feel - it made the characters light-hearted and un-serious. But you can't have that same attitude to Star Wars characters - the overall fell of the game has to be more "serious", more "epic". At the end of the day, WoW's system is not the be-all-and-end all of combat styles, it's just something that some people have gotten used to. (And before anybody gives it the "But us competitive players made WoW successful!" malarkey, may I remind them of the famous statistic that the vast majority of WoW's players never get beyond lvl 35 )

I much prefer the approach in SWTOR where the animations are more integrated with the feel of combat, where I'm actually enjoying the animations and the "show" on the screen, and what the character is visibly doing feels more integrated with my button pressing.

That is ... when it works like that. And it most definitely doesn't work so sweetly all the time, and that most definitely is a problem.