Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Star Wars vs WH40K


sevenex's Avatar


sevenex
01.02.2012 , 06:13 PM | #41
Jedi and or sith vs some space marines or eldar aspect warriors or orks and so on. That would be a pretty good fight, with the force likely making the difference in a close fight.

If you introduce primarchs, daemon primarchs, greater daemons, avatars and things of that magnitude, well that's not even close. Magnus himself could probably obliterate every one of them with a thought.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
01.02.2012 , 06:15 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
It's not even possible for Star Wars to win here, it would be facing innumerable legions of forces from multiple different races, all of which have greater technology, strategical advantage and every other advantage but travel.

Now let me point something out, the only way you could defeat the Imperium of Man is by destroying either the Astronomican or the Emperor himself if that's even possible, and if you did manage that, congratulations you just made things infinitely more impossible for yourself, you've allowed Chaos to pour in and absorb the entire universe, along with every other universe there is, You have literally let Hell, four different versions of it, loose, because the Emperor and the Astronomican is the only thing stopping the Chaos powers having free reign over everything and everyone.

Star Wars simply cannot win, it's a lose/lose situation.
Maybe i need to restate this.

sevenex's Avatar


sevenex
01.02.2012 , 06:24 PM | #43
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana
It's not even possible for Star Wars to win here, it would be facing innumerable legions of forces from multiple different races, all of which have greater technology, strategical advantage and every other advantage but travel.

Now let me point something out, the only way you could defeat the Imperium of Man is by destroying either the Astronomican or the Emperor himself if that's even possible, and if you did manage that, congratulations you just made things infinitely more impossible for yourself, you've allowed Chaos to pour in and absorb the entire universe, along with every other universe there is, You have literally let Hell, four different versions of it, loose, because the Emperor and the Astronomican is the only thing stopping the Chaos powers having free reign over everything and everyone.

Star Wars simply cannot win, it's a lose/lose situation.
Maybe i need to restate this.


Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Maybe i need to restate this.
Just to play devil's advocate to a fun little discussion here. What if the Jedi were smart enough to realize that once chaos was unleashed into the universe and destroyed humanity, it would burn hot and fast and eventually burn itself out of the galaxy.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the Alpha Legion horus heresy novel. It's an interesting daydream to match the jedi up with the Cabal. It's a good fit.

Here's a good little read about it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cabal

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
01.02.2012 , 06:30 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by sevenex View Post
Just to play devil's advocate to a fun little discussion here. What if the Jedi were smart enough to realize that once chaos was unleashed into the universe and destroyed humanity, it would burn hot and fast and eventually burn itself out of the galaxy.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the Alpha Legion horus heresy novel. It's an interesting daydream to match the jedi up with the Cabal. It's a good fit.

Here's a good little read about it: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cabal
That theory was proven wrong when the Elder Grey Knights figured out, in less than a second the Warp wiped out an entire sub-sector(a small part of Khorne's realm managed to become physical in this region), the galaxy? a few minutes, the universe? maybe an hour, point being, everything would be dead, humans and non-humans, and considering the Ruinous Powers could pour into all the other dimensions, including the Star Wars universe, well you get the idea.

And they realized that because the ruinous powers would cause so much massacre in such a small window of time, they might even become self-reliant.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2012 , 06:31 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Archereon View Post
Well as I said, I'm trying to give SW a fighting chance, and the movies never said a Star Destroyer couldn't destroy a planet, they just never did.

Plus the Imperium is absolutely horrendous at logistics, in no small part to its sheer size. In a hypothetical SW 40k crossover, the Republic/Empire could have conquered or sterilized hundreds of worlds before the Imperium even realized they were under attack. This would give SW a familiarity with 40k technology, and even the opportunity to reverse engineer some of their stuff or take over the production facilities (something the Imperium would never do), which would even the weapons technology gap quickly if the Republic/Empire survived int he initial surge of Imperial forces.
yeah they did when they first get to what's left of Alderan Han Solo says "The entire starfleet couldn't destroy a planet it would take a 1,000 ships with more firepower..."

So you get some idea of how big the Empire actually is and how powerfull it is. Not as big as some of the EU books say it is. Plus it's also supposed to be a REALLY huge idea that the Empire now has a weapon that could do that. If they could already reap planetary destruction then the death star wouldn't be a huge deal.

I agree with you about the Imperiums lack of logistics but the problem is would a world fal to the empire? or would they give them a good fight. If there are Space Marines there then well forget it.

Death Star and the whole imperial fleet would be their best bet.


That or a straight ground war of Storm Troopers vs Imperial Guard.

sevenex's Avatar


sevenex
01.02.2012 , 06:35 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
That theory was proven wrong when the Elder Grey Knights figured out, in less than a second the Warp wiped out an entire sub-sector(a small part of Khorne's realm managed to become physical in this region), the galaxy? a few minutes, the universe? maybe an hour, point being, everything would be dead, humans and non-humans, and considering the Ruinous Powers could pour into all the other dimensions, including the Star Wars universe, well you get the idea.

And they realized that because the ruinous powers would cause so much massacre in such a small window of time, they might even become self-reliant.
That's interesting, I'll have to read up more about that. As a world eaters player who thinks the new GK codex is one of the worst abominations ever to be written by Mr. Ward (saying a lot) I'll just say that it serves them right! ... sorry for the bit of off topic.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2012 , 07:00 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Archereon View Post
Well as I said, I'm trying to give SW a fighting chance, and the movies never said a Star Destroyer couldn't destroy a planet, they just never did.

Plus the Imperium is absolutely horrendous at logistics, in no small part to its sheer size. In a hypothetical SW 40k crossover, the Republic/Empire could have conquered or sterilized hundreds of worlds before the Imperium even realized they were under attack. This would give SW a familiarity with 40k technology, and even the opportunity to reverse engineer some of their stuff or take over the production facilities (something the Imperium would never do), which would even the weapons technology gap quickly if the Republic/Empire survived int he initial surge of Imperial forces.
they do in A New Hope. When they reach Alderan Han says

"The Empire couldn't destroy a planet it would take a 1,000 ships and more firepower then.."


So that one line gives an indication of just how big the empire's fleet is and just how powerfull it is. The idea of the Death Star is that it was something more powerfull the universe had ever seen.

Of course authors of EU books have always tried to one up each other and make things more dire and the weapons more powerful then before so it seems more dangerous.


Thankfully due to the cannon system all these extra EU stuff is not canon so it doesn't get out of hand

But I agree with you on your other statement on the Imperium and their logistics.

DarthMoord's Avatar


DarthMoord
01.02.2012 , 07:13 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
yeah they did when they first get to what's left of Alderan Han Solo says "The entire starfleet couldn't destroy a planet it would take a 1,000 ships with more firepower..."

So you get some idea of how big the Empire actually is and how powerfull it is.
********, Han Solo is not a credible authority on either the number of ships the Empire has nor their firepowers, Han Solo is a former Stormtrooper and a smuggler at this point. This would be akin to asking a US Marine turned coyote about the capabilities of a W88 warhead which he's never even seen. In fact later in the movie someone far more qualified than Han, General Dodonna, has this to say: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet.
Quote:
Not as big as some of the EU books say it is. Plus it's also supposed to be a REALLY huge idea that the Empire now has a weapon that could do that. If they could already reap planetary destruction then the death star wouldn't be a huge deal.
Planetary destruction wasn't the problem, it's planetary shields that hold off assaults for months, years, or even indefinitely in some cases. The Death Stars purpose was to shoot through these planetary shields. Besides a planetary bombardment that atomizes everything on the surface is orders of magnitude less than popping a planet like an M67 grenade.

Quote:
I agree with you about the Imperiums lack of logistics but the problem is would a world fal to the empire? or would they give them a good fight. If there are Space Marines there then well forget it.
It takes months or years for an Imperium task force to go from one area to another, it takes the Galactic Empire less than a half hour to go from the the Core Worlds to the outer rim. All that is necessary is for the Empire to hyperspace in, blast the planetary defense forces and jump out. Hell as per the Force Unleashed novelization it only took five months for the Imperials to complete a brand new shipyard over Raxus Prime and have the first ships off the line.
See the sniper on the hill.
Rifle's loaded, he's ready to kill.
Kill the enemy, steal his soul.
So early. So early. So early in the morning.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2012 , 07:41 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthMoord View Post
********, Han Solo is not a credible authority on either the number of ships the Empire has nor their firepowers, Han Solo is a former Stormtrooper and a smuggler at this point. This would be akin to asking a US Marine turned coyote about the capabilities of a W88 warhead which he's never even seen. In fact later in the movie someone far more qualified than Han, General Dodonna, has this to say: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet.
Planetary destruction wasn't the problem, it's planetary shields that hold off assaults for months, years, or even indefinitely in some cases. The Death Stars purpose was to shoot through these planetary shields. Besides a planetary bombardment that atomizes everything on the surface is orders of magnitude less than popping a planet like an M67 grenade.
Ummm he's a credible source because that was the entire purpose of that line. George Lucas wrote that so you could understand just how powerful this weapon is.

I'm glad you brought up General Dodonna's statement because it reinforces what I said.

"The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet."

he's referring to the defensive capabilities.

1. The Main gun is not a defensive weapon. It can only be fired once every hour in A New Hope.

2. All the turbo lasers turrets and other guns on the Death Star are what is equal to half the Star Fleet. Which makes sense given the size of the death star.

3. remember he is giving a briefing on why they can't attack the Death Star with Capital ships. As it is designed to fend off large capital ships with the power of half the entire fleet. If he was just talking about the main gun then all they would have to do is fly 1 capital ship in let it get destroyed then send the rest in and have an hour to destroy the death star.

4. Your analogy is wrong for Han Solo. It would be more like a solider being asked about the capabilities of the US Army which any soldier would be able to answer that. Most citizens would be able to answer that as Military Strength is something that is WIDLY publicized. Especially in an oppressive government like THE EMPIRE!!!

Think about Soviet Russia the frequently had large parades flexing their military muscle. To show just how powerful they were. You don't think the Empire did the same? To keep the planets in check?

Serris_Kell's Avatar


Serris_Kell
01.02.2012 , 09:54 PM | #50
In general, I've always seen the Imperium of Man as a force that could hurt the glalactic power of Star Wars dearly, but would ultimately fail. Not because of the Force or Jedi/Sith or even more advanced technology, but some far more mundane.

The Star Wars universe has a massive mobility advantage, and with that the ability to maintain a horrendous logistical edge. The qualitative edge in their equipment and personnel would be more telling after several years of battle, when the Imperium is struggling to bring more massive legions of guardsmen and fleets to bear due to their slower FTL, while the SW forces can keep moving and resupplying at will.

WH40K powers would leave scars that would never really heal and be the largest war the SW powers would ever see, but they'd eventually lose.