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Fix Darth Malgus knockback mechanic


CrimsonV's Avatar


CrimsonV
01.08.2012 , 06:22 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Auilt View Post
The only reason this "requirement" is such a problem is because you've never seen it before and it's annoying you. Stop and think for a moment about how many other requirements there are to complete hard modes. No one is whining about those.
You are right when you say that there are a lot of requirements that we take as "obvious". It doesn't mean, however, that more is better.

The reason I say this is that certain classes are literally worthless against this boss. Every character can fill a role and join any group as that role, but in this particular case, certain characters are automatically out.

You might argue that other requirements work in similar ways, but my question is, does the game really need this? Some sort of new role that isn't even explicit? Requirements such as having a healer, a damage dealer and a tank actually do make sense, as you need players to be dependant on one another to create teamwork, but does this "new" requirement introduce anything new or interesting to the game? Does it encourage teamwork more? Does it make the fight more challenging and fun? No.

If anything, it makes people who don't have the proper setup frustrated, and it makes certain characters completely useless in that particular fight, no matter their specialization. If you have that class, good, the fight is a faceroll. If you don't have it, you'd better kick someone who's useless, or disband and invite somebody else next time.

I don't call this good game design.
"Apathy is death."
Imperial Agent - Loyal to the Empire
I have spent 150 for a game and I'm okay with this

Gvaz's Avatar


Gvaz
01.08.2012 , 06:27 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Auilt View Post
You need a certain setup to kill any hard mode. You have to have a healer and you pretty much have to have a tank. You also have to have good DPS or you're going to hit the enrage timer on many bosses. There are numerous requirements to beat a hard mode flashpoint. Most of them are so normal that you accept them as a foregone conclusion. This one happens to be new and unique and those who got to the end of the instance without the proper setup and were unable to complete the fight are unhappy with it. Bring the proper setup next time. All you need is two knockbacks to complete the fight. This is not an unreasonable requirement when 50% of ACs have one and one particular AC can spec into two and do it by themselves.

The only reason this "requirement" is such a problem is because you've never seen it before and it's annoying you. Stop and think for a moment about how many other requirements there are to complete hard modes. No one is whining about those.
I just did it on hard mode mode and it was easier than normal mode, and the OP was exclusively talking about normal mode.

Thanks for not seeing the forest for the trees in my OP though!

scfs's Avatar


scfs
01.08.2012 , 07:26 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Auilt View Post
You need a certain setup to kill any hard mode. You have to have a healer and you pretty much have to have a tank. You also have to have good DPS or you're going to hit the enrage timer on many bosses. There are numerous requirements to beat a hard mode flashpoint. Most of them are so normal that you accept them as a foregone conclusion. This one happens to be new and unique and those who got to the end of the instance without the proper setup and were unable to complete the fight are unhappy with it. Bring the proper setup next time. All you need is two knockbacks to complete the fight. This is not an unreasonable requirement when 50% of ACs have one and one particular AC can spec into two and do it by themselves.

The only reason this "requirement" is such a problem is because you've never seen it before and it's annoying you. Stop and think for a moment about how many other requirements there are to complete hard modes. No one is whining about those.
Because hes so different on normal mode right.

Auilt's Avatar


Auilt
01.08.2012 , 07:35 PM | #74
Remove "hard mode" and substitute "flashpoint." The point is still valid. It's an 8 page thread. If you think every post is going to be 100% on topic with your OP, you're delusional.

Whining about unique mechanics in bosses simply discourages creative boss design. How many ways do you really think there are to make things different? There are only so many mechanics you can use to make a fight fun. In the end, they all look like the same, recycled garbage. At least this is something different that takes some coordination to set up and is mildly challenging.

I, for one, do not enjoy walking into an instance and facerolling every fight because it's all tank and spank. Don't stand in fire is the same regardless of whether it's an image on the ground or a droid spitting fire in circles or something else. This is a clever, unique mechanic and it's fun to execute. You're complaining because you have to somewhat coordinate who you bring to the flashpoint. Instead of complaining about clever game design, spend your time getting the proper group together. You are sending the message that you like vanilla mechanics in every boss fight in every flashpoint.

This kind of design ought to be encouraged. If anything, you can argue for giving a knockback to more classes, but I think that would be a mistake. PvP is ridiculous enough as it is with the amount of knockbacks, stuns, roots, and grapples there currently are. Adding more makes me nauseous to think about.

Gvaz's Avatar


Gvaz
01.09.2012 , 02:05 AM | #75
8 page thread? *** It's two pages

Riddickcz's Avatar


Riddickcz
01.09.2012 , 03:03 AM | #76
OMG so many guys just dont get it, do You.

The point is that many MANY dont know this requirement for two knockbacks.
Its not advertised anywhere and there is just simply no way of knowing this unless you specifically ask for this boss tactics. But if You just want to find out Your own tactics, the problem occures.

You spend what 2-3 hours clearing this instance with bunch of nice guys, have fun, share some nice loots and finally get to last boss. Fight him well beat him to 5% and oops..cant kill him. But the problem is we dont have ANYONE with knockback. Sentinel dps, Vanguard tank, Vanguard dps and Scoundrel healer.

So at that point (you know the grapping hook is bugged and boss just keeps shooting lightnings from somewhere below..) You need to say BYE! to half of Your group and find two new members who can knockback.

The thing is that this boss on hard mode drops set chest token and obviously everybody want that.

So EITHER advertise that two knockbacks are required for this instance in quest description (although nobody really reads that, right?) or change the mechanics of this fight so it can be "Bring player" or "Bring class", NOT "Bring Advanced Class".
The crazy is strong with this one.
http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/f744bd09b5be85fa.png

CrimsonV's Avatar


CrimsonV
01.09.2012 , 03:09 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Auilt View Post
Whining about unique mechanics in bosses simply discourages creative boss design. How many ways do you really think there are to make things different? There are only so many mechanics you can use to make a fight fun. In the end, they all look like the same, recycled garbage. At least this is something different that takes some coordination to set up and is mildly challenging.
You are automatically assuming that any solution that doesn't discriminate certain classes is not creative. But it's fine really, being a creative designer means to find solutions where others see none

I, for one, found certain fights in this game to be particularly interesting, like in the Colicoid War Games or when we had to fight Darth Ikoral at the end of Red Reaper without having read the tacts, as there were none around. It was fun. And what about Mentor? It might be quite an easy fight, but every single person I know found it amazing the first time they did it. Me included. Most importantly, no one had to be left out in those fights.

Now, it is normal for a boss to become a lame faceroll once the game is older and the community and/or your guild is more experienced. That includes Malgus as well, with the only difference that if his mechanic isn't tweaked a little, it will have additional restrictions on party setups and certain players will have a much harder time to find a group to that Flashpoint, especially when most people will be familiar with how the fight works.

Quote: Originally Posted by Riddickcz View Post
So EITHER advertise that two knockbacks are required for this instance in quest description (although nobody really reads that, right?) or change the mechanics of this fight so it can be "Bring player" or "Bring class", NOT "Bring Advanced Class".
Simple solutions for a brighter tomorrow
"Apathy is death."
Imperial Agent - Loyal to the Empire
I have spent 150 for a game and I'm okay with this

Soazak's Avatar


Soazak
01.09.2012 , 04:01 AM | #78
Easy solution: Add more knockbacks into the game!
Legions of Lettow (EU PvP)

Sorc, Marauder
Guardian, Scoundrel

Korghal's Avatar


Korghal
01.09.2012 , 04:13 AM | #79
Please do not nerf these encounters, its not bugged its just you who dont understand it.

You need to place him BEFORE he becomes immune to damage. And his placement needs to be fairly near an edge. Also you need to do two reall quick pushbacks, as a gunslinger i can handle that alone. But its vital that you do it within 1-2 sec atleast, so learn to communicate.

I really like that even in 4 man not all encounters are total pushovers, if they start nerfing like blizzard did in wow its gonna ruin this fine game.

Riddickcz's Avatar


Riddickcz
01.09.2012 , 04:19 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Korghal View Post
Please do not nerf these encounters, its not bugged its just you who dont understand it.

You need to place him BEFORE he becomes immune to damage. And his placement needs to be fairly near an edge. Also you need to do two reall quick pushbacks, as a gunslinger i can handle that alone. But its vital that you do it within 1-2 sec atleast, so learn to communicate.

I really like that even in 4 man not all encounters are total pushovers, if they start nerfing like blizzard did in wow its gonna ruin this fine game.
Did You even read the replies?
Guess not.
The crazy is strong with this one.
http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-swtor/f744bd09b5be85fa.png