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An example of how unpolished endgame is


PaintOnASign's Avatar


PaintOnASign
01.09.2012 , 07:27 AM | #271
Look at us, having an adult discussion about things we're experts at thus making our opinions and expectations valid.

thejumpingsheep's Avatar


thejumpingsheep
01.09.2012 , 09:21 AM | #272
Seriously guys... its a huge MMO and only a few weeks old. Need I remind you that the biggest MMO in history launched with NO END GAME CONTENT... WoW on release was still developing their end game stuff when the game launched and told us so at launch. It wasnt a big deal because they released a couple of things a few weeks later but the game was so broken the 1st 3 weeks it didnt matter (lag made it unplayable and you couldnt even loot things during peak hours).

Give them a break. The team needs to make money to keep producing. The more the make the better the game will become. That said, the more pressing issue should be economy (we basically dont have 1) and things that factor into it like tradeskills and such. I have no doubt that they will provide more end game content, fix bugs and make the game function better all round but the economy may not be salvageable given the current mechanics.

Strikingone's Avatar


Strikingone
01.09.2012 , 09:47 AM | #273
The guy speaks the truth lol, me and a number of people i have been playing and raiding with have encountered a number of bugs and glitchs/poor design like the aove mentioned Kargas plalace, 3rd boss in EV HM we beat our heads off our desks for four hours one night and then last night we magically one shot it, (because we could actually click the frigging things).
Not to mention the bugs playing your own class, such as me playing an arsenal merc, casting unload some times, usually my rotation of mashing buttons, some times (alot of times) i click it when the gcd is coming off and it "casts: i channel it but nothing comes out. Class quest for dark side BH's not being finished for weeks after release....

Now i give them credit, they are after fixing numerous bugs some I have reported and i'm glad to see, but most of these were when I was lvling up, and most were in the pre play release period, now that i've been 50 for two weeks or more, and having dealt with bugs, problems etc lvling up including being stuck on taris for a day (log in, get kicked out over and over, later hot fixed). I'm tired of the ****, numerous problems have been reported before i've sent them in, but they seem to be taking them time.

I love it when people say cut them a break its been out X long. Sorry to say there getting money monthly now for running the game, adding content and making sure i'm having a enjoyable time. I love the game, but I won't defend it when its apparent they didn't do there research or just got lazy.

Wow did not have this many problems at launch i'm sorry, to anyone who says that. After playing EQ for six years wow fixed or improved on every aspect of EQ i hated, such as GY's when you die, ( no more corpse runs, in fear that you would lose your gear). Every class being able to solo lvl and a million other things i can include in my wall of txt. Its just that Mmo's are a industry now, a multi-million dollar industry and certain things other games implement should almost be mandatory or industry setting for any new mmo EVER to come out. IE guild banks, its a MMO! You want people to be in guilds and interact help each other out. A LFG system that works, it doesn't have to be a dungeon que finder, but something at least to find people in a organized manner by hard mode or dungeon/quest they want to do, and across planets.....Fing rediculous, AH blows too, not being able to search specific items.....not autostacking your crafting mats from your bag to your bank.....come on this **** is basic..... the game has a bright future....endless room for expansion and ideas hire some more frigging people now that your racking inthe cash and get this **** on the roll.... excuse my spelling and engrish... its pretty bad

LordArioc's Avatar


LordArioc
01.09.2012 , 10:16 AM | #274
Our first run against Soa, we wiped a bunch towards the end. Decided to give it a couple days so DPS could gear up a bit.
Next morning I log in, fly back from the Shadow, walk around the promenade a bit, and suddenly drop dead.
Lulz.

Yummymango's Avatar


Yummymango
01.09.2012 , 10:28 AM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArioc View Post
Our first run against Soa, we wiped a bunch towards the end. Decided to give it a couple days so DPS could gear up a bit.
Next morning I log in, fly back from the Shadow, walk around the promenade a bit, and suddenly drop dead.
Lulz.
^ This. Our teammates died randomly. We are just waiting for other players and suddenly people start dying.
After 1 wipe at 2nd oss in EV, suddenly we found that our speeders were no more available and trash was reset!

Funny lots of people are comparing it to launch of other MMos. Who cares?
Why BW should also launch a buggy game? And cant they even make 1 raid bug free at launch. Seriously!

Yesterday we were not able to complete hard mode EV because that third boss was bugged. I mean ***! Same goes with the hard mode Bonethrasher (similar things that OP mentioned).

No matter what people say or what excuses BW gives but it is not acceptable. They could have even released few bosses at a time and opened new wings over time.


Just FYI Rift was WAY more polished game at launch and honestly BW can learn so many good things from Rift like their custom UI, Raid frames, LFG system, Guild system, Guild perks, A proper Auction house, Server forums, Search function on forums etc.

Only those people are saying that "Wait bro, things will be fixed with time" who are not raiding yet.

Exertim's Avatar


Exertim
01.09.2012 , 10:46 AM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by thejumpingsheep View Post
Seriously guys... its a huge MMO and only a few weeks old. Need I remind you that the biggest MMO in history launched with NO END GAME CONTENT... WoW on release was still developing their end game stuff when the game launched and told us so at launch. It wasnt a big deal because they released a couple of things a few weeks later but the game was so broken the 1st 3 weeks it didnt matter (lag made it unplayable and you couldnt even loot things during peak hours).

Give them a break. The team needs to make money to keep producing. The more the make the better the game will become. That said, the more pressing issue should be economy (we basically dont have 1) and things that factor into it like tradeskills and such. I have no doubt that they will provide more end game content, fix bugs and make the game function better all round but the economy may not be salvageable given the current mechanics.
Your memory fails you. I was actually there; hit 60 a week or so after launch and was doing 40man UBRS clears by the 1st or 2nd week of December 2004. We started doing both Molten Core and Onyxia before new years. WoW released with the same amount of endgame raids (operations) as SWTOR: Molten Core (a full and complete raid) and Onyxia (a small raid with only 1 raid boss) vs Eternity Vault (a full and complete raid) and Karagga's Palace (a small raid with only 1 raid boss). To be fair, BW is adding two new flashpoints and 3-4 new bosses in Karagga with the upcoming 1.1 patch which is already bigger than the mini content patch that Blizzard put out a month after its MMO launch (Maraudon - 1 instance).

When it comes to individual instances/flashpoints, WoW released with a lot more content in that regard. However, one could make the argument that Bioware's flashpoints took more effort to create due to the nature of implementing voice acting.

In any case, most of the problems that are currently plaguing endgame can all easily be fixed within a few weeks worth of patches (perhaps less). The biggest hurdle that I foresee Bioware overcoming will be playing "catch up"; there are many modern MMO features that are simply not present at the moment, most noticeably:

* a combat log, which is huge. Forget damage meters, forget threat meters. Without a combat log, you're losing so much vital information. Combat logs would also make offsite parsing and logging available, another boon to endgame min-max players.

* addons/macros - this has been a hotly debated topic that I won't go too much into but in my opinion, it's a modern feature that a good amount of players just "expect" to be there when they come into a new MMO.

*LFD system - yet another hotly debated topic. The people against it clamor that it would destroy the community and claim that it only takes "5-10 minutes" to manually form a group when all other evidence seems to contradict this. I simply cannot think of a reason not to put this sytem in ASAP; make it draw players from your own server only if the developers fear it'll destroy the server community (which, I might add, is already fairly fragile due to the lack of server forums - another potential blunder by Bioware).

People always come up with the term "WoW clone" when it comes to SWTOR but in all honesty I could give a rat's *** about what copied what. When it all comes down to it, a game is a game and the only thing I truly care about is that it's an enjoyable, bugless one with modern MMO features.
Sakarai - 50 Jedi Sentinel
Canderous Ordo

Mynden's Avatar


Mynden
01.09.2012 , 10:46 AM | #277
Agree with all of this. End game is extremely buggy. Same issues as many others. Couldnt do hard mode EV pillars last night due to the buttons breaking. Bonethrasher was not doable because after the first attempt it spawns you in front of him where he immediately cleaves the whole raid.

And if this game is going to have enrage timers, it really needs a combat log. I took in a group of newer 50's from our guild and we couldnt do Soa due to low dps and falling behind on traps. Thats fine, I'm not complaining about tuning. But what I am complaining about is not being able to look at a log or parse and figure out who was struggling so I could coach them. You CANNOT have dps checks without a combat log. Period, end of story.
Use the link for free stuff (including a server transfer)
http://www.swtor.com/r/DMvJV3

Enginer's Avatar


Enginer
01.09.2012 , 12:03 PM | #278
I love how some defend broken content as if it is "acceptable"
Why people are quitting TOR at endgame:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHIWClqr_o

Starting to think EALouse was spot on

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
01.09.2012 , 12:08 PM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Enginer View Post
I love how some defend broken content as if it is "acceptable"
I love how some people 'forget' that this game was pushed out before it was ready due to the massive, massive demand for it. I personally think that, given it was released early, they did a great job on it.

I also love how the game has officially been out less than a month and the people who rushed to endgame are whining. Guess what? Not everyone was stupid enough to rush to endgame, so not everyone is being affected by the few bumps there are.

Here's a thought: try alting for the next month, then see where things are.
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
01.09.2012 , 12:12 PM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by Exertim View Post
In any case, most of the problems that are currently plaguing endgame can all easily be fixed within a few weeks worth of patches (perhaps less). The biggest hurdle that I foresee Bioware overcoming will be playing "catch up"; there are many modern MMO features that are simply not present at the moment, most noticeably:

* a combat log, which is huge. Forget damage meters, forget threat meters. Without a combat log, you're losing so much vital information. Combat logs would also make offsite parsing and logging available, another boon to endgame min-max players.

* addons/macros - this has been a hotly debated topic that I won't go too much into but in my opinion, it's a modern feature that a good amount of players just "expect" to be there when they come into a new MMO.

*LFD system - yet another hotly debated topic. The people against it clamor that it would destroy the community and claim that it only takes "5-10 minutes" to manually form a group when all other evidence seems to contradict this. I simply cannot think of a reason not to put this sytem in ASAP; make it draw players from your own server only if the developers fear it'll destroy the server community (which, I might add, is already fairly fragile due to the lack of server forums - another potential blunder by Bioware).

People always come up with the term "WoW clone" when it comes to SWTOR but in all honesty I could give a rat's *** about what copied what. When it all comes down to it, a game is a game and the only thing I truly care about is that it's an enjoyable, bugless one with modern MMO features.
All of these are aspects of the game that can very well destroy it if implemented improperly. BioWare can go the smart route and debate the issue internally, weigh the pros and cons and try to add the features in such a way that the negatives are minimal (or not add them at all) or they can go the route of some other MMOs and add things based on forum QQing, risking a self-destruct of their own game

This means these things will probably take some time to get put in if they get added at all
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds