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Revan .... I'm Sorry, but Really?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Revan .... I'm Sorry, but Really?

WhoDaresWins's Avatar


WhoDaresWins
01.10.2012 , 08:49 PM | #101
The Republic side of the Revan storyline takes place before those of the Empire. It's made clear several times that he "Jedi Master escaped from our prison".
The Imperial Inquisition

A EU Heavy RP Imperial Guild
"Death to the Emperor's enemies"

Mephet's Avatar


Mephet
01.11.2012 , 01:41 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by corebit View Post
Yes, I believe that Bioware/LucasArts will decide on one canon ending, just like Revan is decided to be light-side male Jedi and Bastila returned to the light side as well from KOTOR.

For one it is already confirmed that Revan does not die, so either it follows the Republic side storyline or follow that Revan vanished without being killed by the Imp players. I'm going with the Republic side as it makes more sense. Revan is rescued by the Republic elite and will aid in the eventual fall of the Empire.

Also, I think the Jedi Knight killing the Emperor will be the canon ending as well, because otherwise you will have lore issues by the time Darth Bane emerges. Killing the Emperor will trigger the beginning of the end of the Empire. The Dark Council will emerge as the top dog, but as with all Sith they will become embroiled in bitter rivalries, throwing the Empire in disarray and without real leadership.

As far as I know, there is not any disrepancies here?

---SPOILERS! BE WARNED!---

---AGAIN! SPOILERS! FOR JK QUESTLINE, SW QUESTLINE, LVL 50 FPS!---

I believe it goes like this:

Republic free Revan --> He makes for the foundry --> Imperials kill him. Revan is dead. I killed him. (And yes, I felt like I killed a part of my childhood. Damn it BW :'<)

However, BW has stated that they "might" bring Revan back. We simply cannot know for now. It is open.

About the Emperor:

Now, this is a bit difficult to decide. Gotta piece some things together and judge for ourselves (for now...):

So we know the Jedi Knight kills "the emperor". End of Knight questline.

Also, supposedly, according to the Hand of the Emperor, it was but the voice, and the true form is gathering strength.

Before either of those happened, the Emperors Hand (Not Scourge, the player) set the Voice free on Voss.

So either the Hand is lying. Which would make perfect sense. The Emperor is not really needed, as long as the belief that he is alive exists.

Or, only the Emperors Voice was killed. Which would also make perfect sense. The amount of knowledge ANYONE has on him, especially the jedi, would probably be either wrong or deviate a tad from the truth.

About Malgus and the False Emperor:

It is entirely possible that Malgus either a) Truly (and possibly, correctly) believed that the emperor was dead. or b) that he simply believed him to be dead, as the jedi does. He is either mistaken, or misleading. Neither is unthinkable. He may simply have taken the opportunity to make a powergrab. He is sith after all.

---END OF SPOILERS!---

So, all in all, I do not think we will need a canon for this. I am quite certain BW has deliberately decided to make the storylines fit so as to not invalidate our stories.

Triforcedragon's Avatar


Triforcedragon
01.11.2012 , 02:22 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Viera View Post
Really? You think Genocide = Not Sane in anyway, shape, or form?

You do realize that Genocide of the Sith Species was what the Jedi attempted to accomplish in the Great Hyperspace War? Seriously, Genocide of the Sith is old hat for the Jedi.

It also completely falls within Revan's character. Does Malachor V ring a bell? Yes, I think Revan was an awesome character but that does not mean I believe he was somehow infallable or that he should be unkillable. In the end, he was one man. Granted, I would have preferred it if Revan had simply died 300 years ago but there really isn't much room for Revan in Star Wars: The Old Republic.

It is the end of his story and the beginning of your own.

When it comes to Revan being corrupted, he took the first steps toward the Dark Side when he set foot on Malachor V. He got turned to the Dark Side, but the Emperor underestimated Revan and when Revan returned to known space he had broken free of his mental shackles. Revan began gearing up for war against the Empire, and felt that the only way to do so was from the Dark Side.



"Who I am is not important, my message is." ―Revan

"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone." ―Darth Malak

"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." ―Kreia
Thank you, I had been trying to argue it was not a leap for Revan to commit genocide, but I had forgotten about Malachor V, thanks for reminding me.

Though i would not say Revan was preparing to fight the Empire using the darkside. As he himself says he was both Jedi and Sith and by the end he was something entirely unqiue drawing upon both sides of the force.

This is a credit i have no problem giving him even if I believe many overestimate his abilities.
"Heroes get remembered, but legends never die."

Wikiheretic's Avatar


Wikiheretic
01.11.2012 , 02:30 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVarrak View Post
"The Foundry was just a setback!!" opening line of the upcoming expansion pack Wrath of Revan.
YES. This exactly.
Not a CE owner. I have a anyway.

blindd's Avatar


blindd
01.11.2012 , 02:52 AM | #105
I think you're all forgetting, Revan is only level 20 at his max and the Imps who kill him are around 37!

(This is a reference to the original KOTOR, not a troll post)


In all seriousness, couple points to bring out:

- The Emperor didn't "turn" Revan to the darkside, as some people have stated, that's not what the book stated either. Revan and Malak were on the path to the dark side since The Mandalorian Wars, probably at Malachor V. When they met and challenged the Emperor, he dominated their minds and made them his puppets, they had already become "sith". However, at some point in time during their quest for the Star Forge, they broke free of the Emperor's domination and began to believe they had been acting on their own will.

- HK-47 did not die, he's in "The Battle of Ilum" and SW: Galaxies, which has been said multiple times.

- This is our story, not Revan's. Revan laid the groundwork for TOR, which is why he's in it, which is why TOR is essentially KOTOR III: Revan was the one who originally discovered the Sith Empire, and has succeeded in suppressing the Great War for 300 years. Even though it may not feel like it, KOTOR II and TOR are all about Revan's legacy. All throughout TOR Revan's name pops up, from Revanite cults on Dromund Kaas, the heart of the empire, to his descendent Sateale, the whole series is based around Revan and his legacy. We are simply the new generation, and as much as I'm sure they'll bring Revan back, I'm perfectly content with the way he went down.


Also, "Revan" was a terrific read, I highly recommend it. I find it funny at the people who enjoyed KOTOR and then call "Revan"s author horrible, considering Drew wrote KOTOR as well -_-, it's his story, and he ended it perfectly.

Deviss's Avatar


Deviss
01.11.2012 , 05:12 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by blindd View Post
Also, "Revan" was a terrific read, I highly recommend it. I find it funny at the people who enjoyed KOTOR and then call "Revan"s author horrible, considering Drew wrote KOTOR as well -_-, it's his story, and he ended it perfectly.
This.
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Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
01.11.2012 , 05:32 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDalton View Post
What flashpoint is this and what level?
Its called "the foundry". Empire side. I dont remember the level but it was around 35 iirc.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

DrMelhattan's Avatar


DrMelhattan
01.11.2012 , 03:27 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Viera View Post
Really? You think Genocide = Not Sane in anyway, shape, or form?

You do realize that Genocide of the Sith Species was what the Jedi attempted to accomplish in the Great Hyperspace War? Seriously, Genocide of the Sith is old hat for the Jedi.

It also completely falls within Revan's character. Does Malachor V ring a bell? Yes, I think Revan was an awesome character but that does not mean I believe he was somehow infallable or that he should be unkillable. In the end, he was one man. Granted, I would have preferred it if Revan had simply died 300 years ago but there really isn't much room for Revan in Star Wars: The Old Republic.

It is the end of his story and the beginning of your own.

When it comes to Revan being corrupted, he took the first steps toward the Dark Side when he set foot on Malachor V. He got turned to the Dark Side, but the Emperor underestimated Revan and when Revan returned to known space he had broken free of his mental shackles. Revan began gearing up for war against the Empire, and felt that the only way to do so was from the Dark Side.



"Who I am is not important, my message is." ―Revan

"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone." ―Darth Malak

"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." ―Kreia
You guys missed the point of what I'm saying completely.

Just because it's a goal of a group of people who are normally considered good guys does NOT mean it's NOT crazy.

Genocide is wiping out an entire race of people. That's crazy. It doesn't matter WHO does it or for WHAT reason. It's. STILL. CRAZY. Period. End of story.

Even if genocide falls within someone's character, which I didn't say that it doesn't. IT'S STILL CRAZY!

Even if it is the most efficient way to end a galactic war. STILL CRAZY!

If you truly believe otherwise and say that genocide is a legitimate, logical, and totally okay means to an end, then I fear for you and I fear for humanity. Truly.

Malachor V was 300 years and many plot points ago. Revan tried to commit genocide then (as crazy then as it is now!) and look how well it turned out for him. Don't you think that, 300 years and several character arcs later, he'd have learned from his mistakes? Don't you feel a little bit cheated that he is right back where he started, having learned absolutely nothing from his cycle of corruption and redemption? That after all these years, he still fails to realize that wiping out an entire race of people based solely on their genetic ancestry is not the answer? I thought it was canon that Revan, after having his mind wiped and returning to the Light Side, had a concern for life Darth Revan did not previously have. HK-47 states as much during KOTOR, even going so far as to say that he is much improved now. But now with this Flashpoint, we're back to square one - genocide and total disregard for life.

That's why I feel it was disrespectful to his character to have him go out that way. I never entertained the illusion that he was infallible, because that's what made him interesting. But to completely backpedal his genuine character development...that's downright shameful.

I would have MUCH preferred a low-key, bittersweet but ultimately tragic ending to his tale. There was really no need to revert him back to his borderline megalomaniacal ways.

I also would've preferred it if we never heard him speak or saw his face (or if he wasn't in the game at all), and that he remained a tragic and mysterious figure. He was so hyped up in most fans' minds, nothing they rendered could have ever lived up to our expectations, so why show him at all?

Avenox's Avatar


Avenox
01.12.2012 , 10:52 AM | #109
I don't like Revan and never did.

Kraklin's Avatar


Kraklin
01.12.2012 , 04:38 PM | #110
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't believe Revan should have been in this game at all. TOR is all about telling the story of the player character, and having them rescue (Republic) or kill (Sith) Revan seems, to me, like a cheap way of trying to validate the character's own status. But what bothers me the most about it is the story behind it. KOTOR was great and established a lot about the character. In TSL I know they needed a reason for him not to be around but I felt like the reason concocted for him was weak and totally absurd. The course of action that he took made no sense to me. I figure it's because they wanted to hit holiday sales so badly they just wrote the first thing that came to mind to be done with it.

Honestly, I think the only reason he even appears in the game is due to his popularity and Bioware is gonna keep trying to pull him out as a way of retaining fans. They can call this canon all they want, to me it smells like crappy fanfiction.