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The Expanded Universe ???? LOL ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Expanded Universe ???? LOL ?

Stranger_D's Avatar


Stranger_D
01.08.2012 , 01:17 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Walldude View Post
Not to mention Zahn has been writing the occasional book. And that man has a grasp of the characters in the SW universe.
He's better than other writer but he's partly responsible for leather pantsing Empire and make Alliance weak.

Parakarry's Avatar


Parakarry
01.08.2012 , 06:56 AM | #62
if you assassinate a president, the government doesn't cease to exist.
if you blow up a weapons facility, the military doesn't fall apart.

assuming that an entire body of government, spanning countless star systems, would just go *poof* because the leader and a space station were taken out is just stupid.
Bioware promised me Legos. I got Mega Bloks.

starbuckone's Avatar


starbuckone
01.08.2012 , 07:22 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Beastorz View Post
Heh, I won't lie some of the things mentioned are quite silly (Dark Empire stuff with cloned Palpatine, etc.) but for the most part I find the newer series of books more interesting and much less far fetched. New Jedi Order and everything following.

Plus, have you looked at the "Old Republic" era beyond this game? There's some pretty neat content there as well.
actualy it's not that silly if you think about it. Your an evil dictator and don't know if you'll be overthrown and you have acess to a cloneing device you would use it to hopefully retain power. After all remember the clone wars?
█!█!█!█![]!█!!!██████████████████████████████████████)

WerniesSturm's Avatar


WerniesSturm
01.08.2012 , 07:48 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Parakarry View Post
if you assassinate a president, the government doesn't cease to exist.
if you blow up a weapons facility, the military doesn't fall apart.

assuming that an entire body of government, spanning countless star systems, would just go *poof* because the leader and a space station were taken out is just stupid.
You got me there, that is why I started this discussion... and I have noticed that lots of people very much like what is called 'The Thrawn Trilogy' .

My first thought went out when Adolf and Saddam were killed or fled, the armies surrendered not long after, however, the same armies were allready decimated and had no chances of winning.

The Imperial Armed Forces waging battle at the moon of Endor were only a small portion of the total Imperial Forces. So it would be illogical that the bulk of the Imperial Forces with it's commanders - still in full battle strength - would surrender immediately after Palpatine destroyed.

So I'll be keeping my eye out for the Thrawn Trilogy and read those novels.

Someone before mentioned that there is a Han Solo storyline, I'll be looking for that one as well.

The only novels that I have been reading are 'The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader' and some other one about Obi-Wan, I enjoyed them.

Still, for ME -let me make that clear, in my opinion- the Yuuzhong whatever, Darth Cadeus, and a muliple Coning Emperor who suddenly can trigger Force Storms and decimate whole planets and fleets is still crap for me.

Thank you for the information all, I will be watching this thread with great interest.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.08.2012 , 01:48 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by WerniesSturm View Post
You got me there, that is why I started this discussion... and I have noticed that lots of people very much like what is called 'The Thrawn Trilogy' .

My first thought went out when Adolf and Saddam were killed or fled, the armies surrendered not long after, however, the same armies were allready decimated and had no chances of winning.
.
Now I see where your comming from. Adalf and Saddam, made the government and Military be surrounded by them.

Do you see what I am saying?

Palpatine didn't make the entire Imperial Government surround, though they still followed his commands. After conquering most of the galaxy, he stepped down and let Imperial Politics and Vader take control. Though he was still the almighty man.

Adolf and Saddam made the military and government need them. Or else they would fall.

I'm not sure if that makes sense, I'm not good at wording explanations.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

MrGarak's Avatar


MrGarak
01.12.2012 , 11:34 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by WerniesSturm View Post
I'm a huge SW fan (movies)
Since Im playing SWTOR, I wanted to do a little research on the old republic, very interesting indeed.
In the past I also encountered names like Ben Skywalker and such so I wondered what happened after the Battle of Endor, the chosen one fullfilling and the Sith destroyed and peace forever.

But seriously ***, what idiot (IMO) came up with whatever happened after. Stole this from another website:

Stole this from another site:

Undoing the Ending of Return of the Jedi

Everything had wrapped up nicely at the end of Return of the Jedi. We see the Imperial menace defeated over the forest moon of Endor by the likes of Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo, Chewbacca the Wookiee and Lando "The Last Black Man in the Galaxy" Calrissian.

The Emperor's plan to recruit Luke to the dark side failed, and Darth Vader redeemed himself by dunking the raisin-faced bastard into the reactor core of the Death Star like Lebron James. Vader, electrocuted and hairless--and decidedly not James Earl Jones--died and the Death Star exploded, effectively wiping out the Sith, releasing their chokehold on the Galaxy and infuriating whoever was the lienholder on the destroyed battle station.

Simultaneous celebrations were held on countless planets because evidently news travels fast through the infinite expanse of *********** space. Our heroes dance with some teddy bears and the credits roll.

Not so fast:

That is, the Empire keeps rolling right along, imposing space-tyranny on all who stand in their way.

And the thing is, it's hard to argue with the idea.

Neither the Emperor nor the Death Star had ever been a threat to the Rebellion, so, you know, **** those first three movies. The Imperials had been able to control the Galaxy without a Death Star for a couple of decades, relying instead on fleet warfare and ground support for good old fashioned genocide. As for the Emperor, does killing the leader of a tyrannical government with a powerful and loyal army immediately end the entire conflict?


According to the majority of the books and comics set after the original trilogy, with the Emperor gone, there were hundreds of Admirals, Generals and Politicians who vied for control of the Galaxy. Without a universally accepted leader, the Empire spiraled into a civil war.

The Rebellion is still, well, a Rebellion, which means it still has to gain victory over the remaining Imperials to win, who are in turn fighting amongst themselves. And so, the Skywalker family, which you may remember as being the entire point of the Star Wars saga, fades into the background as we watch the Rebels continue to fight two different Empires for 20 more years. During that time it's fair to assume billions more people died and trillions more words of poorly written dialog were spoken.


Cloning the emperor


Oh, hey, speaking of the dead Emperor, he is dead, right? After all, Darth Vader basically sacrificed himself to kill the man and wipe out this dark threat to The Force for all time.

Yes, that sure was a meaningful sacrifice Anakin made to redeem himself and save countless lives.

Not so fast...


Once more, you can see why they did it. You need a villain. And if George Lucas had written the sequel stories, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have done the same, after he contorted every prequel storyline to shoehorn in as many OT characters as he could.

In this storyline, Palpatine, secure in his new corporeal digs, proceeds to use a variety of nifty tactics that nearly annihilate the Rebels. The reasons why he waited until after his death to employ these tactics are beyond even the wisest of us.

To make things worse, Luke Skywalker, forgetting absolutely everything about his dad's story arc, thought the best way to deal with this threat was by becoming Palpatine's new apprentice. Although he tries to sabotage the Empire's efforts from the inside, he eventually succumbs to the Dark Side, presumably because the temptation of paid vacation and a dental plan proved to be too great.


After Luke essentially becomes the Sega Genesis to Vader's Master System, Leia comes to her brother's rescue and eventually redeems him (you may remember this as the exact same plot of the original trilogy). Unfortunately it's already too late for most of the galaxy, as the Empire has already managed to decimate entire worlds without a Death Star and is within sight of total victory (evidently "total victory" means "killing every last mother****er in space").

Palps is eventually killed by Empatojayos Brand, an ancient Jedi better known as Master Desperate Plot Device, thus ending the crisis and allowing the Dark Empire series to stop wasting our gosh darn time.

Adding a bunch of new jedi


Pretty much the entire point of the original trilogy was that Luke Skywalker, son of Darth Vader, is the last hope for the Jedi Order and the Galaxy. You know, the other Jedi having been ruthlessly hunted down and destroyed by the Empire and all.

The only exceptions are Obi Wan, whose force powers seem to have degenerated into keeping an immaculately trimmed beard in the middle of the desert, and Yoda, who seems to have gone so ******* insane that all he can do is talk like Super Grover in cryptic nonsensical jibber-jabber and lift **** out of bogs with his mind.

With only these three superpowered individuals left, the future of the Galaxy seems bleak.

Not so fast...


One thing the good guys have to do to deal with the post-Death Star Empire is enlist the help of Jedi. Lots of them. In "sequel" comics like Dark Forces, much of the plot involves enlisting the help of these guys that are just hanging around in remote parts of the galaxy.

As it turns out, contrary to popular belief (a term which here means "what the films specifically told us in no uncertain terms"), the Jedi were not entirely wiped out but merely went into hiding. Again, we understand it's not Star Wars without Jedi and you can't wait for an army to be rebuilt from Luke and Leia's inbred children. The writers only had so many options.

But are we really to believe that these characters just sat on their fat asses, doing nothing to help while their Jedi brethren were getting thrown in the dumpster? That seems just a little out of character for the Galaxy's "Protectors of Freedom."


Superweapons That Make the Death Star Look Like a Pile of ****


All right, so maybe you think we were taking it too far when we said destroying the Death Star(s) didn't really change anything. After all, clearly these weapons were taking the Empire's power to a new level. The Death Stars were to be a planet-destroying game-changer, forever cementing their hold on the galaxy.

So if nothing else, taking them out dealt a serious blow to their plans.

Not so Fast...

Well, in the course of the Extended Universe stories, dozens of other, more powerful superweapons are introduced, some so over-the-top that, in retrospect, taking out the Death Star should've been right below "Remember to take Mittens to the vet" on the Webbel's To-Do List.

And some of them get ridiculous. Evidently the Empire set aside a little too much funding for the Board of Unnecessary Destruction.
The Galaxy Gun is a great example.


Although its name lacks the same pant****-inspiring sound as the Death Star, we are told it is a lot more powerful. It was first used during the reborn Emperor's campaign against the Rebels (see Cloning the Emperor, above), and during its operational history it destroyed more worlds than the Death Star. Making that count at least... two.

There is also the Sun Crusher, which we have to admit is the most ****** name ever given to any weapon, ever.


To sum it up, it basically does what its name suggests, firing a bunch of missiles into a star and causing it to collapse and go supernova, destroying the entire surrounding system by way of make-believe science.

Unfortunately, we already saw the planet-busting ultra gun in two out of the three original movies, so you can probably guess how the storylines involving both of these turned out (if you said "the Rebels enact a daring offensive that destroys the weapon," you are correct).

Creating a new sith empire:

Of course, even though the Emperor comes back and the Empire rises again, the webbels do eventually prevail. Sure, it took a couple of decades after the events of the OT, but we at least know that one day a gray-haired Han Solo and crew got to see their dream of an evilless galaxy come true.

Not So Fast...

According to the Star Wars Legacy comics, 100 years after the original trilogy, the galaxy has supposedly seen several major wars and enough political maneuvering to turn the franchise into a Tom Clancy novel. During that century, the Rebellion formed into the New Republic and then into the Galactic Alliance, eventually making peace with the Empire and allying with them on several occasions.

Luke Skywalker, again demonstrating his complete and total dementia, forgets every single detail about his father's life and builds a new Jedi Order that encourages emotional ties and marriages. Han Solo and Princess Leia have three kids, one of whom turns into a Sith, and Luke has a son with some redhead.


All of a sudden the Sith reappear. Again.

And, again, the Empire declares war on the Galactic Alliance, easily crushing their allied nuts and installing their Sith leader as Emperor of the Galaxy. Again.

They go on to lead a surprise attack against the Jedi, killing most of them and forcing the rest into hiding.

Again.

Meanwhile the scattered remnants of the Alliance begin a guerilla war against their much more powerful adversary while Luke's son, a young Jedi named Skywalker, must use his powerful Force abilities to try and destroy the evil Sith Emperor.


Our more clever readers may have noticed a small curiosity regarding this storyline: It is, word for word, the exact *********** plot of the entire Star Wars saga. Not just a recycled plot device like a new superweapon (see above), but the whole gosh darn plot.

...........

What about Darth Maul with robot legs ?

The yuuzong vong or something like that, the only thing that is not connected to the force ( all things are? )
This is so so so soooo very true. I like a lot of the EU, such as the Thrawn books, even the New Jedi Order. But holy crap, some of it is retarded beyond description. The Dark Empire series and the Legacy comics are both so idiotic and heedless of the whole point OF Star Wars it's almost offensive. Seriously, Lucas said that the whole prophecy about Anakin meant "no more Sith". How hard is that for people to understand? There are no more Sith. EVER. Come up with new bad guys already. Unfortunately, a lot of the EU books and comics read more like published fan fictions with authors trying to retell the same story over and over again than they do like serious stories.


Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Now I see where your comming from. Adalf and Saddam, made the government and Military be surrounded by them.

Do you see what I am saying?

Palpatine didn't make the entire Imperial Government surround, though they still followed his commands. After conquering most of the galaxy, he stepped down and let Imperial Politics and Vader take control. Though he was still the almighty man.

Adolf and Saddam made the military and government need them. Or else they would fall.

I'm not sure if that makes sense, I'm not good at wording explanations.
What exactly is your basis for all this? There's nothing to suggest the Emperor "stepped down". He is the absolute center of the whole thing. I'm not trying to be confrontational; I just don't see where you're getting this idea from.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.13.2012 , 03:23 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by MrGarak View Post
This is so so so soooo very true. I like a lot of the EU, such as the Thrawn books, even the New Jedi Order. But holy crap, some of it is retarded beyond description. The Dark Empire series and the Legacy comics are both so idiotic and heedless of the whole point OF Star Wars it's almost offensive. Seriously, Lucas said that the whole prophecy about Anakin meant "no more Sith". How hard is that for people to understand? There are no more Sith. EVER. Come up with new bad guys already. Unfortunately, a lot of the EU books and comics read more like published fan fictions with authors trying to retell the same story over and over again than they do like serious stories.




What exactly is your basis for all this? There's nothing to suggest the Emperor "stepped down". He is the absolute center of the whole thing. I'm not trying to be confrontational; I just don't see where you're getting this idea from.
Dark empire was Lucas' idea.

Gun_Slinger's Avatar


Gun_Slinger
01.13.2012 , 12:52 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiars View Post
All that you are pointing out is that much of the support for the post RotJ EU stories try to inject some reality into the Star Wars Universe. That reality being that with the Number 1 and number 2 from the Empire gone that empire simply surrenders.

Lucas himself stated that he envisioned three movie trilogies. The first trilogy was the rise of the Empire. The second trilogy was the GCW. The final trilogy was about the restoration of the Republic. So from the very beginning the end of RotJ was not the end of the Empire, it was the beginning of the end.

Like every story the post RotJ EU stories do have problems with recycling story themes and recycling defeated/dead enemies. DC comics and the Star Trek novels are as bad about this as the SW EU stories. While not good, it happens.

I enjoy some of the EU stories and hate others. But Lucas accepting them as Star Wars Canon is totally different and unless you really want to say that Lucas has no concern for Star Wars and is only interested in the money. So unless you are ready to go that far and ignore Canon, they are part of the SW universe, even if we do not like them.
This....

.....Except that Lucas has stated in an interview how he regards the EU novels. I believe it was something like "They are nice and all, but they aren't a part of my universe." Even though he licensed and approved them all, and forbade them from killing luke. Lucas is a complete idiot.

@OP: I think the EU novels are probably ALL better than the prequels, with the exception of reborn emperor...and young jedi (blech). But Thrawn books, Jedi Academy Trilogy, tales from the empire/republic/cantina/jabbas palace, NJO, first 4 books of rogue squadron were all fantastic. Read them before you spout of your mostly ignorant wall of text.
"It's a trap!" "Your tastebuds can't repel firepower of this magnitude!"

Gun_Slinger's Avatar


Gun_Slinger
01.13.2012 , 12:59 PM | #69
Oh, also, I noticed in your post you reveal a complete ignorance of how jedi are made: i.e. random flukes. They don't go around recruiting JEDI they go around recruiting FORCE SENSITIVE individuals and TRAINING them as Jedi. So, again, you fail at Star Wars.
"It's a trap!" "Your tastebuds can't repel firepower of this magnitude!"

Xilax's Avatar


Xilax
01.13.2012 , 02:03 PM | #70
Exelent post.

To me Star Wars is what George Lucas created, everything else, comics, radio shows, fan created stories, games such as kotor and other spinn-offs are QUASI LORE. This quasi lore is to Star Wars what sarah connor chronicles are to Terminator, what avp is to Alien and predator-movies and so on.
Quasi stuff not really related to the originals. the entire game is Quasi/fake/another version of Star Wars.

There are no real limits on the lore, you could come up with anything like that your character was born inside a star outside this galaxy far far away and that you sprung from a breed of human-droid relationships that learnt how to be force sensitive by reading stars at night. No one could argue with you. Since there are no real valid lore attached to the any of the quasi versions.