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Obi-Wan .VS. Anakin


ObiWanBaikonur's Avatar


ObiWanBaikonur
01.04.2012 , 02:03 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Tswarm View Post
Obi-Wan basically played Anakin through most of that fight. The whole philosophy behind form 3 is the block, deflect, and give ground until the opponent slips up and presents an opportunity. There's another aspect to it though that Kenobi effectively uses on Anakin at Mustafar and that is to exploit the opponent's aggression in subtle but advantageous ways.

Notice how Kenobi knocks Anakin's saber into the control that opens the door to the outside of the mining facility giving Obi-Wan more ground to retreat to? How he uses Anakin's aggressive drive in trying to push his lightsaber into Obi-Wan's face as momentum to flip Anakin and thus get out of the hold? Kenobi uses the environment and his opponent's state of mind against him and Anakin in his all consuming rage didn't see it until it was too late.
I can't wait to rewatch these scenes with this in mind. Maybe I'm an Obi-Wan "Fanboy" (I don't care, what's not to love??), but this makes perfect sense and just deepens my admiration for the guy.

aka_matrix_pwner's Avatar


aka_matrix_pwner
01.04.2012 , 02:08 PM | #52
"is the darker side stronger?"

"No! faster only, and more seductive"

-Luke & Yoda


Another thing, Obi-Wan only came out on top because Anakin was blinded by his rage. he made an obvious mistake, which Obi-Wan used to his advantage.

Never, ever underestimate your opponent.

Fox_McCloud's Avatar


Fox_McCloud
01.04.2012 , 02:58 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by IAJAKI View Post
Anakin had more talent
Obi-Wan had more skill
Wrong

Anakin had more talent and skill.
Obi-Wan had more experience.

To put it into gamer terms.. Anakin's starter stats were the highest of any jedi or sith that had ever lived, but he was still low level, and while he had gained many levels under obi-wans tutelage, Obi-Wan still had a very large level gap and so that + temporary offensive buff from being on a ledge allowed him the win. Anakin was dumb and should have max leveled first, then he could have beat anyone.

Lord_Butcher's Avatar


Lord_Butcher
01.04.2012 , 04:20 PM | #54
''It's over Anakin, i have the high ground!''

Ah, the use of reversed Duno Möch. Making your opponent doupt himself or distract e.t.c.

Basicly, one could say that he taunted Anakin into rage(purpously or not?) which caused him to enter a state of rage where he was not thinking, obvously he didn't want to, he probubly wanted to make it clear that if he makes his move he is about to do, he will loose. A warning. Whilst this had the opposing effect. Anakin, being already in a great deal of rage gives into it fully, maybe he believed the taunting was a way to say that Anakin was weak or anything(?), he wouldn't stand it so he will show the evil Obi-Wan, and he might believeing his power is so great that Obi won't succeed in his tactics the arrogant he is, he doesn't think clearly, he underrestimates his opponent, and Obi-Wan is forced to make his incapaciting move on Anakin who is charging right for him.

Maybe he was becoming so arrogant because of the Dark Side that he believed that it doesn't matter what Obi-Wan will do, he will beat him still?

Anakin is so filled with rage that he basicly doesn't think clearly about what he is doing, that coupled with his arrogant attitude, his way of thinking he is the best and the effect of Obi-Wan's (failed) Duno Möch caused him to enter a state of rage that leaves him vulnerable, an weak point Obi-Wan exploits.

Notice him Darth Vader doesn't jump after Luke in the earlier movies and instead walks up to him closely and also throws his Lightsaber instead of jumping against him? He learned his lesson.

Anakin would though had won in the long run i believe. Imagine if he had been allowed to learn Juyo form instead and not forbidden to learn it.

Durzaka's Avatar


Durzaka
01.04.2012 , 05:00 PM | #55
I dont know if it was mentioned (not gonna read) but Obi-wan also had the more suited lightsaber style for this kind of combat, and he was a master of that style (name escapes me).

EDIT: read the thread, Soresu that was it. My post now has no purpose, people on this page stated it much more clearly.
Durzaka Retribution

LordMerrick's Avatar


LordMerrick
01.04.2012 , 05:17 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Jackbency View Post
Perhaps fighting someone is a complex and highly contextual situation, and not simply a matter of who in your mind has more power. Life is not Dragonball.

Oh gee, very insightful, astute, and sarcastic of you. Why are you playing this silly game? Isnt it beneath you?

Amanda_C's Avatar


Amanda_C
01.04.2012 , 05:28 PM | #57
First of all Dooku incapacitated both Jedi temporarily but chose to eliminate Obi Wan and deal with Anakin. Perhaps to eliminate the great long term threat? Also, Obi Wan was attacking from the front in that scene and Anakin was attacking from behind when both Jedi were thrown to the ground. Obi Wan was in the more dangerous position. Maybe the defensive master was trying to work in tandem with the more offensive minded jedi to eliminate the sith lord?

Also, Anakin was obviously conflicted in the episode 3 battle with Obi Wan. Clearly, there was still good in him. He was definitely not fighting with a clear mind. Obi Wan was fighting with a single minded determination to end the destruction Anakin was causing. There is a huge different in the frames of mind between the two jedis at that point.

So was Anakin overall a better fighter? Probably. Was Obi Wan the better Jedi overall? I would say so. In contests of skill does the better team/player/fighter always win? Of course not. Many factors play into who is victorious and who is defeated other than skill alone.

Lord_Butcher's Avatar


Lord_Butcher
01.04.2012 , 05:29 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Durzaka View Post
I dont know if it was mentioned (not gonna read) but Obi-wan also had the more suited lightsaber style for this kind of combat, and he was a master of that style (name escapes me).

EDIT: read the thread, Soresu that was it. My post now has no purpose, people on this page stated it much more clearly.
Obi-Wan uses Soresu. Even though it is powerfull when a master uses it (can potentionally allmost make the user allmost invincible) a master in Soresu can still be defeated just like any other form used to it's maximum. It is said that the ferocity form Juyo which is the most dangerous form can break a master Soresu user's defences.

EDIT: i meant Destroy in ''break''.

Durzaka's Avatar


Durzaka
01.04.2012 , 07:54 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Butcher View Post
Obi-Wan uses Soresu. Even though it is powerfull when a master uses it (can potentionally allmost make the user allmost invincible) a master in Soresu can still be defeated just like any other form used to it's maximum. It is said that the ferocity form Juyo which is the most dangerous form can break a master Soresu user's defences.

EDIT: i meant Destroy in ''break''.

Anakin didnt use Juyo though, he used Form V: SHien/Djem So
Durzaka Retribution

LordMerrick's Avatar


LordMerrick
01.04.2012 , 08:58 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Amanda_C View Post
First of all Dooku incapacitated both Jedi temporarily but chose to eliminate Obi Wan and deal with Anakin. Perhaps to eliminate the great long term threat? Maybe the defensive master was trying to work in tandem with the more offensive minded jedi to eliminate the sith lord?

I dont understand what any of this has to do with anything? The fact remains that anakin defeated dooku, regardless of who dooku considered to be the greater threat. And obi-wan was neutralized regardless of what strategy he was utilizing. If not for Ani, obi-wan would have been dead right there........**** yet again***.

Quote: Originally Posted by Amanda_C View Post

Also, Anakin was obviously conflicted in the episode 3 battle with Obi Wan. Clearly, there was still good in him. He was definitely not fighting with a clear mind. Obi Wan was fighting with a single minded determination to end the destruction Anakin was causing. There is a huge different in the frames of mind between the two jedis at that point.

People keep saying this as if Obi-wan wasnt conflicted. He told yoda that he flat out refused to kill Anakin. He begged anakin not to jump because he didnt want to have to cut anakin. He tried to give away the advantage that ultimately saved his life. I would go so far as to say that Obi-wan was even more conflicted than Anakin. Ani had no problem killing dozens of innocent children, and had managed to convince himself that obi wan stole padme away from him. He also believed Obi-wan had come to kill him. He said as much to padme. Ani was in a blind rage while Obi-wan remained cool headed. I dont understand why everyone shows so very little recognition of the conflict within obi-wan.

Quote: Originally Posted by Amanda_C View Post
In contests of skill does the better team/player/fighter always win? Of course not. Many factors play into who is victorious and who is defeated other than skill alone.
I completely agree with you. I am trying to root out what those factors are
As far as I can see the best answer is twofold: that Obi-wan knew anakin inside out, and that obi-wan played a very defensive and patient game, knowing it would not take ani long to get impatient and make a huge mistake. That and the fact that somebody needed to put ani in a vader suit and the only jedi left were obi and yoda....so from a writer's perspective there was no other possible way things could have played out.