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Crafting Broken?


GamerInDallas's Avatar


GamerInDallas
12.31.2011 , 03:27 AM | #1
Is crafting broken? And if so, why?

It seems no one is interested in buying anything. A lot of resources are selling for ridiculously high prices. But no one seems interested in buying the end product.

It costs a LOT of money to gather if you send your companions on missions to do it. Yet, the resources they gather seem to be worth about 1/4 the cost of gathering them. So, you pay other people for the privledge of throwing your money away. (Well you DO gain crafting levels, but that seems to be just to throw your money away at a higher level.)

And if you just buy the resources, they seem ridiculously priced and there's not a lot of interest in the finished products you craft anyway.

I'm playing on the RP servers (Shien mainly) and I'm just not seeing ANY value to crafting. I mean, I can't even make stuff for myself, because I have to reach a high enough level in crafting to supply myself, but can't get there because crafting is not only NOT PROFITABLE but isn't even something where you can break even. I've dumped several thousand credits (which I can barely afford) into crafting and have seen basically nothing in return.

I'm I missing something here? What is the problem? Is it simply that crafted items have no value because the MOBs drop better stuff than can be crafted (or at least stuff that's good enough that it's a waste of time to buy crafted items)? My highest level character is only 15th, but so far I haven't had a huge need to go buy crafted items in order to solo.

phfct's Avatar


phfct
12.31.2011 , 03:35 AM | #2
Dude the game is out like 15 days orso and you already say something is broken. Most people are still in the process of leveling up their char's.

Only a few people at this time are bothered with moneymaking and buying gear! Mostly they buy gear to upgrade companions!

I have np selling the goods i craft.

And youre right about the mobs they drop ****loads of gear. But blue/ epic gear Sells quit good!

Just a reminder low-level character dont feel the need to buy gear because they dont have credits!

----------------------------------

Dont know if you now this but if you reverse engineer the crafted green gear you have for a change to get the schematic of the blue equivelant .

Hope this helps a bit
High till i Die


Ealhdun's Avatar


Ealhdun
12.31.2011 , 03:37 AM | #3
With the exception of raids, mobs actually don't drop better stuff than the purples you make with crafting. (especially if you can augment it)

However at lower levels selling crafted goods is rather pointless. Purples are way to expensive for the time you'll be using them (unless you just make them yourself on a rich character, and even then getting purples can be time consuming). And the majority of blues can be replaced for things you buy with world tokens.

On the other hand for large guilds one person getting all purples to distribute to the guild could be worthwhile.

Also GTN is a bit annoying.

Liralen's Avatar


Liralen
12.31.2011 , 04:08 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by phfct View Post

I have np selling the goods i craft.
And making a profit? Profit = selling the item for more than if you sold the resources used to make it instead, minus the opportunity cost of acquiring the resources instead of killing stuff (measured by credits obtained and selling that loot, which isn't the full value since you obtain a lot more in the way of exp, faction, quest rewards).

gamervear's Avatar


gamervear
12.31.2011 , 04:24 AM | #5
What I see are three groups.

1. Resource sellers.

2. Crafters that price to sell.

3. Crafters that price to screw.


1 is fine. Resource demand will always exist and as long as you keep your prices around market averages, you'll always sell.

2 is also fine. You set prices that cover your expenses with a slight mark up to keep the incentive.

3 is WoW crafting mindset and is not fine. It just will not function within a credit-limited economy, like we have here. You cannot expect to get rich off one item, like some WoW sales, at least not now when the average person cannot afford a mount.

3 is often the same people that see crafting and non-profit or 'broken'... usually. New MMO, new economy, new mindset. Change with the times or stay stuck in the 'its broke' threads and non-selling items.
SWG Veteran: Wanderhome - Master Ranger/Master Bioengineer.

Immortality is found in the words and actions of our children.

Liralen's Avatar


Liralen
12.31.2011 , 05:11 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by gamervear View Post

3 is WoW crafting mindset and is not fine. It just will not function within a credit-limited economy, like we have here. You cannot expect to get rich off one item, like some WoW sales, at least not now when the average person cannot afford a mount.

3 is often the same people that see crafting and non-profit or 'broken'... usually. New MMO, new economy, new mindset. Change with the times or stay stuck in the 'its broke' threads and non-selling items.
I love crafting but not to the point of stupidity. It would be stupid to craft when I could buy it from someone who is selling it below what it would cost me to make it. As I'm always a crafter in games, I do recognize the value of taking a temporary loss for a future gain. But I don't see the future gain here for most crafting skills.

It's also stupid to pay someone to entertain you who is not entertaining you. That is always true. It has nothing to do with the "changing with the times". Quite the opposite actually. I'm probably not the only one who kept subscribing to an old school game that was no longer fun, and then later felt stupid for doing so. I've learned from my past mistakes, have more alternatives now, and so less tolerance for broken games.

I'm having fun for now, but there's a lot that needs to be fixed for that to continue. And for the record, WoW crafting sucks, which is one of the many reasons I left it, after playing it for about 3 years after release.

torhent's Avatar


torhent
12.31.2011 , 05:15 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by phfct View Post
Dude the game is out like 15 days orso and you already say something is broken. Most people are still in the process of leveling up their char's.

Only a few people at this time are bothered with moneymaking and buying gear! Mostly they buy gear to upgrade companions!

I have np selling the goods i craft.

And youre right about the mobs they drop ****loads of gear. But blue/ epic gear Sells quit good!

Just a reminder low-level character dont feel the need to buy gear because they dont have credits!

----------------------------------

Dont know if you now this but if you reverse engineer the crafted green gear you have for a change to get the schematic of the blue equivelant .

Hope this helps a bit
The crafting system two Beta's back were actually of some use. However the last beta and launch system basically made it where crewskill made goods are useless. I'm serious here, DO NOT DO A CREW SKILL.

I'm 50 and I have 400 Armstech. I did crafting all throughout Beta as well. And let me tell you, the current launched system implementation of crafting is a fail. The current crewskill system is only good for leveling gear and that is it. You will not use any crewskill made goods for starter raiding and you definitely would not use it for starter PVP. Heck, I wouldn't use crewskill made goods for flashpoints.

You can get significantly better gear from commendation vendors and from specialty vendors who sell the items for cash directly. There always was a problem where too much gear was made readilly available that would make crew skill goods somewhat useless. But the current system is set up in such a way that there is no reason to buy crewskill made goods at 50.

I had a cybertech contact me and say he had lvl 50 mods for me. I hated to do it, but I had to let him know that I was already in a bit of artifact level gear and the mods were were higher than what he could make after talking to me. He was dejected to say the least.

I did a lot of crafting aggressively in WoW, and Biowares implementation of crewskills is just bad. Really, Really, Really, Really Awesomely Horrible Bad.
Emmobiggiesmalls,
Scundrel Extraordinaire

GamerInDallas's Avatar


GamerInDallas
12.31.2011 , 09:42 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by gamervear View Post
What I see are three groups.

1. Resource sellers.

2. Crafters that price to sell.

3. Crafters that price to screw.


1 is fine. Resource demand will always exist and as long as you keep your prices around market averages, you'll always sell.

2 is also fine. You set prices that cover your expenses with a slight mark up to keep the incentive.

3 is WoW crafting mindset and is not fine. It just will not function within a credit-limited economy, like we have here. You cannot expect to get rich off one item, like some WoW sales, at least not now when the average person cannot afford a mount.

3 is often the same people that see crafting and non-profit or 'broken'... usually. New MMO, new economy, new mindset. Change with the times or stay stuck in the 'its broke' threads and non-selling items.
The problem I'm seeing is that there isn't any demand for anything that can be sold at a profit. Sure, there's some demand if you sell at a loss, but you can't do that for very long until you are broke.

All other problems will take care of themselves in a free market. If there's demand pretty much anything else can be messed up and there's still profit to be made. The problem I'm see, and seems to be at least partially confirmed by others, is that non-crafted goods are better than crafted goods and there's no point in buying them. Therefore, there is no demand and the economy is broken in the worst possible way that it can be broken in.

I'm sure BW will improve the economy; after all, why put crafting in the game if it's nothing but a money pit and a waste of time. They have to attempt to fix it eventually. I'm just debating on whether to actually try crafting or whether I'm just throwing my money away (and my character's are pretty broke even without wasting their money on crafting). I'm essentially asking whether it's better to forget about crafting until BW fixes it or if it CAN be profitable if you know what you're doing.

GamerInDallas's Avatar


GamerInDallas
12.31.2011 , 09:47 AM | #9
Oh. And the other issue related to lack of demand, which some others have confirmed, is that I'm not having any trouble soloing without using crafted goods. There isn't much point in buying crafted goods, if I don't need them to get the job done and they aren't cheaper than stuff I can get at the vendors. You can craft until your fingers bleed, but if I don't need your stuff (or at least want it for vanity) then I'm never going to buy it.

LilTikiBoy's Avatar


LilTikiBoy
12.31.2011 , 10:00 AM | #10
IMO in order for crafting skills to not be a money sink BW needs to remove all the mods from the gear bought with tokens. Thus requiring players to buy said mods from other players and increasing the profit for people with crafting skills and making them less of a money sink until 400.