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Hard Enrages are beneath Bioware


KujinRen's Avatar


KujinRen
01.27.2012 , 03:22 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Shadowcatra View Post
Hard enrages are simply a dps check. If you wipe, then you are missing some dps somewhere. Either a CDs miss used or a little bit more dmg from everyone. Either way it is saying that you are undergeared or just barely there. It is not lazy, it is a player checking system.
Most of the time, I'd say it is the player behind the keyboard. Gear definitely can make a difference although a proper rotation and awareness comes into play as well.

Merraith's Avatar


Merraith
01.27.2012 , 03:27 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Lymain View Post
Maybe it's just semantics, but you can have DPS checks without enrage timers. I get tired of reading how you have to have enrage timers or guilds will stack healers/tanks. There are a lot of different ways to test a raid's DPS without putting a time limit on the fight.
Yes, like mind traps, carbonization droids, proximity mine droids, etc? Maybe you haven't seen all of those.

Enrage timers are one tool among many...and frankly with even a minimal amount of gear/skill combined most of the enrage timers are something no op should see more than once, if at all.

Cadrigger's Avatar


Cadrigger
01.27.2012 , 04:07 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by quikscope View Post
+1.

Just adding hp and damage and enrage timers to raise the level of raiding through hard modes is a pretty poor effort.
+1
Agreed (amidointhisright?)

Sindarant's Avatar


Sindarant
01.27.2012 , 04:08 PM | #84
I agree, the enrage timer is the only chalanging tactic at bosses, and it is no fun at all. I mean the rest is just really easy, Bioware needs to fix their endgame content, or they will lose a lot of players.
Officer of the Umbran Conclave

urgod's Avatar


urgod
01.27.2012 , 04:32 PM | #85
i love this QQ in this thread about enrage, THIS IS THE FIRST TIER OF RAIDING CHILL OUT JESUS CHRIST, enrage timers are needed, so like other been saying so you can't stack tanks and healers, if you suck so bad that you need 30 mintues to kill a boss, then obviously, you don't deserve to be in that zone, it's always the casual's who can't hang with the hardcore raiding crowd that complains about every single little detail.

this thread deserves the L2P tag.

jkwengert's Avatar


jkwengert
01.27.2012 , 05:21 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Endilix View Post
Honestly, the purpose for enrages is a necessary evil. Yeah, it sucks getting 10 seconds away. I've been there so many times in so many MMOs that have hard enrages. But that just means we gotta step up our game and try again. Now sure, it may not be tuned very well yet, and that IS Bioware's fault. But when it is tuned and people are able to meet the timers in a challenging yet doable fashion, then it's not Bioware's fault. It's your group's fault.

It's not a lack of creativity. It's a matter of necessity to make sure that people don't just blast through content they shouldn't be doing. Hard modes are all about being able to survive AND push the max amount of damage, healing, and mitigation possible in a given fight. Sometimes that's adding more mechanics. Sometimes that 's a hard enrage. Sometimes, all it takes is making the boss hit harder. It's all about the fight, really.
I will agree with this somewhat. Your comment about doing content you shouldn't do is evident in other games where just adding an additional healer trivializes the run.

The "hard enrage" (which often is just 200% damage increase - which can easily wipe folks) does feel cheap though when it's on so many of the bosses. It also means that for most of the runs, you can't have two heals specs in a run. For smaller guilds, that creates a major issue since tanks seem to be few and far between with a ton of folks rolling healer in this game.

Quote: Originally Posted by urgod View Post
i love this QQ in this thread about enrage, THIS IS THE FIRST TIER OF RAIDING CHILL OUT JESUS CHRIST, enrage timers are needed, so like other been saying so you can't stack tanks and healers, if you suck so bad that you need 30 mintues to kill a boss, then obviously, you don't deserve to be in that zone, it's always the casual's who can't hang with the hardcore raiding crowd that complains about every single little detail.

this thread deserves the L2P tag.
In fairness, this isn't just a L2P issue. While there is case to make for rotation and playing well (situational awareness, being sure to interrupt, maintaining threat, etc.), there is a significant difference between 50/51 epic modifications and the 56s and it can take a *very* long time to gear up if you have poor loot drop luck (last 20 bosses...17 have dropped trooper gear with no troopers in party, for example).

urgod's Avatar


urgod
01.27.2012 , 05:44 PM | #87
Quote:
In fairness, this isn't just a L2P issue. While there is case to make for rotation and playing well (situational awareness, being sure to interrupt, maintaining threat, etc.), there is a significant difference between 50/51 epic modifications and the 56s and it can take a *very* long time to gear up if you have poor loot drop luck (last 20 bosses...17 have dropped trooper gear with no troopers in party, for example).
I agree with you to a certain extent, maybe people would like the day's of old EQ, where the boss would Deathtouch your entire raid for millions of hit points, there use to be other mechanics besides enrage timers in mmo's before, rage timers where ever introduced, point of a enrage timer is to put your raid to the TEST. can it do X amount of dmg, while survieng Y and Z, all i have seen from this thread and the people saying they don't like enrage timer is trying to take X out of the equation and just make it Y-Z.

Perfect example take SOA for example, in P2 when you have to kill the MINDTRAPS, the longer you take the harder it's gonna be on your healers, to heal the tank and raid, if the raid was full of tanks and healers, the mindtraps would never go down, and you would end up with countless people in mindtraps, and the raid would wipe, removing the X compoent from raid's is a bad ideal.

Like i said this is bioware first tier of raiding, bashing them for the raiding stuff, besides the bugs on the encounter is stupid, allot of these fights are unique and fun, i can't wait for tier 2 stuff, i guarantee the mechanics will be completely different and even harder, while still maintain that, if you don't meet the dps requirements you need to go gear up more, let's be honest we all played WOW and the hardest to fights in that game where M'ru and Rag < fireland version on heroic.

jkwengert's Avatar


jkwengert
01.27.2012 , 05:56 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by urgod View Post
I agree with you to a certain extent, maybe people would like the day's of old EQ, where the boss would Deathtouch your entire raid for millions of hit points, there use to be other mechanics besides enrage timers in mmo's before, rage timers where ever introduced, point of a enrage timer is to put your raid to the TEST. can it do X amount of dmg, while survieng Y and Z, all i have seen from this thread and the people saying they don't like enrage timer is trying to take X out of the equation and just make it Y-Z.

Perfect example take SOA for example, in P2 when you have to kill the MINDTRAPS, the longer you take the harder it's gonna be on your healers, to heal the tank and raid, if the raid was full of tanks and healers, the mindtraps would never go down, and you would end up with countless people in mindtraps, and the raid would wipe, removing the X compoent from raid's is a bad ideal.

Like i said this is bioware first tier of raiding, bashing them for the raiding stuff, besides the bugs on the encounter is stupid, allot of these fights are unique and fun, i can't wait for tier 2 stuff, i guarantee the mechanics will be completely different and even harder, while still maintain that, if you don't meet the dps requirements you need to go gear up more, let's be honest we all played WOW and the hardest to fights in that game where M'ru and Rag < fireland version on heroic.
I can appreciate where you're coming from. Heck, Asheron's Call...mobs would level by gaining xp from killing players. Some servers...one raid boss outleveled the server's ability to even kill it!

I should have added that a hard enrage is definitely a viable encounter obstacle. But so many of the bosses enrage; it's an overused fallback and feels entirely played (pun intended). Given how fun, different, and complicated/complex the Mentor fight is and how accomplished it feels completing it, it's definitely doable to have far more interesting boss fights if BW would think more outside the box.

hiddenpuudji's Avatar


hiddenpuudji
01.27.2012 , 08:00 PM | #89
LOL.

You have no idea what you're talking about if you want people to just be able to figure out a way around having to gear up. STUPID. Absolutely stupid. The boss fights all have mechanics you need to beat the boss without having to dps race, its called NORMAL MODE. If you want a challenge try HM. If you want to get ***** try Nightmare...

now i'm done.
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