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Why are people missing the big points on slicing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Why are people missing the big points on slicing?

CRNphg's Avatar


CRNphg
12.30.2011 , 10:25 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Velisael View Post
I am not sure, but why should anybody make money from running missions?? ....
click button - pay credits - receive materials.
click button - pay credits - craft item.
click button - sell item - gain credits.

Just more clicks to achieve the same thing...
Raten - Insanity - Red eclipse
"Observation: I am a droid, master, with programming. Even if I did not enjoy killing, I would have no choice. Thankfully, I enjoy it very much."

Litefire's Avatar


Litefire
12.30.2011 , 10:26 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaliv View Post
Uh...if the market is saturated and I need mats for Bio...then why wouldn't I just take 300 credits and buy them off the market? Makes more sense than spending 800 credits knowing the average return is 600 credits worth of mats that are really worth 300 credits. In the end...I have what I need...mats.

Your example of slicing is that I'm spending 800 credits for I can lose 200 credits and then buy something I need. Why not just take my 800 credits and buy what I need?

The comparision of slicing to any other gathering mission doesn't make sense. With other gathering missions, you get something in return that is useable. In slicing...you're trying to make more credits to have more purchasing power than you had before. I can't craft anything out of nothing...so if I need more mats, I do missions for them. If I don't care about crafting anything...I need money...not mats.
This need to be quoted repeatedly over and over and over again, on every slicing thread where they talk about other gathing skill missions returning lower credit mats, at least you get mats, and aren't gambling hoping that you get a mission, schematic to make the venture useful.
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Velisael's Avatar


Velisael
12.30.2011 , 10:30 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaliv View Post
If I don't care about crafting anything...I need money...not mats.
I am as perturbed by this comment as the poster who made a post saying "DOOD WHICH PROFESSION MAKES THE MOST MONEY BECAUSE I WANT TO BE BAAAAWWWWS"

If you need money, then grind mobs and instances like in other MMOs you played? I will admit I am applying old set concepts from other MMOs ... but crafting DOES NOT make you rich at the onset. Even GATHERING does not! Gathering only makes you money if you run around and gather yourself. This is no different in SWTOR. If you push the mission button, you are accepting paying money TO LEVEL YOUR SKILL or ATTAIN MATS which you use to craft.

If you want to make money slicing run around the world opening nodes. Just because BioWare added missions that are different than well known MMOs (like WoW) doesn't mean the basic concepts and mechanics are any different. They made it easier for you to level a profession, not to make money.

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 10:31 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Litefire View Post
This need to be quoted repeatedly over and over and over again, on every slicing thread where they talk about other gathing skill missions returning lower credit mats, at least you get mats, and aren't gambling hoping that you get a mission, schematic to make the venture useful.
That and the fact that no other gathering profession has successful missions that actually results in a net loss of materials either. I don't send a companion out to get me color crystals, have them succeed, and then get 2 taken out of my inventory.

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 10:33 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Velisael View Post
If you want to make money slicing run around the world opening nodes.
Apparently you have not been keeping up with current events..... NODES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE GAME ON SOME PLANETS

RvEijndhoven's Avatar


RvEijndhoven
12.30.2011 , 10:36 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Velisael View Post
I am not sure, but why should anybody make money from running missions??
And herein lies the problem. Herein lies the whinefest that motivated Bioware to nerf Slicing into the ground.

It's players seeing the situation and coming to the wrong conclusion.

What you did here was go "I'm not making any money, why should they?"

When what you should have done is say "They're making money, so should I!"

I see tons and tons of people saying 'Crafting was never intended to make you money'. This is a lie. Or at least it's a lie in so far as those people have no official confirmation that this is in any way true and they claim it any way.

Why? Because they're not making any money off of their Crew Skills and they can't stand that others were.

I'm Artifice/Archeology/Treasure Hunting myself and I worked with my brother who is/was Synthweaving/Underworld Trading/Slicing. Pre-nerf we made a slight profit, post-nerf we're both broke.

Why? Because now we both have Crew Skill sets that only lose us money.
Sure, Slicing still has a slight positive balance when it comes to Credits invested vs. Credits gained, but the missions for Underworld Trading alone suck all of that income right back done the drain and I'm Archeologizing for two at a considerable loss.

Crew Skills need to stop being a money sink.

People claim that 'most crew skills will be profitable by lvl 50/when the economy settles'. This too is not true, because by the time I've reached lvl 50 (or reach 400 skill) I will have spent nearly a million credits on simply getting up the three skills I need to craft items anyone would be willing to buy. Unless I can sell those items for a significant profit a pop (I can't, because the missions needed to get those items cost credits too, so even if I manage to sell a lvl 50 item for 50k credits it took 20k credits to get the materials for that) it will still take months before the Crew Skills actually turns a profit.

Short version of the above paragraph:
Just because an item sells for more than it cost to make, doesn't make it profitable, because getting to the point where you can make it costs a load of credits too.

OdonKnight's Avatar


OdonKnight
12.30.2011 , 10:36 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Zakkana View Post
That and the fact that no other gathering profession has successful missions that actually results in a net loss of materials either. I don't send a companion out to get me color crystals, have them succeed, and then get 2 taken out of my inventory.
I know you mean well and I know what you want is for your effort and time (sending follower x on a mission) to be productive in credits above and beyond any specials you get as well as the increase in skills. I get that. Nothing wrong with having that opinion except it is a time-bomb for the economy as a whole.

1. It enables low level chars to race through slicing and have exceedingly high amounts of money as compared to non-slicers of the same level. Cost of players sold goods climbs as well as diluting the difficulty of getting mounts/etc.

2. As the slicer is also a crafter the slicer can buy all the goods they want and make their crafted items and destroy non-slicers from penetrating the market. (as rare items for better than green designs are expensive)

3. The biggie - Having the ability to click a few buttons for a relatively low level character to send off companions that results in a profit is an open invitation to massive gold farmers/bot farming for credits which will then make economic problems of increased cash availability worse. The more money there is of a currency the less it is worth.

BW absolutely has to remove the ability to click a few buttons and print money. They just had to. Are further tweaks necessary - absolutely. The virtual economy is still just getting started.

addendum: Other skills have failed missions too so spending 2K hoping to get some power crystals might result in crystals, but might result in a goose egg. Regardless, then you have to spend time to do something with the crystals (making them or selling them) - neither of which is a guarantee unlike if you get a straight profit from slicing missions - $$$ for little time. Recipe for hyperinflation and a fertile field for gold sellers to exploit.

Velisael's Avatar


Velisael
12.30.2011 , 10:39 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by CRNphg View Post
click button - pay credits - receive materials.
click button - pay credits - craft item.
click button - sell item - gain credits.

Just more clicks to achieve the same thing...
Same thing as Slicing? I am confused... the point is all the clicks of a button made my whole process at a financial net loss. However in return, I leveled my skills without having to go out and physically farm mats. Nor do I have to scour the GTN looking for "great deals". I will admit the mission button is perfect for people who do not want to spend the time to do associated tasks of leveling crafting (which are quite tedious):

- Run around the world plotting and gathering from nodes
- Switch to a different area as the nodes you gather from do not give you levels
- Scour an AH looking for mats in bulk to reduce your gathering time
- Sit at a crafting station yourself and queue up X amount of objects to level actual craft

I assume this was BioWare's intention. I will admit though, Slicing's concept other than special missions does not really support any other gatherer/crafter role. Which I believe is why so many people have now equated Slicing as a profession that just earns money. You "gather" credits. The concept of "gathering" currency is broken and mind-boggling. If they didn't nerf it, it could technically replace grinding mobs (also mind-boggling)!

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 10:47 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by OdonKnight View Post
I know you mean well and I know what you want is for your effort and time (sending follower x on a mission) to be productive in credits above and beyond any specials you get as well as the increase in skills. I get that. Nothing wrong with having that opinion except it is a time-bomb for the economy as a whole.

1. It enables low level chars to race through slicing and have exceedingly high amounts of money as compared to non-slicers of the same level. Cost of players sold goods climbs as well as diluting the difficulty of getting mounts/etc.

2. As the slicer is also a crafter the slicer can buy all the goods they want and make their crafted items and destroy non-slicers from penetrating the market. (as rare items for better than green designs are expensive)

3. The biggie - Having the ability to click a few buttons for a relatively low level character to send off companions that results in a profit is an open invitation to massive gold farmers/bot farming for credits which will then make economic problems of increased cash availability worse. The more money there is of a currency the less it is worth.

BW absolutely has to remove the ability to click a few buttons and print money. They just had to. Are further tweaks necessary - absolutely. The virtual economy is still just getting started.

addendum: Other skills have failed missions too so spending 2K hoping to get some power crystals might result in crystals, but might result in a goose egg. Regardless, then you have to spend time to do something with the crystals (making them or selling them) - neither of which is a guarantee unlike if you get a straight profit from slicing missions - $$$ for little time. Recipe for hyperinflation and a fertile field for gold sellers to exploit.
1) A solution to that already has been suggested numerous times. Tie the level of the mission to the character's level. So in order to start running level 6 missions, your character would need to be level 49. This would have the ability scale leveling. It has even been suggested that it be restricted to one character per server and per faction. I also mentioned maybe limiting the number of companions that can be sent out on single skill too.

2) Crafting is fed by two professions thus making it impossible for a slicer to be able to totally dominate a crafting area. Second, for all intents and purposes, crafting really does not matter until level 50 when the gear is not changing anymore like it does while leveling. If the crafter is a artifice, then they are going to be going without archaeology or treasure hunting. BW can further enforce this by placing the same restriction on gathering and mission skills like they do for crafting.

3) #1 fixes that. Also, people have been reporting increases in credit-selling spam because they sellers smell blood in the water because they know how expensive things are at 50 and so forth. I got my first credit spam a few days in. In Coruscant general chat we were all laughing at it because "Why buy credits when slicing provides me with what I need?

As for failed missions, when you fail the mission, you lose the money. But we're talking successful missions losing too. It is akin to someone sending out their companion for some Rubat Crystals, having them succeed, and then having 4 Rubat crystals taken from their inventory.

Velisael's Avatar


Velisael
12.30.2011 , 10:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by RvEijndhoven View Post
Why? Because they're not making any money off of their Crew Skills and they can't stand that others were.
I do see and agree on your point of us telling BioWare that all should be fair (hence all should just make money). I am not even going to argue about the ensuing inflation as a result(economics of SWTOR).

I am just stating my opinion and experience from MMOs since EverQuest (the first I started with) that for most, crafting is NOT supposed to make you rich at the ONSET. I say ONSET in terms of this game not being a month oldl, and in the sense that people less than the level cap are already quite wealthy.

But slicing has just done that. So, my knee-jerk reaction (since I am investing time and money in this game) is to fix all broken concepts before this game really takes off like WoW. Otherwise it will just stagnate and die, and I would have wasted another $60 and hours of my life like I did in Rift