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Why are people missing the big points on slicing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Why are people missing the big points on slicing?

KrelosDarksky's Avatar


KrelosDarksky
12.30.2011 , 08:31 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Jonnio View Post
1) [B]

4) If a lot of people drop slicing or stop running missions that is bad for everyone - the market on the rare missions will dry up and the lvl 50 augments will be unavailable. Why are the crafters rejoicing at the loss of an inexpensive stream of blue/purple missions?

This is basically an out and out lie or just plain ignorant.

If the current money grubbers drop slicing because they can't manufacture credits at will anymore, players like me will roll slicers and fill the void.

You aren't going to lean on a 'there will be a vacuum if we all leave' -crutch to try to get your printing press back.


.

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 08:36 AM | #12
It is almost a universal agreement slicing needed some more adjustments. The issue is, and will continue to be, the heavy-handed way in which it was nerfed into oblivion and the lack of communication on this issue.

CRNphg's Avatar


CRNphg
12.30.2011 , 09:42 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Darzil View Post
It was the only crafting mission that wasn't a money sink. That wasn't balanced.
That's not true. The fact that slicing earns you credits does not make it unbalanced.
It's just a different type of resource you get from gathering.

Slicing pre-nerf was unbalanced. Slicing post-nerf might be better balanced or even at a disadvantage i'm not sure yet. But the crew missions still get me more credits then I put into it so it's not a money sink


Look at it this way.

If you want to build a house you need to invest in materials, equipment and an eduqation on how to build houses. This does not pay off until you sell the house (or live in it) so until that point it might seem like a money sink.


Slicing is more like investing. You entrust the money to someone else with the intention that you end up with more money.
Raten - Insanity - Red eclipse
"Observation: I am a droid, master, with programming. Even if I did not enjoy killing, I would have no choice. Thankfully, I enjoy it very much."

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 09:53 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CRNphg View Post
Slicing is more like investing. You entrust the money to someone else with the intention that you end up with more money.
As it stands right now, it's investing in something that you know is going to fail. Last night I sent my companions out on 3 epic mission drops. These are classified as "Wealthy" returns for Lockboxes and Augments. The missions cost 3115 credits each. I lost money on each of these "successful" missions. One lost me 1k credits and to add insult to injury, gave me a green quality augment.

Pestwulf's Avatar


Pestwulf
12.30.2011 , 10:06 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KrelosDarksky View Post
This is basically an out and out lie or just plain ignorant.

If the current money grubbers drop slicing because they can't manufacture credits at will anymore, players like me will roll slicers and fill the void.

You aren't going to lean on a 'there will be a vacuum if we all leave' -crutch to try to get your printing press back.


.
The "printing press" has always been, and still is, Underworld Trading. Scavenging and Bioanalysis also beat out slicing in profit.

What slicing had over them was that it was easier as you didn't have the GTN involved. But running missions for UT and selling every proceed compared to running slicing missions, it is undeniable that UT is significantly more profitable, pre-nerf and post-nerf.

If you don't believe it, go to a new server, make an new character, get your companion and start running UT missions with the credits you've made in order to nab the Terenthium bars. Sell if for 200 a bar, do not quest or level...just run UT missions near the GTN and sell the proceeds. Sell all the wonderful crits you get on UT as well for even more money.

Do this for a day of playing and then create a new character and do the exact same with slicing missions.

Compare the two and you will not be able to say that slicing is the printing press anymore, well, at least not with a straight face.

DustomaticGXC's Avatar


DustomaticGXC
12.30.2011 , 10:07 AM | #16
People are stupid and can't see down the road. Augments aren't valuable right now because the gear with augment slots is pretty scarce at the moment AND most people are still leveling and replacing gear too fast to care about such slight upgrades.

But when everyone is 50 and they're trying to maximize their stats, you can bet everyone will be looking for to put a top-level augment in every slot that will hold one.

I've said it a hundred times before and I'll say it again: people complaining about trades kills being broken/worthless and the economy needing an overhaul just need to sit back, shut up, and enjoy the leveling process/story. All of your "problems" will work themselves out as the game grows out of the infancy stage it is currently in.
Don't act like you didn't see this coming.

Velisael's Avatar


Velisael
12.30.2011 , 10:17 AM | #17
I am not sure, but why should anybody make money from running missions?? I am a archaeology, underworld trading, & synthweaver. I am definitely losing money from gathering missions in both. I always thought the mechanic in ANY MMO GAME to attain mats, you must spend time (to gather manually) or money (on the AH to buy mats). Either way, Pre-nerf Slicing allowed you to not spend the time (manually) by running missions and still make a profit. So with 0 time invested (you have given up nothing), and the net returns is positive.

From a straight mechanic perspective, in MMOs across the board, that concept is broken. Something that gives you monetary profit where you do not have to invest time is broken. Just push a button and accept mission. Thats it!

I actually thought BioWare's point of missions was for those ppl who are willing to pay money instead of time (the investment) and get the return of leveling up their gathering skill (as opposed to running around and mapping nodes like in other MMOs). Isn't the most comparable concept, the rich elitist in an MMO who purchased currency from a 3rd party, bought of all the mats on an AH, and then power-leveled a craft?

This is why I am totally confused by all the slicers who claim the nerf was because non-slicers "QQ-ed" ... They are blind to understand a basic concept in every known MMO to gamers: something for nothing is broken. Profit from pushing a button while you run a flashpoint is broken. It should not be. No gathering skill should be like that. And from what I have seen from my own gathering skills, if I were to run missions to attain all my mats I would actually be financially at a net loss (which is NORMAL). However, I would be power-leveled to 400 without any help from a high level player which is technically a great trade-off.

Maybe I am just seeing this to simplistically.

topwebcomics's Avatar


topwebcomics
12.30.2011 , 10:17 AM | #18
The way all of the non-slicers are promoting how great it is to be able to get back 80-105% of the credits spent on a credit slicing mission, I think they should drop their skills and switch to slicing!

Every person who tells me I should be lucky to be able to slice for a lvl 50 augment should buy a lvl 50 augment off me for what, at least double the cost of my mission to get that augment? And it should be sight unseen, you give me the credits first, then I'll give you the augment, same as my missions do for me.

I'm not wanting lockboxes to be made profitable again, obviously the non-slicers will all QQ if that were to happen and I don't want anyone sad.

But I would be happy if Bioware
1) added augment slots to crafted orange gear (even if only on a crit or whatever, same as non-orange gear). This change alone would suddenly make my augment missions possibly worth it. It would also make crafted orange armor be very valuable to me, helping the non-slicers not QQ over my OP slicing ability to get augments. And isn't that what we want for everyone? All of the crafting missions to be useful?

2) get rid of credit lockboxes. I know I know, I should be thanksful to spend 1000 credits and get 800 credits on my successful mission. And when I spend 1700 credits and get 1900, I should be jumping up and down for making 200 credits in 20 minutes. But I'm a whiner that way, QQ is addicting. When I'm doing a 4-man flashpoint and send my companions off to salvage, I'm not losing credits and I'm not trying to skill up, I'm getting substantially more resources than I can get on the flashpoint so I can craft before I log out. I would spend 60 seconds to get more resources than my missions salvaging in the real world, but no one will tell me where the magical place is with these piles of resources. In my world I salvage while doing missions probably once every 10 minutes, not 1/companion like I do with missions. Until someone shares, I have to do salvage missions and apparently not lose money but instead gain valuable resources I use to craft with (I know, I must be doing something wrong, or maybe salvaging is OP and needs to be nerfed because I actually use my resources to craft instead of trying to sell them, I better stock up now, please don't QQ about it until I have more time to stock up).

3) After removing the credit credit lockboxes, add new lockboxes that return random items or green schemas like ppl say (with the crits still returning what they do now). Or maybe control pads to summon a 60 second droid or something. Something related to hacking computers that I could use (which negates value) or can possibly sell for who knows how much on the GTN. Basically, the other missions give things that its up to the player to be clever and turn into more valuable credits than the cost of the mission, credit lockboxes guarantees you can't be clever and "will" lose (or at least for those of us who are unlucky, I gave up after 12 missions of rich and abundant successes and several hours later returning me -300 credits, I've seen some non-slicers saying how much money they keep making now with slicing after the nerf)

My wife has tons of money, entirely from having 3 salvaging skills and selling on the GTN. Shes skilled, she takes things off the GTN when people flood it with cheap mats, and puts things back on when things become profitable. Every day I watch my credit balance get lower, as I buy expensive skills to level up, while she has ever more money (talking hundreds of thousands at this point). When they sliced nerfing I wondered if I'd be able to buy the next speeder upgrade, but she continues to inflate her money (and yes she does these supposedly money losing missions for the other 3 salvaging skills). I won't share which salvaging skills she has, I wouldn't want more QQ on the forums to cause the devs to reduce the number of mats she gets or something.

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.30.2011 , 10:18 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DustomaticGXC View Post
People are stupid and can't see down the road.
Calling people stupid means you cannot really counter the argument and therefore you have waved the white flag. I gracefully accept your surrender sir.

Kaliv's Avatar


Kaliv
12.30.2011 , 10:21 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ravaran View Post
A bioanalysis mission costs 800 credits to run, returning 600 credits worth of mats.
A slicing mission costs 800 credits to run, returning 600 credits.

You can then buy 600 credits worth of mats if you like. So why run either? You shouldn't, unless you are too lazy to farm nodes in the open world. But with slicing you have the chance to get a mission discovery..and with bio you just get more mats. You are actually better off with slicing, because those 600 credits-worth of mats you got, maybe actually be worth 300 or less if the market is saturated. With slicing at least your credits will retain its value..obviously.
Uh...if the market is saturated and I need mats for Bio...then why wouldn't I just take 300 credits and buy them off the market? Makes more sense than spending 800 credits knowing the average return is 600 credits worth of mats that are really worth 300 credits. In the end...I have what I need...mats.

Your example of slicing is that I'm spending 800 credits for I can lose 200 credits and then buy something I need. Why not just take my 800 credits and buy what I need?

The comparision of slicing to any other gathering mission doesn't make sense. With other gathering missions, you get something in return that is useable. In slicing...you're trying to make more credits to have more purchasing power than you had before. I can't craft anything out of nothing...so if I need more mats, I do missions for them. If I don't care about crafting anything...I need money...not mats.