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Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
12.30.2011 , 11:05 AM | #121
Hardest I have ever been hit was by a maul spam spec assassin. I was killed in two hits, aka 2 global cooldowns. Granted it was adrenal (3 minutes), warzone buff, trinket (which is the same thing you see when you post these numbers from ops/smugglers).

Other classes burst just as hard and doesn't require an opener from stealth to do so.

Stealth counters ranged. Ranged counters melee. Stealth gets bent over when caught out of stealth. Without stealth nothing would be keeping range in checked.

If stealth is whining about ranged? They are idiots. If you are whining about stealth as ranged? You are just as big an idiot. They are the only thing keeping ranged in check.

Guardians/Juggernauts can put out more pressure against a well played team in group combat then a scoundrel/op. Op's are simply good at killing healers with no tank guard on them, who stand away from their group like idiots. The "rogue class" in every game has been good at that. This isn't exactly groundbreaking...
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

Hayemaker's Avatar


Hayemaker
12.30.2011 , 11:20 AM | #122
CC is the real problem. Give CC immunities, so you don't break one then walk straight into another, and people aren't going to be so helpless when getting stealthed.

Its true that a stealth caught out is an easy kill, but being killed without being able to do anything about it is boring as f***. I don't much care if the runt gets himself killed after he has killed me.

Tweak their burst down a bit, their sustained damage and survivability up a bit. Thats not limited to OP/Scoundrel, its a good rule for PVP in general.

Teabaker's Avatar


Teabaker
12.30.2011 , 11:27 AM | #123
Uhm, do you already have some Expertise? In WoW it was pretty much the same. Heavy Burst Classes are amazing before everyone had 20%-25% Resilience and some HP.

Daecollo's Avatar


Daecollo
12.30.2011 , 11:32 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Teabaker View Post
Uhm, do you already have some Expertise? In WoW it was pretty much the same. Heavy Burst Classes are amazing before everyone had 20%-25% Resilience and some HP.
Scoundrels/Operatives do more damage then snipers/gunslingers.
Have Stealth
Have More Armor. (4% Damage Reduction.)
Have More Movement Speed. (15% forever.)
And do not have to be in cover 99.7% of the time.

The only problem with it is Sniper/Gunslinger just suck comparably.



Oh And by the way, Resilience IS way better then expertise, most people only have 200 expertise atm, and thats only 2.5% extra damage/lower damage taken, in WoW having that much would be like having 30% more damage/lower damage taken.

Expertise DOES NOT make you win or lose a fight.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
12.30.2011 , 11:32 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Hayemaker View Post
CC is the real problem. Give CC immunities, so you don't break one then walk straight into another, and people aren't going to be so helpless when getting stealthed.

Its true that a stealth caught out is an easy kill, but being killed without being able to do anything about it is boring as f***. I don't much care if the runt gets himself killed after he has killed me.

Tweak their burst down a bit, their sustained damage and survivability up a bit. Thats not limited to OP/Scoundrel, its a good rule for PVP in general.
Form a premade, use guard. Powertechs/Juggernauts/Marauders/Assassins and healers (and their mirrors) crap on everyone in this game. A scoundrel/operative can't do jack to this team. All the best premades I faced stacked those classes. Not dmg Sorcerers, heal sorcerers. Not damage operatives, heal operatives.

Melee/warrior class has ALWAYS been dependent on heals in MMO's. Proof? See the entire MMO genre. Add to this, assassins are far better in a premade with heals then operatives, because they are much better out of stealth with a spam maul spec and they give the team another guard and taunts which takes away all burst damage from the scoundrel/operative.

This game is designed around team play. If you aren't playing with a team and you are complaining about burst that simply doesn't happen or can NOT instagib players on a properly played TEAM? You are making a baseless complaint.

You don't nerf a class due to pug vs pug and then make them completely useless in team play... If you do? Then you made a entire AC pointless. All the scoundrels/ops will just reroll marauder/sentinel and give their team a damage buff, a mortal strike, a speed buff, and not be completely handcuffed in huttball on a scoundrel/op. Charge > having no way to get back up to a platform and having to shoot your pistol/sniper rifle for 500 dmg.
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

Daecollo's Avatar


Daecollo
12.30.2011 , 11:35 AM | #126
Snipers/Gunslingers need fixed, there damage is bad compared to operatives/scoundrels.

Wrehn's Avatar


Wrehn
12.30.2011 , 11:37 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Urusai-Baka View Post
I like this comment.

Any class played properly all of a sudden makes then Overpowered.
I've only noticed that Sorcerers deal a lot of dmg and have that annoying heal, but that's how they are made
So much skill involved in pressing 3 buttons and watching your target drops. Don't make me laugh....

The fact that there are no brackets makes this seem even more exaggerated.

I don't care that theres so many problems with pvp. What I DO CARE about is that bio-ware acknowledges that there IS a problem, and they are working on it.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing" -Burke

Hayemaker's Avatar


Hayemaker
12.30.2011 , 11:37 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
Form a premade, use guard. Powertechs/Juggernauts/Marauders/Assassins and healers (and their mirrors) crap on everyone in this game. A scoundrel/operative can't do jack to this team. All the best premades I faced stacked those classes. Not dmg Sorcerers, heal sorcerers. Not damage operatives, heal operatives.

Melee/warrior class has ALWAYS been dependent on heals in MMO's. Proof? See the entire MMO genre. Add to this, assassins are far better in a premade with heals then operatives, because they are much better out of stealth with a spam maul spec and they give the team another guard and taunts which takes away all burst damage from the scoundrel/operative.

This game is designed around team play. If you aren't playing with a team and you are complaining about burst that simply doesn't happen or can NOT instagib players on a properly played TEAM? You are making a baseless complaint.

You don't nerf a class due to pug vs pug and then make them completely useless in team play... If you do? Then you made a entire AC pointless. All the scoundrels/ops will just reroll marauder/sentinel and give their team a damage buff, a mortal strike, a speed buff, and not be completely handcuffed in huttball on a scoundrel/op. Charge > having no way to get back up to a platform and having to shoot your pistol/sniper rifle for 500 dmg.
Absolutely, when my guild has enough 50's, we will have premades and I don't think ops will be so powerful. But we are all trying out classes at the moment. And I won't know until we try it.

Like I say, my big issue is with the CC in game at the moment. I am working on two, a sage, and unfortunately I specced my smuggler to gunslinger before I saw the benefits of going the other way (slingers are still pretty good of course). But playing a range class is a bit of a mare with all the CC flying around.

Gief CC immunities with no more changes, and I'll be happy.

By the way, I am a vet of DAOC and Warhammer, so I am well aware of how to PVP effectively (although I'll admit not "lite" in this game yet).

Atamosk's Avatar


Atamosk
12.30.2011 , 11:39 AM | #129
haha people are complaining about 1v1 world pvp. as the poster above me just made a great point. in team combat they probably arent op.

the game is not balanced around 1v1 it is balanced around having all the parts fighting together. so to claim a class already needs to be nerfed is just stupid.
running is never a bad thing

Saberolson's Avatar


Saberolson
12.30.2011 , 11:40 AM | #130
Im sure this has been said, but he prob used every cooldown had had to blow through you two, and had anyway even sneezed on him in the next 2 minutes, he would of fallen over dead.

They are a burst damage class, just like a rogue. they specialize in killing things fast, and the good ones are tough to beat one on one, but in a sustained large scale fight, they are at a disadvantage for sure. Just like other classes are great in a sustained large scale fight, but not that good one on one.

This is not a damn arena. I get so sick of having to say that. There job is to get in around the back and ravage healers, or protect cap points from people who come without much backup. You avg scoundrel would not have taken 2 decently played people that quick. They prob would of lost. This guy was just good.(or you sucked)

They are alreayd the lowest played class, if they get nerfed, there will be none left.