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You Can't Change Your Advanced Class!?!?!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
You Can't Change Your Advanced Class!?!?!

MeanMartian's Avatar


MeanMartian
02.16.2012 , 07:50 PM | #431
Quote: Originally Posted by Ukita View Post
There would be no reason to play anything but trooper... Good ranged DPS, good melee DPS, good heals, good tanking.
Yeah, a trooper would be the druid of this game if they let you advanced class switch. Of course, WoW still has plenty of players that aren't druids... maybe all those warriors and rogues haven't gotten the memo yet?
I don't care what you believe unless you can tell me why you believe it.

Microwavegerbil's Avatar


Microwavegerbil
02.16.2012 , 08:46 PM | #432
Quote: Originally Posted by MeanMartian View Post
Ah, you see, I saw what you posted, but assumed it couldn't possibly be your full reasoning because it is an argument FOR advanced class switching and you are against advanced class switching. You say this game derives its replay value from 8 superbly written story lines that engrosses the player in the actions of his character. Lovely, I agree! I space bar'd through the third time I had to listen to some senator hire me to lay the beat down on the migrant merchants guild, but you better believe I was paying attention each and every time I did a class quest on Coruscant. I don't think its enough to say it gives more replay value than WoW, but that's a discussion for a later time.

There's just one tiny little problem with that, you see, advanced classes share a story line. This replayability isn't there when you are rolling your second trooper just to see how a vanguard plays. So it comes back around to the question, if the replayability isn't there, why make people slog through all the class quests a second time, and all the side quests for the, however-many-characters-they've-leveled-already-teenth time, to experience the advanced class?

I'm sorry that you find me arrogant. *shrug* I rub people the wrong way because short sighted posts that make assertions without reason annoy me. Not as much as pretend internet psychologists though... so you're at least three steps ahead of the last people who called me an arrogant ******e.
Yes, advanced classes share a storyline, that puts them on par with EVERY class in WOW where there are no unique storylines past the starting areas. That doesn't mean you can switch classes in WoW, it doesn't mean you can switch classes here.

You seem to think that just because someone sees things differently than you that their opinion is incomplete, stupid, or without reason. If someone gives you a reason you dismiss it because your interpretation is different. I could just as easily have been condescending when saying that your repetition of quests argument above could easily mean that ALL classes should be able switched between at will in wow, but I don't feel the need to respond in such a manner.

As I said before, it was a deliberate design decision to not make one class that could "do it all". Be my guest to feel that is stupid, or say that it makes no sense. I'm sorry you can't come to terms with others feeling that way, but please continue being a jerk on the internet, its nothing new.

HKFortyEight's Avatar


HKFortyEight
02.16.2012 , 08:54 PM | #433
There is no Class changing Bioware has stated it. Thank you good day this thread can be locked and sink to the bottom of the forums.
Do you like bananas?

Russkiier's Avatar


Russkiier
02.16.2012 , 08:59 PM | #434
if you want to feel how the different AC plays, roll an alt on the opposing faction
if you are opposed to rolling alts of a different faction, why should Bioware give you choices when you have already decided to shut choices away

furthermore,
Quote:
Yeah, a trooper would be the druid of this game if they let you advanced class switch. Of course, WoW still has plenty of players that aren't druids... maybe all those warriors and rogues haven't gotten the memo yet?
because shamans are not as good at tanking or healing or dps as a warrior, mage, or preist
they can fufill one of those roles mediocrely, and then add buffs to the party to make EVERYBODY be better at their job (yeah i know mediocrely isnt a word, my bad)

an assassain CAN tank proficiently and a sorceror CAN heal proficiently, why do you demand BOTH, just roll an alt

subrosian's Avatar


subrosian
02.16.2012 , 11:44 PM | #435
No.

Allowing advanced class switching encourages Flavor-Of-The-Month classes, class stacking and abuse of raid positions. It allows a raid leader with a Powertech Tank, OP Healer and DPS Sorcerer to flip them into Assassin Tank, BH Healer and Sniper without losing the levels and gear they had previously invested.

This denies new players an opportunity to get into raids (why recruit that Sniper I need and rotate a bench when I can have people respec?), it devalues the uniqueness of each class, it downplays the importance of spec mastery (ideal comp trumps the difference between "excellent" and "absolute best" execution - no, don't compare "bad" to "good" that gap doesn't actually exist in competitive raiding) and it makes investing in alts worthless.

-

"But I don't want to put in the work to level an alt! I think my Assassin should be a Sorcerer on a whim!".

Tough.

That barrier NEEDS to exist, it preserves the end game. After all, why stop at AC? Why can't I just push a button and change my class into another class? "But that's not what I'm arguing..." yes, it absolutely is, you're just using the semantics of "advanced class" to cover up what you're really asking for: a shortcut to be whatever classes you want.

Rift tried that, it was, and still is, a disaster in PVP, and they have basically been doing everything in the power to move *away from that idea* in recent design. It doesn't work, it leads to problems, and it causes class / spec imbalances to become the norm for raiding. Currently there is a barrier that puts a huge time block on class / spec stacking beyond the ultra-high-end (where it belongs) - with such a change, it becomes the norm for all raiders and PVPers - not a good thing.
subrosian
<Epitome>
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MeanMartian's Avatar


MeanMartian
02.17.2012 , 07:51 AM | #436
Quote: Originally Posted by Microwavegerbil View Post
Yes, advanced classes share a storyline, that puts them on par with EVERY class in WOW where there are no unique storylines past the starting areas. That doesn't mean you can switch classes in WoW, it doesn't mean you can switch classes here.
Switching advanced classes here, not classes. And, as I have pointed out repeatedly, in WoW you can level an alternate class on completely different story lines. If a story line is being done for the first time, it's unique.

I level a mage in WoW, it's a blood elf. It gets all the way to 85 on fresh new content, at 58 it travels to dreaded Hellfire Peninsula, at 70 it travels to Borean Tundra, at 80 it goes to Mount Hyjal. I level a priest in WoW, it's a forsaken. It starts with COMPLETELY DIFFERENT quests in a completely different zone. Up to 58 I do not step into a single zone that I've already quested in. At 58 it travels to Silithus, at 60 it skips Hellfire and goes to Zangarmarsh, at 70 to Howling Fjord, at 80 to Vashijr. Completely unique leveling experience, repeating none of the same quests or zones. That you continue to assert that doing around 30 unique class specific quests and repeating the same 120 or so side quests gives you a better replay value is laughable to me. Especially laughable because we are discussing someone who can't do 30 unique class specific quests, we are discussing someone who has to do the exact same 30 unique class specific quests twice.

Your posts cause me to condescend to you because you can't hold the thread of an argument, you can't make an assertion that stands up to the least bit of analysis, and you can't seem to realize this.

You want to say something smart and relevant, my suggestion would be start by arguing what you know. You don't know the design philosophy behind this game, so stop trying to say you know the reason why advanced class switching was never introduced. You don't know about WoW, apparently, so stop trying to tell me about WoW. Argue what you know.
I don't care what you believe unless you can tell me why you believe it.

Erevan_Kindelar's Avatar


Erevan_Kindelar
02.17.2012 , 07:56 AM | #437
Aside from the arguments about "you should not be able to switch from rogue to mage" or semantic equivalents, the game is pretty damned clear when you are choosing your AC that once you have chosen it, you cannot un-make that change.
Ultimately, it does not matter what WoW or any other game does, because SWTOR is not WoW, no matter how much people want it to be or how much some people try to say it is a WoW clone.
SWTOR does not allow you to change your AC, so either delay making the decision until you have an opinion one way or the other, or be prepared to reroll the character if you later decide that you made the wrong choice.

Bioware are all about one-time choices - most or all of their games have the same "make your choice and live with the consequences" mechanic in them.
No, really! I am telling the truth, honestly! Look I can prove it, I am a politician! I am as honest as the day is long!
Besides, I am a terrible liar, everyone can see when I am lying - my lips are moving... oh damn, err, that last comment was off the record, right?

Bidoofaloof's Avatar


Bidoofaloof
02.17.2012 , 12:18 PM | #438
This is essentially asking to be able to change your class. Thats a no.

Ten levels dont take long at all and you are given every single warning that your choice is final. Do your research and stop playing the character if you feel like it doesnt suit you.

The only change I could invision is making the advanced class selection at level one. It wouldnt change anything but it might instill a bit more of a finality to it all.

MeanMartian's Avatar


MeanMartian
02.17.2012 , 12:42 PM | #439
First, off thank you for making actual arguments.

Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]No.

Allowing advanced class switching encourages Flavor-Of-The-Month classes, class stacking and abuse of raid positions. It allows a raid leader with a Powertech Tank, OP Healer and DPS Sorcerer to flip them into Assassin Tank, BH Healer and Sniper without losing the levels and gear they had previously invested.
Flavor-Of-The-Month classes are a design flaw that invariably occur and will occur in this game regardless. I'd say that Flavor-Of-The-Month rollers actually provide a service by helping the developers identify game imbalances earlier.

Now, as for class stacking and abuse of raid positions? What your describing is a good thing. But you finish your thought in the next paragraph, so I'll hold off.

Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]This denies new players an opportunity to get into raids (why recruit that Sniper I need and rotate a bench when I can have people respec?), it devalues the uniqueness of each class, it downplays the importance of spec mastery (ideal comp trumps the difference between "excellent" and "absolute best" execution - no, don't compare "bad" to "good" that gap doesn't actually exist in competitive raiding) and it makes investing in alts worthless.
So you think it's desirable that a guild recruit a bench warmer for a single fight, a player that sits around all raid night waiting for ONE fight to pop up? How is that a good thing to you when that same guild can recruit an operative with a sniper off spec and use him the entire evening?

Of course, for all your talk of end game you're showing a dramatic lack of understanding about how end game raiding works. In a progression guild they're not going to grab a "new player" to rotate on a bench. They're going to have one of their existing players to roll an alt. Then they don't need to recruit a guy to just sit on the bench all night, they're going to drag the raiding night to a halt, have an existing player log out of his Operative, log on with his Sniper, do one fight, then log out and back in with his Operative. There is no "new player" benefit here.


Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]"But I don't want to put in the work to level an alt! I think my Assassin should be a Sorcerer on a whim!".

Tough.

That barrier NEEDS to exist, it preserves the end game. After all, why stop at AC? Why can't I just push a button and change my class into another class? "But that's not what I'm arguing..." yes, it absolutely is, you're just using the semantics of "advanced class" to cover up what you're really asking for: a shortcut to be whatever classes you want.
Ah, and my respect for you dwindles and disappears. Look up "slippery slope fallacy" then look up "strawman fallacy" then realize you tried to justify a strawman fallacy with a slippery slope fallacy. Now understand why I'm laughing at you.

Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
Rift tried that, it was, and still is, a disaster in PVP, and they have basically been doing everything in the power to move *away from that idea* in recent design. It doesn't work, it leads to problems, and it causes class / spec imbalances to become the norm for raiding. Currently there is a barrier that puts a huge time block on class / spec stacking beyond the ultra-high-end (where it belongs) - with such a change, it becomes the norm for all raiders and PVPers - not a good thing.
Class/spec imbalances should be fixed by the developers, not used as an excuse to limit play. You're done here, go away.
I don't care what you believe unless you can tell me why you believe it.

MeanMartian's Avatar


MeanMartian
02.17.2012 , 12:45 PM | #440
Quote: Originally Posted by Bidoofaloof View Post
This is essentially asking to be able to change your class. Thats a no.
As has been explained a few times already, this is asking to change your advanced class. I understand there's a myth percolating that the advanced class is somehow a class, but the facts just don't hold that up.
I don't care what you believe unless you can tell me why you believe it.