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Character Appearance should not require effort

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Character Appearance should not require effort

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.29.2011 , 10:06 AM | #1
It often comes up in discussions about orange gear that it works well because you can, in theory, acquire any look you like, provided that you "work hard enough to achieve it." This, to me, sounds ridiculous. This is a game, and while it's perfectly justifiable, even expected that plenty of rewards would take a certain amount of work to achieve, appearance management should not be one of them.

Sure, gaining new appearances can and should take some effort, I am NOT talking about a system that would allow you to pick any level 50 armor you want at level 1, or that would allow a Trooper to run around in Sage robes without consequences, I'm just talking about a very basic appearance management system that does not require you to jump through all sorts of hoops just to retain an appearance that you'd already acquired, while also progressing your stats.

This should not be difficult.

You should not have to spend more money to do this. You should not need to have any specific crafting skills involved. It should not take more than one player, you should not need to remove and replace mods, it should just happen. A player should be able to effortlessly flip through any costume pieces that he's acquired over his career, and choose the one he likes best at the moment. If, five minutes later, he decides to try on something else, he should be able to do so, and there should not be a cost involved, and he should be able to do so again and again and again without penalty.

Now if a system like that were implemented, there would be a great demand for armor of all types, not just orange ones, because ANY armor could grant the appearance that you like, and being able to shift through them easily would make variety a much more desirable trait than in the current model where you need to spend thousands of credits swapping mods around even IF you have orange versions of both pieces. It would also make armors of all types desirable because you could retain the stats of them regardless of their appearance, so armors that have good stats for your level, but that clash with the rest of your gear, or just look silly in and of themselves, you can throw on anyways, and use the appearance management system to ignore their silly appearance.

Plenty of games do this already, and it works just fine. SWtOR do this too. Let's stop making silly claims about how it's a good thing that appearance control is difficult, or that having better appearance controls would allow Sages to run around in Trooper armor (it wouldn't have to), let's just work together to get this done.

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
12.29.2011 , 10:10 AM | #2
I think the hardest part of it is paying to rip out your old mods when you find something better than what you're wearing now, at least while you're leveling. I'm kinda lucky that I found my smuggler jacket when I did, since it wasn't as expensive to rip out the old stuff.

I still catch some flak, though. Apparently it's a no-no to want to look like a regular Joe Schmoe as a Jedi, and I should want to look like a Space Monk getting ready for his morning Gregorian chants.
The average person thinks he isn't.
-Anonymous

The_Archon's Avatar


The_Archon
12.29.2011 , 10:16 AM | #3
I can't agree here.

You want everyone, regardless of level or skill or time invested, to have any set of gear in the game?

Raximillian's Avatar


Raximillian
12.29.2011 , 10:32 AM | #4
It should require effort. I'm currently soloing black talon to get the moddable heavy sith armor for my compaion (cloak and hood, awesome!). I have ran it 6 times, and no drop yet. I know when it finally drops, it will be really worth it

Everything in the game needs some kind of effort. Things that are handed out completely lose their value.

Aseku's Avatar


Aseku
12.29.2011 , 10:35 AM | #5
After reading the OP's post, I've come to a conclusion.

I've played many games over my short gaming life, and have seen the pros and cons of different gear systems. In some games:

You have a basic costume that is worn all the time, regardless of items equipped to alter your stats.

You have a very gear driven system, where what you are wearing is shown on your avatar at all times without the option of altering it to look like something different.

You have a gear driven system but also have an Appearance system, which allows you to wear an alternate costume by equipping "Old" or "Inferior" armor pieces just for the graphical side of them, where they don't effect stats.

BioWare has attempted to do something a little different here and give us the option of either keeping up with the gear grind, as in buying all the new armor pieces in a set to maintain the "rightness" of our armor. Or you can track down a good looking Orange armor piece to mod out and keep its appearance while still being on-par with wearing dropped/crafted armor. I agree that sometimes the prices of ripping out mods is rediculous, but its free to swap in new pieces as you will. I don't need a library of different armor pieces just for the graphical differences, as it isn't realistic that I should be able to flip through 500 different chest graphics to find the one I like, while maintaining the same stats I do now. I hear the cries already: "This is a game, why do we care about Realism?" I care about realism to the point that as I level up, the armor I wear gets better looking. It only makes sense that the top-level crafted armor for Troopers starts getting better looking, more heavily armored, more bits and bobs on it. If I want to have a less-heavily-armored appearance, I can spend a little money every level and keep my old guard armor from a lucky FP run where I got all the trooper drops, looking good.

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.29.2011 , 05:02 PM | #6
Quote:
You want everyone, regardless of level or skill or time invested, to have any set of gear in the game?
No. Someone wasn't reading.

Quote:
Everything in the game needs some kind of effort. Things that are handed out completely lose their value.
But not everything in the game deserves to have a value to it. It's like if you go to a restaurant, you expect that the meal itself will cost money, you expect that a nice drink will cost money. You expect that desert will cost money, but just getting water should be free, they should bring some bread to the table for free, using the bathroom should be free, etc. If they attach a price to every single thing, including a fee just to have a chair at the table, then that seems excessive.

Some things should have a cost associated, being able to change your appearance within the options you already have access to should not be one of those.

Quote:
I don't need a library of different armor pieces just for the graphical differences, as it isn't realistic that I should be able to flip through 500 different chest graphics to find the one I like, while maintaining the same stats I do now. I hear the cries already: "This is a game, why do we care about Realism?" I care about realism to the point that as I level up, the armor I wear gets better looking. It only makes sense that the top-level crafted armor for Troopers starts getting better looking, more heavily armored, more bits and bobs on it. If I want to have a less-heavily-armored appearance, I can spend a little money every level and keep my old guard armor from a lucky FP run where I got all the trooper drops, looking good.
"Realism" is far out the door already. My character has full helmet stats, even though she never wears a helmet. My character has the stats of full plate leggings, even though her leggings are just as skintight as cloth. And don't forget that this is Star Wars, a universe in which level 50 Obiwan didn't wear anything bulkier or more "fabulous" than level 1 Obiwan. Arguments of "realism" are entirely out of place in this game when it comes to matching appearance to performance. Yes, as you level up you earn the right to wear fancier and more "impressive" types of gear, to show off your status, but there's no reason why you should have to wear this fancier gear if you prefer to to otherwise, and there's no practical benefit to making it more difficult to not wear these new looks.

Giaccobe's Avatar


Giaccobe
12.29.2011 , 05:15 PM | #7
This is all just your opinion and your viewpoint.
You believe that looking however you want should be effortless, but that's just not how most "gear chaser" games work (most MMO's, games like diablo, etc.). It takes effort to look a certain way. It would be one thing if specific gear models were restricted to certain level ranges, in which case it would be detrimental to wear them at a much higher level.

But this is not the case, as Bioware has implemented a system of upgradeable gear where you can find armor that looks a certain way, and continue using it until max level. You can even go back to different planets or flashpoints and find any gear you missed.
If anything, this system is more sophisticated than in other similar games. It may not be exactly what you want, but that's life.

Personally, I think the system's fine. It requires effort to perfectly tailor your appearance, while not restricting you to weaker gear at higher levels. Best of both worlds. Its not easy, but it gives players plenty of freedom.

pcgate's Avatar


pcgate
12.29.2011 , 05:21 PM | #8
I don't think half the responders even read what you wrote, as their responses show.

He doesn't want everyone to have whatever they want. He wants them to have access to everything they've ever EARNED.

FOR EXAMPLE: I want my starter robes to have the stats off the wonder space wizard robes of blackest night that I looted off the giant space robot on that space station in space over there.

Look in to LOTRO's method if you have not. You have an appearance tab, how you want to look, and you have a tab for what you are actually wearing. Everyone wins. This should be in every MMO.

I do like your idea, though neither it nor the one I mentioned will probably ever come to pass.

Zakkana's Avatar


Zakkana
12.29.2011 , 05:34 PM | #9
In other words folks, he's asking for something akin to WoW's transmogrification.

Ohoni's Avatar


Ohoni
12.29.2011 , 11:49 PM | #10
Quote:
But this is not the case, as Bioware has implemented a system of upgradeable gear where you can find armor that looks a certain way, and continue using it until max level. You can even go back to different planets or flashpoints and find any gear you missed.
If anything, this system is more sophisticated than in other similar games. It may not be exactly what you want, but that's life.
Bioware's system allows for more flexibility than some much older games, but it's woefully behind the times compared to others. It's basically like touting a car company for not strictly adhering to Ford's :any color you want, so long as it's black" philosophy in 2011.

Yes, you can theoretically pick up older looks, but in a way that requires FAR more hassle than such a benefit DESERVES.

Quote:

Personally, I think the system's fine. It requires effort to perfectly tailor your appearance, while not restricting you to weaker gear at higher levels. Best of both worlds. Its not easy, but it gives players plenty of freedom.
That presumes that each of those worlds has a "best" to have. But no, there is nothing good about having hassles involved in character customization, so all it is would be one good world, which is watered down by the worst the other world has to offer, making them both worse for having involved that second world at all.

Quote:
In other words folks, he's asking for something akin to WoW's transmogrification.
Ideally something more akin to DCUO's costume system, although with far fewer options at character creation. I'd even be fine with no more options at character creation, I just want freedom of choice within the appearances I've already accumulated. The average character, even by level 10, has acquired around 3-5 different tops and 3-5 different pants, and yet every level 10 character will be wearing one of 1-3 possible looks in either of those slots, either the commendation piece, the Heroic reward, or, if they're complete slackers, the highest tier story quest reward in that slot. There is no choice involved, except the choice to forgo ideal stats, only one option will give you the best possible stats. Instead, you should be able to, through no more effort than clicking a button a couple of times, wear ANY of those several pieces you'd accumulated, while retaining the stats of the very strongest piece you've accumulated.

There is no justification for it to be anything otherwise, beyond that "this is how they did it."