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Let's talk about Strike Fighters


AlexModny

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Howdy Flygirls and Flyboys!

 

I’ll be blunt. Strike Fighters need lots of love. The original design is that they are the Jack-of-All and Master-of-None but they have filled out this role too well and because of it are rarely a compelling option. We want to talk about how Strike Fighters can be made into a good option to bring in any match, by any skill level. We have some ideas of what we want to do with them but because this community is always very impressive with communication and feedback we want to get your thoughts on what you think is the best course of action. We know there are some fantastic threads and posts aplenty that already covered this information but we want to consolidate and create a focused discussion.

 

We want to set expectations though. This is just about gathering feedback and creating a focused discussion on which to possibly make changes based off of. Just a heads up and Musco made me say it :sul_tongue:

 

So! What are your pet peeves about Strike Fighters? If you could only pick one section to buff would you choose to improve their Maneuverability, Secondary Weapons, Primary Weapons or Defense? Or something different? What would make them more effective in both game modes?

 

Looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts!

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One of the issues is that at long distances Strike Fighters are destroyed by Gunships and at short distances Strike Fighters are out-turned and obliterated by Scouts. What you may have to look into is maneuverability increases or the ability to survive the Gunship ion spam.

 

Just to throw something out there, why not give a buff to ion defense for Strike Fighters. They still won't be as maneuverable as Scouts but they will have some added defense to be able to close the gap on Gunships. This could be added to the major component category of Shields, or just make it an inherent bonus to the class.

 

Oh... and I am glad to see interest from the Devs in our community again. :D

Edited by HobbesToo
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EDIT: Hmmm in my thought process of writing this post, I guess I thought that the 'strike fighter' mentioned in this post meant GSF as a whole, rather than what looks to be as in the class itself... OPPS! I'll leave my original post as is though, if it's worth anything

 

As for the strike fighter class, last time I played them they felt fine, but still felt outclassed by the Bomber class.

_______

I haven't played GSF in a while. Mostly due to interest woes and balance issues.

 

Because I haven't played in a while, my information could be incorrect, so I apologize.

 

When GSF first launched, I got really into playing the scout class, and was doing fairly good with it. I had prior commitments with regular pvp though, so I'd not be able to play it all the time. With that being said, and its waning popularity, when I got back into GSF after a major update and addition, and nerf to the scout class, it didn't have the same appeal to me.

 

The new update brought the new Bomber class, and it was pretty much that if you weren't playing this class, you shouldn't be playing at all.

 

My appeal for playing the scout class, was its speed over fire power, and I don't think I was getting that. I mean, perhaps I'm not the best player to make those calls, since I'm not the best flight sim player, but I figure I'd be alright. I suppose, if anything, I'd like to have a much longer boost to speed, even if it means at the cost of damage. And make a bigger usage of the rockets that have no lock on to encourage the use of that weapon as it is high risk to use (misses often) but can be devastating on hit.

 

My other bigger pet peeve would have to be the lock on system, which I think gets affected by latency. Someone will be in pursuit of me, and I get the lock on warning, I'll boost away or use LoS, but it seems like more often than not, I'll still get caught by the missile - can't outrun it or anything. That was always a bit frustrating.

 

Anywho, sorry for being a bit vague, it's been a while since I've played it.

Edited by MasterFeign
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I am really glad you guys are communicating on this and it feels amazing to see you guys here.

 

So to answer your questions I am going to hit them one at a time.

 

 

1. What are your pet peeves about Strike Fighters? Kill times are SO SLOW, every other ship has so many ways to avoid our burst its not even funny.

 

2.If you could only pick one section to buff would you choose to improve their Maneuverability, Secondary Weapons, Primary Weapons or Defense? Secondaries, not only would it help the strikes, but it would help the poor unfortunate ships like the T3 scout,the T2 Gunship, and the T3 Bomber that share some of these missile problems The missiles have the range for strike maneuvering to be good, they have the damage to make good burst, they just need to reliably hit targets like Scouts and Gunships, and if they CANT reliably hit them, they need to reliably hit Bombers with enough pain to warant bringing the strike. If I had to pick a number 2, it would be maneuverability. Short range weapons like Ion Laser canon and cluster missiles are good, if you can get in range to USE them, with out the engine efficiency its kind of hard to do that. If I had to pick a 3rd it would be defenses, better quick charge shield that doesnt feel like I am wearing a paper towel would mean I would have a way around the Poor maneuverability by taking that shield :p. Finally Primaries, they have good primary options but as most know, Lights and Rapids are particularly weak close range weapons, though that isnt a strike only problem even though 1 or both are on every strike.

 

3. Or something different? For now I am going to leave this to other people

 

4. What would make them more effective in both game modes? I honestly believe they just need an offensive punch to get them their, they are pretty beefy and do all right for sitting on a node and trying not to die for a few moments, but they cant pressure on that node, and in TDM they just kill WAY to slowly at any range for them to be effective against the burst damage the other meta ships can do right now.

 

The best ships in the meta right now have 1 thing in common. "threat range" IE how much area is threatened by their presence. A gunship doesnt need to move to threaten people with in 15km. A scout has enough engine efficiency and speed to allow its short range to not be a deterent for its threat range as it can close those gaps quickly enough to threaten a fairly large area. Finally the bomber is all about Area denial, its threat range isnt as large but its still very good at threatening those that come into its area.

 

Strikes would need something to increase their "threat range" be that increased maneuverability, or making those longer range missiles actually reliable.

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The main reasons I quit playing GSF mainly have to do with the UI before going into a match and the incredibly uneven teams, but I do remember trying out a few different ships when I did play.

 

The strike fighter is basically outclassed by all other ships because it's not good at anything. Sometimes something can be the best of both worlds, sometimes it's neither. In this case all other ships can either outmanoeuver or outgun the strike fighter as mentioned above already.

 

Some things that might make strike fighters interesting is having a ton of fire power on shorter range but enough to kill quickly and the ability to soak up a lot of damage, albeit for a short time to have a chance to survive bombs and long range shots. This would make the strike fighter dangerous to get close to or to allow them to get close to you.

 

Just some ideas but for me that's what would make a strike fighter better cause in the current status you can easily kill them before they have a chance or as a scout you can get away from them or kite them and slowly kill them just the same. The strike fighter needs to have something that makes it dangerous, not invincible but dangerous enough for people to worry about.

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Basically, well, everything.

 

The problem "IS" that it's a jack of all trades master of none in a game where specialization is king.

 

What would help is an all around boost to: speed, maneuverability, shields and hit points (keep damage as is if you're boosting the rest).

 

Not a huge buff mind you, but enough to make them viable.

 

They should be only a step behind in maneuverability and speed if built for such against scouts (rather then limp way behind) and be much sturdier if built for long range combat.

 

But if we are talking a single place to buff: defenses, it's what makes them fit somewhere between Bombers and scouts, their ability to take a hit and keep going is their saving grace and I would go as far as say their calling card.

 

On the subject of defenses, keep in mind that armor is not viable for them, nor is dodge and shields can be bypassed so increasing hit points is my suggestion.

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Hey Alex, I'm really glad to see a dev asking these questions. I'm a die hard strike pilot, always will be (hey I'm an X-wing fanboy. :) )

 

but boy is it dischouraging to be in my starguard a lot of the time. and I'd never even wanna touch the pike. right now missiles are just not so hot, and really they're one of the big things about strikes. honestly any attempt to address strike fighters is gonna need to address missiles. of which can be summed up as "they're harder to get a lock on with, and deal less damage at less range then rail guns." not sure how you'd address em without making em stupid OP or highly irritating though.

 

moving away from that there are a few other issues strike fighters have. I think what they need is a boost to speed and durability. not manuverability but SPEED. the gap between scouts and strikes in this regard is too great. ideally if I was redesinging GSF I'd give strikes a greater afterburn endurance, and give scouts better manuverability.

 

forcing people to choose a dogfighter or an energy fighter

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Howdy Flygirls and Flyboys!

 

I’ll be blunt. Strike Fighters need lots of love. The original design is that they are the Jack-of-All and Master-of-None but they have filled out this role too well and because of it are rarely a compelling option. We want to talk about how Strike Fighters can be made into a good option to bring in any match, by any skill level. We have some ideas of what we want to do with them but because this community is always very impressive with communication and feedback we want to get your thoughts on what you think is the best course of action. We know there are some fantastic threads and posts aplenty that already covered this information but we want to consolidate and create a focused discussion.

 

We want to set expectations though. This is just about gathering feedback and creating a focused discussion on which to possibly make changes based off of. Just a heads up and Musco made me say it :sul_tongue:

 

So! What are your pet peeves about Strike Fighters? If you could only pick one section to buff would you choose to improve their Maneuverability, Secondary Weapons, Primary Weapons or Defense? Or something different? What would make them more effective in both game modes?

 

Looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts!

 

Finally!

 

Way I see it, the type of ship classes are broken down like this:

 

Scouts: Maneuverability and Speed. They are meant to cap satellites fast and be the first to spot the enemy. Their light armor is balanced by it's firepower in close quarters and its ability to be difficult to shoot down.

 

Gunships: Range and Tactical. With its powerful cannon types, it can pick off enemies from afar as it guards a location or disable a ship for their allies to take out. It's like a moderate glass cannon, but with a bit more armor than the scout. Great when the enemy is hundreds of meters away, not so great in a dogfight.

 

Bombers: Defense and Support. When a bomber starts fortifying a satellite or an area, that's a clear sign that you either take it down before it can finish setting up its mines and turrets or get the heck out of there. Personally, I think it's a bit OP, since the mines and turrets stay spawned even after we vape the bomber. Now, I don't know if you guys have changed that since last I played GSF, but if it still is that way, you might want to make where all mines and turrets spawned by the bomber are automatically destroyed upon the ships destruction or a shortened spawn period. You literally need a third of your squadron to take out all the mines from a afar and focus fire on the bomber. It's difficult to take out a bomber in a dogfight, since it can deploy turrets or mines to blow us up. I'm sure many would agree that Bombers are the heart of the problem in terms of balanced game play in GSF.

 

Strikers: Balanced all around. Honestly, when I play on my striker on the Republic side, I think of it as an X-Wing. Meaning good shields, good armor, and impressive maneuverability (but not as good as an A-wing). Problem here is exactly what you said-- it's too well rounded. When I think of Strikers as a ratio of what ships players use in the squadron, I think of it as being close to a majority; with Scouts and Gunships tying second, while Bombers should come last.

 

I say, increase it's weapon and engine power pool and decrease the lock on time on proton torpedoes for that particular starfighter. The problem is that the power pool for weapons and engines are consumed too quickly and makes the Striker become a dead duck in space/air. Scouts run circles around them and make it difficult to lock on to them; Gunships just pick them off unless you find good cover to get closer (Scouts are actually better at doing that, because of their speed); Bombers make a joke of them when in a dogfight. The bombers just lay a mine or turret and then blows the Striker out of the sky.

 

Strikers need to be the bulk of a squadron. If anything, increasing the weapon and engine power pool, significantly, will help. Adding the decreased lock-on time on the proton torpedoes would be a plus. They should be the muscle that can take out a bomber and not the other way around.

 

That's just my opinion.

 

 

So you all know where I'm coming from, I play on my Scout (Flashfire) and Striker the most, but if I had to choose which of the two to go into a dogfight with, I'd choose my Scout, because it packs a decent punch and can duck out of a losing fight like no other. That and it's the only class that can have a shotgun-like laser cannon and fast lock-on cluster missiles.

 

I use my Scout for taking out Gunships, but I completely avoid Bombers, because they're the hardest starfighters to take down unless you're using a Gunship from afar. Scouts and Strikers get owned unless it's a 2v1 against the Bomber. And I'm saying that because of those blasted mines and turrets that can be spawned in mid-fight. Maybe if there was a channeling for those deployables that you can interrupt by shooting at the bomber, that would make it an even fight. Otherwise, the Bomber has the tactical advantage for any average player in a 1v1 fight, unless you're a Gunship shooting from afar.

Edited by Koichi
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I loved my strike fighter when GSF first came out but its a completely pointless ship now. In all honesty there is nothing you can do with the current setup to make it a more attractive option than what you already have. My Scout has burst lazers (so more burst damage, funny that), better evasion to avoid getting hit by ion cans etc, what do you think my fighter is going to do better than that in a dog fight. In a real match most are people getting three shot by fully upgraded gunships so whats the point of flying them back into the fight.

 

The best thing you could do to make strike fighters viable is to have strike fighter only matches were everyone is flying equally naff ships.

 

Is GSF going to get anything more than a possible but in no way confirmed look at Strike Fighters? While strike fighters are junk that its taken a year to realise this makes it seem a little late in the day. GSF seems to be finished with and no more time is going to be wasted on new ships or maps.

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not sure how you'd address em without making em stupid OP or highly irritating though.

 

 

 

No no, Making them Stupid OP or Highly Irritating is EXACTLY what's needed..... bassically 1 of 2 things is going to happen.

 

 

1. They buff strikes in a way that EVERYONE in the community is like... ya... that's good they needed that well done. Then a month or 2 later when every one has figured out how to counter them or realize they STILL arent up to snuff of the better ships they get relegated back to "not existing in the meta" and every one realizes the buff truly wasnt enough... or

 

2. They buff strikes in a way that a few are like YES!!!! while others are like... WHAT!!!! THAT'S SO OP... then a few months later when the dust clears and we see a bunch of new "x class is OP" threads... we actually see more then 1 of them being Strike fighters.... when Super Serious night happens on bastion, you see people switching between all 4 ship types, and the cries of OP are met with No, that's what they needed to be competitive, if they are OP so is these other 6 ships which dominated the Meta for a year before hand. Let's face it we see "gunships are OP", "Scout are OP" and "bombers are OP" still ALL the time, if the strike is going to make it into the meta, it needs something it can do that is "OP"

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I don't use strike fighters because they have the lock on missiles which are completely useless cos its not possible to keep the curser on a target for the 50 years it takes them to lock on.

 

Yep. That's what I mentioned as well in my post, a few posts up.

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I don't use strike fighters because they have the lock on missiles which are completely useless cos its not possible to keep the curser on a target for the 50 years it takes them to lock on.

 

Even if you miraculously managed to finish the lock on you got another 100 years to wait for a reload after the person BROKE the first missile launch :p Seriously, I think its been said and shown, with Disto and just about any missile break, if its not Clusters you can basically dodge Lock on Missiles for eternity, just ignore them they dont exist.

 

Oh what you like the look of the damage on that concussion missile over those clusters.... here let me replace it with its ACTUAL damage numbers...... 0..... there that's how much damage it does.... its very consistent.

Edited by tunewalker
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Make progression faction wide, if you have more than one alt on imp or rep side you have to choose which one will be GSF, or level all of them. Share progression and you might get more people.
That's pretty much my feeling, too.

I don't have a clue about balance because the character I may want to play GSF on at any given time has to start from the bottom so I end up not playing.

Edited by Rankyn
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I AM EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Ok. That said, when I play a strike fighter, what I notice is that the secondary abilities are too difficult get off without being shut down, and a lack of speed (maneuverability is fine) that makes them easy targets for gunships/scouts.

 

My vote would be to increase the speed (not quite to Scout Level, but significantly). It would also significantly reduce the lockout & lock on time of missiles and torpedoes. They do good damage, provided they can actually hit, but it is near impossible to get them off in the first place, and most ships just dodge it anyways. So in order for these ships to be viable the secondaries are going to need some serious buffing.

 

Also: Just a small request, give Interdiction Missiles to the Pike/Quell. That ship is designed to be a missile boat, and they would probably serve an excellent purpose there. They make more sense there than on a T3 Gunship.

 

Point of note: I am primarily a scout pilot here, but I also enjoy gunships. Currently, I only fly a strike fighter against teams of new players for the challenge.

 

 

Thank you Bioware for noticing our GSF community. We appreciate it.

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My biggest issue with strikers isn't the class itself, it's how they compare to other classes. Their main issue is lock-on reliance due to their lack of speed, turn-rate, and range. In a world of two lock-breaks, tons of range, and speed. Strikers can only really fill one role, trolling. Essentially spooking gunships, damaging bombers, or keeping scouts occupied for a (very) short while.

 

Best way to increase the use of the striker class with minimal effort?

Set disto feild to only have a 33% chance to break locks. Watch as the striker makes a comeback, and listen to the cries of gunship and scout pilots everywhere as suddenly they don't have two guaranteed lock breaks. Watch them freak out as they only have a 1/3 chance of not being worried when they hear the lock-on.

 

And I'm sure I just made a lot of enemies.

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It's a bit unsettling that so many people that don't even play the game are replying to this post.

 

As someone that has played the game almost daily since launch and plays on ten different servers, here's my take:

 

1. What are your pet peeves about Strike Fighters?

Strike Fighters are super fun to play! The problem is that picking one puts your team at a disadvantage because they don't offer anything better/different from what a Scout can do. A Strikefighter is basically a slow, poorly turning, inefficient boosting, low evasion, low DPS version of a Scout. The only bonus given to Strikes is slightly more HP against mines and Railgun Drones. And Strikes also get the superior Heavy Laser Cannons. However, Scouts get Rocket Pods which are somewhat similar to Heavy Laser Cannons (similar range, shield piercing, armor ignore). Rocket pods have a bit lower base accuracy and significantly higher tracking penalty, but when they are straight-shot with Target Telemetry active, the DPS is pretty similar. So when you look at it that way, the Strike really only excels at eating mines and Railgun Drones. If you want to eat mines and Railgun drones, you should be flying a Charged Plating+Deflection Armor Bomber (Domination mode).

 

 

The BIGGEST problem with Strike Fighters is that a half decent Quarrel/Mangler player can completely disable them over and over again with Ion Railgun. There's absolutely nothing the Starguard/Rycer or Pike/Quell can do to escape. The Clarion/Imperium is ok here because it can use Power Dive (zero engine requirement) to escape and hide behind a structure to regenerate engines. The second biggest problem is Target Telemetry + Burst Laser Cannon Flashfire/Sting attacks. These attacks absolutely melt Starguard/Rycer or Pike/Quell and there's not much they can do to escape unless they have teammates nearby to help. Again, the Clarion/Imperium isn't too bad here because it can Power Dive away and also use Repair Probes to tank more damage.

 

2. If you could only pick one section to buff would you choose to improve their Maneuverability, Secondary Weapons, Primary Weapons or Defense? Or something different? What would make them more effective in both game modes?

 

I think each of the three Strikes would benefit most from different changes:

 

-Clarion/Imperium - give it a useful secondary such as Concussion missiles.

-Starguard/Rycer - give it a useful short range primary such as Burst Laser Cannons.

-Pike/Quell - give it interdiction missiles.

 

These changes would probably make the Clarion/Imperium a properly balanced ship because it is already a very strong tank with Repair Probes. Giving it a useful secondary would give it the extra teeth it needs. However, the Starguard/Rycer and Pike/Quell would still need some work.

 

 

If you were going to make only one change to the entire chasis to fix it without making it similar to the Scout class, I think maybe giving it super tight turning (i.e. better than Scout turning) would be a welcome change. Either that or give the Quell/Pike and Starguard/Rycer the Power Dive engine choice.

Edited by RickDagles
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I more or less stopped playing mainly because of lack of things to do. You have two game modes for this system, all out red vs blue or all out red vs blue while you capture and hold a point to fill a bar. When you grinding up points to upgrade your ship it gets boring. With that said I haven't played it in a long time so I may have forgotten terms or names of weapons and/or abilities. I may also remember things wrong, so forgive me if I am.

 

I flew mostly strike fighters, love them. They have great fire power and if lvled right you can have the speed to close in on a gun ship. It takes tactics really, I'll launch a torpedo at them and one of two things will happen, they take the hit and either blow up or get heavily damaged or they hit their engine ability to get out off the way, more often then not ramming into the asteroid they are "hiding" next to, but for those who are on the move i hit my engine ability and close in on them switching to my cluster missiles and pouring fire power into their backsides.

 

In these cases i feel the Strike fighter is fine, no changes really needed. Its just in how you use the fighter. What I think should be done is what ever is done to the Strike fighter the other classes of fighters need to be looked at and when I say that I mean their roles.

 

Scouts are fast and maneuverable, and should be lacking is fire power and defenses, but what we are actually seeing, imo, is a faster more maneuverable Strike fighter. Yes they seemingly have weaker shields and hull but their fire power often seems on par, or in some cases have more fire power. Especially, with a fully upgraded Burst Laser Cannon that can nearly kill anything with one or two shots. I think they should be restricted to low powered, but fast firing, blaster weapon only. While the larger fighters have access to the more powerful but on average slower firing, laser cannons.

 

Bombers as a area denial class is brilliant, I like how they are mostly dependent on their mines, probes and missiles/torpedoes for offense. Harder then anything to kill but still ultimately need to rely on squad mates if they really want to survive long.

 

Gunships... the snipers of space... I hate their concept. Never have i seen anything like them in a flight sim. Gunships in star wars are suppose to be larger ships, 20 meters to 50 meters in size, with turreted blaster/laser cannons dotting their hulls and were very dangerous to any type of star fighter class. Not some sniper hiding near a rock. But in these things need to remain then the change i would make to them is when they switch between their rail guns, there is a longer activation time. Not a longer charge up to fire, a delay where the weapon just simply can't be used due to the ship shunting power and switching system to use the other weapon. No more ion shot followed immediately with a slug any more. I also feel they can take too much damage, mot as much as a bomber but more then a strike fighter and imo that's too much. I feel they should be between scouts and strikes, not strikes and bombers.

 

And before anyone says that's not fair, that the other classes won't have that delay, i say make it a mechanic across the board. Now even the strike fighters and scouts can't switch between their torpedoes and cluster missiles with out that delay. You know what that does? kinda ruins my tactic, which i described up top, for dealing with them. But in the end that's what I want, game changes. Something different. Now I mean between the same type of weapons, A strike switching from laser cannons to ion cannons would have the delay, but not the torpedoes that are already up and ready, but if they switch from torpedoes to cluster missiles there's that delay again.

 

As i wright this I find my self feeling that its not the Strike fighter that needs changing like the Devs seem to want us to think. Like i said i feel they are a well balance class, hell they even said its so well balanced they think its broken. They aren't. Maybe a change here and there may be needed... But IMO not much. I think the devs just want to "fix" the Strike fighters so they don't have to fix all the other classes.

 

Like I said up top the Roles of a class need to be looked at and from what even the devs have said the Strike fighter meets its role, the others not so much.

 

I also want to see more game modes, like assaulting the other teams capital/mother ship. Something where all the classes can show off their roles. Scouts harassing and/or zerging the enemy players, Bombers putting their payloads into the side of capital ships, Strikes switching between both those roles. Make it so we have to weave our way through defending ships, Thranta and Terminus classes that are actually dangerous, unlike those stations we constantly have to capture and hold, to get to the mother ship. Make it so that we could even destroy the defending ships to give our selves a advantage for a while till another hypers in to take its place. GIVE US A FLEET BATTLE.

 

(Note i didn't mention gunships in that last bit, They are rubbish and have no role in real space battle.)

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\

 

-Clarion/Imperium - give it a useful secondary such as Concussion missiles.

-Starguard/Rycer - give it a useful short range primary such as Burst Laser Cannons.

-Pike/Quell - give it interdiction missiles.

 

 

Concussions ARE NOT.... and have never been... a Useful Secondary.. name 1 ship that uses it in the Meta.. you cant cus it doesnt exist, Conc missiles are bad, giving a bad ship another bad component with out doing anything else will not fix the ship.

 

Star guards already have good short range weapons... Ion Laser and Cluster missile... guess what, they arent effective on this ship cus boost efficiency is aweful enough that close range weapons are bad on anything that's not a Scout.

 

Pike That would do a whole lot of jack except make it a crappier Condor, cus Condor has BLC AND powerdive AND Disto break, AND slug railgun.

 

 

I think I have seen you post in "buff strike fighters" things before, trust me they are not as close to competitive as you think they are.

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It's a bit unsettling that so many people that don't even play the game are replying to this post.

 

That is likely going to be a major downside to this thread. However, the next post does bring up a point about scouts using heavy weapons.

 

Any gun that can 3 hit a bomber (such as BLC) should be considered a heavy weapon, and restricted to heavier ships (IE the bomber and gunship classes) I've spoken with several pilots on this subject and many seem to be in agreement.

 

An example of why strikers are considered useless:

I was in a match with a lot of decent pilots on our side, and the enemy team was decently outmatched overall. However, one sting using BLC's ended up getting 29 kills with only 3 deaths. This sting killed gunships, bombers, strikers, and other scouts. Melting my bomber in 2-3 hits. Out of his 3 deaths, i had 1 and 1 assist on him.

Edit: The reason for me bringing this up is that no striker could do this, although gunships and bombers could come close to it.

 

No striker has that kind of firepower or tankyness, so why then does a scout? When a single scouts offensive and defensive capabilities outmatch any strikers in every way, how can anyone be expected to play strikers? And I'm sure I just made more enemies by pointing this out.

Edited by CommanderKiko
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I'm just going to toss this out there...

 

What if we add in a new component specced just for strikes:

 

Engine to Armor Transfer or Shield to Armor Transfer (or both)

 

This will convert X% of shield/engine power straight to X% increased Damage Reduction for a brief time. But, since every other class has some way to pierce Damage Reduction through Armor, perhaps allow this component to take reduced damage from all armor-piercing weapons as well. So their armor-piercing perks wouldn't work for a time being.

 

I also think that the choice between the two should be considered because Directional Shields are very good, as well as the ability to barrel roll out of stuff or Retro into a wall. (Classic). This perk should only be given to Strikes, since other classes have utilities only given to their specific classes.

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for me more important is to fix the controls of starfighter in general. I was super excited when it was announced and super disappointed with its release. I was expecting a type of control like warthunder, the current controls feel awkward to me... Edited by Ziddal_the_green
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for me more important is to fix the controls of starfighter in general. I was super excited when it was announced and super disappointed with its release. I was expecting a type of control like warthunder, the current controls feel awkward to me...

 

The controls and interface in GSF need some love (joystick controls anyone?) ,some of the UI issues like: knowing how much health my allies have, being able to find a team mate, knowing when a miss happened because I actually "missed" and not because of dodge and so on...

 

 

P.S. Try Star Conflict by the same company as War Thunder, what I like is that the ship class that can snipe is an actual gunship, it's a slow moving/turning capital ship full of guns with heavy shield and a tick hull.

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Thank you for posting, Alex! We have been waiting for dev contact for a long, long time. I hope it continues.

 

UPDATED: After all the discussion here, I'm going to make my final suggestions the following:

 

1) Make Strike after burner activation/sustain cost equal to Scouts. They will still be slower and less maneuverable than Scouts, but at least they will have similar endurance.

 

2) Give Strikes a flat damage boost to both primaries and secondaries, to make ignoring a Strike a dangerous proposition, at any range. Strikes need to be able to accomplish SOMETHING under a satellite, so that is why the flat damage boost is still necessary, even in addition to the below suggested Range and Accuracy buffs. The damage boost need not be 100% like Damage Overcharge, but I think it needs to be at least +50% to move the needle on Strike presence and influence in a battle.

3) Give Strikes a significant Range boost to both primary and secondary weapons. Range would help Strikes do more damage (even with melee weapons like Rapids, LLC, and Ions) from mid-range, where they are comfortable. It would also make their missiles easier to lock on with.

 

4) Give Strikes a significant Accuracy boost to primary and secondary weapons. (Yes I know they currently do not have secondary weapons affected by Accuracy, but one of my other suggestions is to give Pikes Rocket Pods. Accuracy would help them deal better sustained damage against Evasive targets, and would make up for the fact that they don't have many inherent Accuracy buffs on their weapons, nor access to Targeting Telemetry.

 

None of these changes present any threat to the other three classes of ships, and all of these changes would help new pilots significantly (without them having to do anything specific to take advantage of them).

 

Now for specific variant/component changes:

 

5) Remove Charged Plating from the Star Guard and replace it with Feedback Shield. Charged Plating is a trap on a ship that can't stack damage reduction. Feedback Shield is a good, solid shield that would synergize great with Ion Cannons and Cluster Missiles, and give the Star Guard some extra teeth against Scouts.

 

6) Give the Star Guard Burst Laser Cannons. Not every Strike should have them, but this Strike--the primary weapon specialist--should have them.

 

7) Give the Pike Retro Thrusters. They synergize extremely well with aquiring missile locks, and they would give the Pike another medium cool down missile break.

 

8) Give the Pike Interdiction Missile. Currently, a Condor using both Clusters and Interdiction Missile can do quite well, due to both missiles having wide arcs and short lock-on times. You basically spam Clusters to drain lock-breaks, then hit with Interdiction. As the missile specialist, the Pike should have access to this combo. Alternatively (or maybe in addition), you could give Pikes Rocket Pods. Just keep in mind their effectiveness will be limited without Targeting Telemetry.

 

9) Give the Clarion Concussion Missile. Concussion Missile is not the ace dog fighting super missile it was originally conceived to be. There is no danger giving it to the Clarion, and it would give the ship a bit more offensive capability against all kinds of targets.

 

10) Give the Clarion Heavy Laser Cannons. HLC's are the quintessential Strike weapon, and every Strike should have them. They would cement the Clarion as a great anti-minelayer ship, as well as giving it more capability to assault satellites that have turrets.

 

Some may think that #9 and #10 make the Clarion too much of a dogfighter, when it is supposed to be a support ship.

 

I disagree. The fact that Clarions lack Thrusters will always be a hit against their space superiority credentials--do they really need to be so offensively neutered as well?

 

Giving them HLC's and Concussion Missiles would open up the kinda of Clarion you could make. You could make an anti-Bomber Clarion, a healing/support Clarion, a jousting specialist, or a mid-range harasser. And on that last option, you could complement the HLC's by taking Combat Command, or you could complement your Concussion Missiles using Remote Slicing, or you could just stick with Repair Probes for extra survivability.

 

At this point, I think that is about the best set of changes I can recommend.

 

Consider everything below just context for how the above suggestions were reached.

 

-----------------------Past updates follow -----------------------

 

EDIT: I'm going to leave my original post in place, since it contains useful information and context, but I actually think there IS a silver bullet, which I present in this quote block:

 

It came from the realization that, in Deathmatch, when I'm flying a Strike and get Damage Overcharge, suddenly the class feels right--especially in terms of Time to Kill.

 

A DO-Strike's weapons do not instantly kill, but they kill quickly enough that any target needs to get out of the Strike's arc fast or it's going to die. Missiles and torpedoes with Damage Overcharge finally feel worth all the trouble it takes to land them.

 

In all the replies, there has been a lot of consternation about breaking other classes to try and fix Strikes. I think there's a simple solution that has no chance of that:

 

Give Strikes perpetual Damage Overcharge.

 

Before you balk, just think about it a bit.

 

It makes lore sense. Strikes are meant to be offensive powerhouses.

 

It gives Strikes a strong, unique identity. If you get in front of one and it gets you centered, you're going to melt.

 

If, despite your plethora of cover, missile breaks, and lag protection, you let a Strike land a Concussion Missile or Torpedo on you, you're going to get hurt really bad.

 

If you're guarding a node and see a Strike incoming, your first thought isn't, "Good, our first catch of the day."

Instead, if you're a Scout, your thought is, "I need to use my superior mobility to flank and get behind it."

 

If you're a Gunship, your thought is, "I need to Ion Railgun this thing before it gets in range."

 

If you're a Bomber, your thought is "I need support. --> [Ops] Strike approaching C." And this is entirely appropriate, as we've always wanted Strikes to be good counters for Bombers.

 

And if two Strikes approach your node and you're alone, you're likely going to die (this simply isn't true right now).

 

In Deathmatch, Strikes become priority targets, just like Gunships. Leave them unharassed and they will chew up your team. Joust them and you will suffer, but flank them as a Scout or outrange them as a Gunship and you'll be fine. But ignore them and you won't be fine.

 

As a bonus, the starter Star Guard, with Rapids, Heavies, and Concussion Missiles would be a solid, threatening craft with strong distinction from the starter NovaDive.

 

Best of all, the rest of the classes remain unchanged. A powerful new kid on the block has shown up, but Scouts, Gunships, and Bombers are still all able to perform their current roles.

 

And it's dead simple to implement ... and dead simple to revert if it turns out broken.

 

The one open question--can Strikes still get the Damage Overcharge Powerup? :D Sure. Though it should add another base 100% bonus damage, so that the Strike is doing triple damage. This is how Damage Overcharge was before. It shouldn't double the doubling the Strike would inherently enjoy.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS:

 

 

Unfortunately, I do not believe there is a single major reason Strike fighters suffer, nor is there a single silver bullet that will fix them. Their inefficacy in the meta is determined just as much by the specialized strengths of the other classes (along with some specific components) as it is determined by the Strike's own chassis and component choices.

 

I'll try to break it out as best I can. I'll use Republic fighter names for simplicity.

 

EDIT: My below suggestions should not be taken into account without also reading this reply, which outlines the risks of such solutions well.

 

Strike Offensive Weaknesses

 

Offense.1) No surprise burst damage.

Every single Strike weapon involves sustained warning to your target. Whether it's a stream of Rapids, Quads, or Heavies, or the lock-on tone of a missile, your target always has ample time to respond before taking significant damage.

On the other hand, every other class has at least one way to deliver sudden, untelegraphed damage:

 

NovaDives can combine primary weapons and rocket pods (which, unlike missiles, offer no warning), along with Targeting Telemetry to create not only increased criticals, but criticals that deal increased damage.

 

Flashfires can do the same with Quads + Pods, or they can just use Burst Laser Cannons (which inherently do surprise burst damage). Again, using Targeting Telemetry or Blaster Overcharge further increases the surprise burst damage.

 

All Gunships have Slug Railguns, which by their nature deal a sudden burst of shield-piercing, armor-piercing damage, with no warning except a charge-up glow (if you're looking at the Gunship).

 

Quarrels have Ion Railgun, which deals a sudden burst of high shield-damage (negating the one thing the Strike is "best at") and crippling the target's mobility (which for a Strike is already in trouble). Again, it has no warning except if you happen to be looking toward the charge-up glow.

 

Warcarriers have their three drones, all of which strike without warning: the railgun drone fires just like a railgun, the Interdiction Drone immediately applies its crippling snare (while doing damage), and the missile drone releases a missile with no warned lock-on time. The only warning happens once the missile is already flight. Seeker Mines are the same--there is only a very narrow window in which the target can react to use its missile-break.

 

Minelayer mines deal their damage with no time to react. Seismic Mines bypass shields (again negating the Strike's main strength), and Interdiction Mines immediately cripple victim mobility.

 

All of the above weapons and combinations have the ability to very rapidly kill or cripple a target with little to no warning. Note that none of those combinations involve missiles.

 

The Strike, on the other hand, has no access to Rocket Pods, Railguns, Drones, nor Mines. The Stirke's secondary weapon offense is limited entirely to missiles, all of which offer significant warning to their target. Tragically, it is even deprived of the one burst damage primary weapon in the game. It has always been a mystery why the Star Guard--as the primary weapon specialist--does not have access to Burst Laser Cannons, while Flashfires, Quarrels, and Condors do.

The only way a Strike can deliver significant, lethal damage before giving a target time to react is on a Star Guard with Ion Cannons and Cluster Missiles. In that case, the Star Guard can strip the shields of a target even while locking on with a Cluster Missile. This is a strong combo, but it is very short range and severely limits the Star Guard's component choices--and it still requires landing a missile. For a class based on versatility, there should be more viable offensive options.

 

And the Pike and Clarion are simply hopeless when it comes to delivering surprise burst damage, as they cannot even pull off the Ion Cannon/Cluster Missile trick. All of their offensive potential relies on sustained primary weapon fire while attempting to lock on with missiles.

 

This leads us to the next point:

 

Offense.2) Missiles are Ineffectual

Missiles require the greatest set up time, are bound by both ammo and cooldown, and offer ample warning to their targets. And yet their damage and secondary effects are largely unimpressive compared to other secondary weapons. Cluster Missiles are the exception--when fully upgraded, they do solid damage, require little lock-on time, have a very short cooldown, and have enough ammo capacity so as not to be very restrictive.

 

But by far, the biggest reason Cluster Missiles are effective is because they can be spammed. And if you can spam a missile, then you can drain the target of both their engine maneuver missile break and Distortion Field's missile break.

 

That's the real problem with missiles--there are too few missiles flying around to eat up all of the missile-break's.

One potential solution to this would be to take Distortion Field's missile break away. This would likely go far in balancing the power of Flashfires, but I know there are Quarrel enthusiasts who are concerned such a nerf would hit them too hard (since their only other missile break is the 20-second cooldown Barrel Roll). Personally, I do not share this concern--I fly a Quarrel with Feedback Shield, and missiles are rarely a concern for me.

 

If decreasing the number of missile breaks isn't palatable, then the other option is to increase the number and rate of missiles being fired. One way is to simply reduce lock-on time. I'd suggest doing this, not for Clusters, but for every other missile. Too often, long missile locks are spoiled by lag, which sours players on them (and GSF in general). Shortening lock times across the board (except for Cluster Missiles) is a safe fix that will be good for GSF as a whole..

 

Another interesting question is this: should any missiles have cooldowns at all? Or is lock-on time, warning to target, and ammo limits enough of a check to missile power? I tend to think so. A Strike firing Concussion Missiles (or even the derided Ion Missile!) as fast as he can attain locks would be very threatening and a very strong counter to Evasion, which has long dominated defense. This would be my personal suggestion.

 

This would be a soft nerf to the Pike's very weak advantage to chain fire two missiles consecutively; however, in a world where missiles have no cooldowns, the Pike's ability to spam both long range torpedoes and short-range dogfighting missiles would be make it a force to be reckoned with.

 

This change would buff Strikes, but it would also buff Sledgehammers, Condors, and the misbegotten Comet-breaker. Note that even with this buff, Star Guards and Pikes would still be largely passed over in favor of Sledgehammers and Condors, because a Mine or Railgun is superior to the ability to switch between multiple lasers or missiles.

 

So if you decided "no cooldown on missiles" was the one fix you're going to make, then make it inherent and exclusive to the Strike chassis. Then, at least, they would have a unique capability that might let them edge out Sledgehammers and Condors. I would also recommend giving Clusters (for everyone else) a longer cooldown, to prevent Flashfires from spamming them, and to re-emphasize "spammable missiles" as a unique Strike perk.

Offense.3) Switchable weapons (that aren't Railguns) is not a great #1 system ability.

In judging the value of a "switch weapon" ability, you have to consider how it compares with other #1 abilities. In particular, ask yourself, "If I could trade this ability for a mine, drone, Targeting Telemetry, or Blaster Overcharge?" For Star Guards and Pikes, the answer is "Yes, I'd give away weapon switching for one of those system abilities." For the Clarion, it is a tougher call, as Repair Probes is a solid system ability.

 

There are five ships in the game that can switch between two different weapons with the #1 key:

Star Guard (two different primary weapons)

Pike (two different secondary weapons, all of which are missiles or torpedoes)

Quarrel (two different railguns)

Comet-breaker (two different secondary weapons, all of which are torpedoes or railguns)

Condor (two different secondary weapons, all of which are missiles or railguns)

 

I think there is general agreement that of the above list, only two are worth a #1 system ability slot:

Quarrel -- but only with Ion Railgun and Slug Railgun, which complement each other so well. Switching between Plasma and Slug is of no value, as those weapons do not synergize.

Condor - since a Slug Railgun is a great, universal long-range weapon, and Cluster Missiles are a solid short-range weapon that combine well with Burst Laser Cannons

 

The Star Guard's ability to switch between primary weapons would be more valuable if it had a better set of primary weapons to switch between. Heavy Laser Cannons and Quad Cannons are great long-range weapons, but what's missing is a strong short-range weapon--namely Burst Laser Cannons, but even Light Laser Cannons. Unfortunately, Rapid Laser Cannons are just altogether underpowered and nigh-useless.

 

Unfortunately, due to the aforementioned weakness of missiles, the Pike has even further to go. The first step would be giving it access to the solid Interdiction Missile and Rocket Pods (!!! -- yes, Rocket Pods on a Strike--they would give the Pike stronger jousting skills and tons of flexibility).

 

As for the Clarion, the one Strike without a "switch weapon" system ability, its utility is solely defined by Repair Probes. Combat Command and Remote Slicing are largely ignored, the former because of its extreme cooldown, and the latter because of its underwhelming effects (and still long cooldown).

 

 

Strike Mobility Weaknesses

 

Mobility.1) Strikes are often out of engine energy.

It costs a Strike just as much engine energy to engage and sustain afterburners as it does a Bomber or Gunship. That's not only silly, but lethal given the Strike's role. Unlike a Bomber or Gunship, which--once in position, can fulfill their roles while relatively stationary--a Strike needs to boost both to get where it's going and subsequently keep boosting while fighting. In particular, it needs to keep intermittently boosting to keep enemies at optimal range (close enough to hit, but far enough to keep centered).

 

As it stands, Strikes have to spend all of their energy getting where they are going, with nothing left to actually fight and maneuver with.

 

Strike afterburner activation and sustain cost needs to be higher than Gunships and Bombers for sure--I would even say it should be equal with Scouts--especially considering that Strike base speed will still be lower.

 

But even this would not solve the problem, since ...

 

Mobility.2) Ion Railguns are ruinous to Strikes.

Strikes are uniquely disadvantaged by Ion Railgun. Lacking the Evasion afforded Scouts with Distortion Field, Strikes are easy for an Ion Railgun to hit. And when that hit comes, the Strike (which is probably already almost out of energy) is robbed of whatever engine energy it had left. It can't use Barrel Roll. It can't use afterburner. It is literally dead in space, with no chance of getting to cover, let alone presenting a threat to the Gunship which shot it.

 

Compare this to what happens with an Ion Railgun hitting other ships. When an Ion Railgun hits a Bomber (which is probably sitting on a full tank of gas), the Bomber shrugs and lurches behind nearby cover. When an Ion Railgun hits another Gunship, that Gunship has usually lost its duel, but has enough gas left to seek cover. Plus, it had a fair and even chance to win. When an Ion Railgun hits a Scout without Distortion Field, that Scout is usually either running Shield-to-Engine Converter or Power Dive, either of which can be used to get it to cover.

 

This is true of any ship with Power Dive, in fact, and so the Clarion is in a much better state against Ion Railguns than its two classic Strike siblings.

 

I believe the optimal solution here is to alter Ion Railgun, such that its draining effects are reduced depending on the target's available shields on the arc that was struck.

 

A fully charged Ion railgun does 1850 shield damage. A Strike's base shield is 1800/arc. I'd propose that, an Ion Railgun's energy drain effect should be related to how much damage it did beyond the victim's shields--this would replace its pitiful hull damage. The more damage that was leftover after the shields were brought down, the more energy drain. But if the Ion Railgun doesn't eat through the full arc of shields, then there should be no energy drain at all.

 

Not only would this offer extra protection to Strikes, which have inherently high shields, but it would buff all the high-capacity shields, and potentially sway the meta away from Distortion Field a smidge.

Mobility.3) Inability to dogfight at short range.

Strikes have stronger turning speed than Gunships and Bombers, but it is still significantly lesser than Scouts. Combined with the lack of Burst Laser Cannons, this dooms the Strike to lose any dogfight against a Scout--or even a Quarrel or Condor with Burst Laser Cannons.

Even a Quarrel, as slow as it turns, can clean up Strikes under a satellite quite easily, using Burst Laser Cannons. The Condor, which can get more turning speed and Cluster Missiles, can do so even better.

 

Ultimately, a huge problem in the game is that Rapid Laser Cannons and Light Laser Cannons are just woefully ineffective against a target that is moving quickly, or getting frequent breaks of cover--which is pretty much the name of the game under a satellite in Domination. The Strike does not have the tools (namely Burst Laser Cannons) to play that game well.

Giving Strikes Burst Laser Cannons would help here, but they are still going to lose to Scouts, who have superior turning, Evasion, and offensive cooldowns. This means that a Strike has very little chance of ousting a Scout off a node, and no chance of beating a Scout who closes on it, even in open space.

 

This is perhaps the hardest to solve. I suggest giving the Strike superior turning speed compared to the Scout. From a lore perspective, it makes sense that a space superiority fighter could turn faster than a speedy scouting craft. Plus the Scout would still have the speed and Evasion advantage, as well as its offensive cooldowns. But the Strike could claim definitively that it is the best "dogfighter".

 

Strike Defensive Weakness

 

Defense.1) There is but one Defense, and its name is Evasion.

The Strike chassis trades 5% Evasion away to get 5% Damage Reduction in return. It trades away access to Distortion Field to get Charged Plating. These are just simply bad trades, because Damage Reduction is largely useless. Not only does Damage Reduction not reduce damage to your shields, but it also does nothing to reduce the magnitude of harmful effects like snares. Worst of all, there are too many weapons with 100% Armor Piercing, which completely negate your component choice.

 

And let's not even talk about offering Charged Plating on a starter ship that doesn't have an Armor component to stack with, which is the most horrendous newbie trap in the game.

 

Evasion, on the other hand, has nothing but upside. It reduces damage taken to both your shields and hull. It saves you entirely from detrimental draining or snaring effects. One might think missiles are supposed to be the anti-Evasion weapon, but Distortion Field is the one shield in the game to offer a missile break. And there is no ubiquitous weapon upgrade that says "Ignores Evasion 100%", as there is with Armor Piercing.

 

The solution here is not to give Strikes Distortion Field or more Evasion. The solution is to make other choices viable, and to nerf the overall effectiveness of Evasion if necessary. Not only does Evasion create a Scout hegemony, but it needlessly confuses and frustrates new players. They aim at a target, dead center, shoot at it ... and nothing happens. It makes GSF look amateur and laggy and broken.

100% Armor Piercing should be reserved for very special, very hard-to-hit-with components. Personally, I think only Proton Torpedo should have it. Slug Railgun's armor piercing magnitude should be based on the range to target. Shooting at 15km? No armor-piercing. Shooting at 3km? 100%. Shooting at 10km? Maybe 40%.

 

All other weapons which currently have Armor Piercing of 100% should have it reduced to 20 or 30%, I think. If someone elects to build for Damage Reduction, they need to get something out of it, even against armor-piercing weapons.

This change, however, would necessitate a reduction in Charged Plating's magnitude and/or duration.

Conclusion

 

By no means am I presenting the above ideas as the only solutions--or frankly as the only problems Strikes have. As I said, it's a complicated, multi-faceted problem. As far as Strikes can be fixed without touching other ships, great. But I do believe that at least some small adjustments will be needed... to Burst Laser Cannons, to Distortion Field, to Slug and Ion Railgun ... in order for Strikes to carve out a lasting place.

 

Thank you again for finally stopping by, Alex. I hope this can continue to be a 2-way conversation. :D

 

Edited by Nemarus
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