You are conflating. Most of us bought RoTHC for $10. Which frankly is about right for the size of it. Now it's free.

$30 was what Tux said. I quoted him and used his numbers. Stop trolling.

Ok...

 

So this was covered in post 1....

 

Why sell an expansion for $30 when they seem to only be able to put out enough content for the likes of Makeb (which is fine), holding that content back while they get all the class stories done and delaying it, when instead,

 

They STILL can release a $30 expansion pack of just faction quests and a new planet (as they did for Makeb), and THEN charge freemium members say $6 in cartel coins (free for subs) for class stories that are released over the period of a year on that same planet? And what I mean is, say February a new planet is launched. Late March, Warrior gets a class quest on the planet, late april comes smuggler, mid june comes agent, etc.

 

See what I am getting at now?

I don't think enough f2pers would buy it to justify the cost. Do you believe that alone justifies their creation, or do you also consider this as part of a regular content update cycle and a draw to subscribers?

$30 was what Tux said. I quoted him and used his numbers. Stop trolling.

You're starting to look like Ayelinna.

Have a nice day.

$30 was what Tux said. I quoted him and used his numbers. Stop trolling.

I'm not trolling. I am correcting false information presented by you. It's not my fault you used false information.

Subs still need to pay for the expansion, like they did for Makeb.

That's the point. Your model targets f2pers, who aren't likely spenders in the first place. Expansions are able to get subscribers to pay on top of what they already pay, and subscribers are very likely to buy expansions.

Also, I think you should try and view some of the posters in this thread a little less negatively. You've had a few miscommunications back and forth(which you have chosen to interpret as an attempt to troll you), which are simply genuine misunderstandings. If someone doesn't seem to get what you're saying, try restating it. No need to immediately jump on them.

I don't think enough f2pers would buy it to justify the cost. Do you believe that alone justifies their creation, or do you also consider this as part of a regular content update cycle and a draw to subscribers?

Well, keep in mind, the main content would already be in place because the backdrop is the expansion pack, which everyone buys.

So a requirement for those class quests would be the expansion pack - a prereq if you will.

Then all we are talking about is a questline using already-made content as the setting, because most of the assets needed will have already been made for the purposes of the expansion pack, which again, everyone buys, ala makeb.

DDO, TSW, and Defiance however have adopted a fundamental business model of selling content AND expacs through their shop. Bioware to date, has not done so. Also, story is embraced by many as a "4th pillar" of content, hence the passionate uprising we saw in the forums.

 

In the datacube case, they were testing the market. The market sent blowback. Since the CM is not fundamental to the current Bioware business model of releasing classic playable content (missions, OPs, etc) it's much simpler for them to test, observe, listen to what the player base says, and then continue on accordingly. So.. story will come through either free patches or paid expacs, rather then the CM. I'm fine with it either way personally.

True.

Two out of those three are highly story focused MMO's as well though, and advertise as such.

It's a shame they chose to "test the waters" in a way that was pretty much guaranteed to blow up in their faces considering how a lot of people feel about Cartel Packs - hopefully one day they'll revisit the idea in a more palatable form.

I can imagine why they'd be hesitant to test it with a real story pack as well, since it would be expensive to make - and rather painful to recover from if it turns out no one buys it.

That's the point. Your model targets f2pers, who aren't likely spenders in the first place. Expansions are able to get subscribers to pay on top of what they already pay, and subscribers are very likely to buy expansions.

 

 

Also, I think you should try and view some of the posters in this thread a little less negatively. You've had a few miscommunications back and forth(which you have chosen to interpret as an attempt to troll you), which are simply genuine misunderstandings. If someone doesn't seem to get what you're saying, try restating it. No need to immediately jump on them.

Well, in the cases of some, (brak and andryah), the intent was to troll, not discuss. I can be certain of that now, especially with braks last comment. Knowing they are just here to flamebait, I can ignore them from here on out.

As for the others, you're right. Not going to let the trolls get to me, and I'll keep it toned down.

I will say this - some people choose to see me as having an answer for everything as combative - I prefer to think that this is instead just a well-thought out idea. I do need to express myself in a bit better tone, however.

Well, keep in mind, the main content would already be in place because the backdrop is the expansion pack, which everyone buys.

 

So a requirement for those class quests would be the expansion pack - a prereq if you will.

 

Then all we are talking about is a questline using already-made content as the setting, because most of the assets needed will have already been made for the purposes of the expansion pack, which again, everyone buys, ala makeb.

I don't quite follow.

Your OP was suggesting a way for class stories to draw additional revenue on top of expansion revenue from f2pers, as well as proposing a more flexible method of content introduction.

Here you seem to be suggesting that since the expansion was made already as a backdrop, that costs would be reduced for the model. Thing is, the same holds true if they develop everything in parallel. The cost-savings that you're speaking of don't seem to be unique to the solution provided, so they can't be used as a benefit compared to other development plans.

I could say the same for you - I pose the question as a suggestion and already countered many of the typical arguments against in the initial post, and yet you seem to keep trying to strawman the thread anyway. So back at ya - troll much?

I did not ask any questions, yet you think I need an answer, no thank you. You are the one asking questions and answering them yourself.

I will say this - some people choose to see me as having an answer for everything as combative - I prefer to think that this is instead just a well-thought out idea. I do need to express myself in a bit better tone, however.

That is exactly what you are doing, you ask a question only to answer it to people that visit your thread. That is not a discussion, you are talking to yourself hoping to gain as much audience as possible. Your suggestions, or questions are more suited to a blog format where there is no need to deal with other people input.

I can imagine why they'd be hesitant to test it with a real story pack as well, since it would be expensive to make - and rather painful to recover from if it turns out no one buys it.

Exactly. Why take the risk.

They know class story would be popular and drive sales of an expac (their established method of content expansion beyond regular patches). Still, their decision (at this time in the games life cycle) is to proceed with faction story arcs.

This is why the topic of this thread is a dead horse being flogged. But hey.. flogging dead horses IS an established hobby in game forums..... so it continues.

If they did this, honestly I'd buy them all. I am a returning player and the story is by far the largest component of why I play any game. If the story is bad I won't stick around very long.

Before I left I had leveled one of each of the 4 major classes and started in the 2nd of the opposite advanced class.. Now i'm back just trying to figure out how to play again lol...

I don't think I'm in the minority here when I say story is one of the most important things in a game. Yes end game is important is well, because it is what I have left once the story slows down, or halts.

jm2c

If they did this, honestly I'd buy them all. I am a returning player and the story is by far the largest component of why I play any game. If the story is bad I won't stick around very long.

 

Before I left I had leveled one of each of the 4 major classes and started in the 2nd of the opposite advanced class.. Now i'm back just trying to figure out how to play again lol...

 

I don't think I'm in the minority here when I say story is one of the most important things in a game. Yes end game is important is well, because it is what I have left once the story slows down, or halts.

 

jm2c

I agree. and it hasn't escaped my notice its usually the same 3-4 people giving grief over the idea of adding more story of consequence. They can be loud about it, but its just a handful.

If they did this, honestly I'd buy them all. I am a returning player and the story is by far the largest component of why I play any game. If the story is bad I won't stick around very long.

I would as well. But the point is... they have a method for adding story via patches and expacs, and they have tabled class story development for now. No amount of discussion about how they give us story content will change that.

/Pragmatism

You can push a peanut around on a plate all day long, but that won't change it into a pistachio.

I would as well.

And thats the point. It would be story, and it would sell.

Everyone wins.

Quoted for relevance. Aries_cz comment and original position on this is clear and indicative (right or wrong) of what the forum membership stated. In other words... people want more story, but want it as part of either free patches or expacs that are paid for.....NOT as CM content. I do not agree personally, but I acknowledge their feelings and views on the topic.

For the record, I stated in the original discussions something along the lines of that I was not cool with it being in packs but I would be cool with it being like Section X. I just think that Subscribers should not pay for Playable Content.

The discussion soon turned into whether Playable Content should be in CM, or if CM should restrict itself to "Vanity" items and unlocks for non-subscribers. I, again, stood on the line of those who claimed the second part, that selling Playable Content on CM would be bad.

Lot of people here who mentioned other games selling story content are forgetting that lot of these games are F2P (or Buy-2-Play). And, as I have stated, I, and if I remember that discussion properly, several others, were "sort of OK" with Story on CM being like Section X (Free to Subs, paid to others).

And thats the point. It would be story, and it would sell.

 

Everyone wins.

Except... you took my comment out of context. Remember.... you said context was important...and I agree context is important.

Here.. let me fix that for you.

I would too. But the point is... they have a method for adding story via patches and expacs, and they have tabled class story development for now. No amount of discussion about how they give us story content will change that.

 

/Pragmatism

 

You can push a peanut around on a plate all day long, but that won't change it into a pistachio.

And thats the point. It would be story, and it would sell.

 

Everyone wins.

But the question is whether it'd sell enough. While the idea of being able to parcel and sell class story to f2pers is another check-mark on the pros column for Class Story, I don't think its a gamechanger.

Except... you took my comment out of context. Remember.... you said context was important...and I agree context is important.

 

Here.. let me fix that for you.

Just giving you a lesson in it, since context hasn't been your friend - and I'm not the only one who noticed that. See the post above yours.

Lot of people here who mentioned other games selling story content are forgetting that lot of these games are F2P (or Buy-2-Play). And, as I have stated, I, and if I remember that discussion properly, several others, were "sort of OK" with Story on CM being like Section X (Free to Subs, paid to others).

I imagine that most people on the forums will always be okay with things being on the CM as long as they are free to subs... since we all are subs.

But the question is whether it'd sell enough. While the idea of being able to parcel and sell class story to f2pers is another check-mark on the pros column for Class Story, I don't think its a gamechanger.

I wasn't around for the other discussion, and I am a subscriber. Honestly if it means the difference between having and not having.. I'll pay to get what I want. Its only money and I can't take it with me.. Now don't get me wrong, I'm completely against p2w.. I just wish that my life hadn't gotten so complicated at the time when i needed to leave.

But the question is whether it'd sell enough. While the idea of being able to parcel and sell class story to f2pers is another check-mark on the pros column for Class Story, I don't think its a gamechanger.

That's the thing and indeed the question. If you don't need any additional assets, and just need time to work up the quest in whatever they use to make quests there, is the time invested to do this for a class quest and then sell it on the market worth whatever they could get for it?

And that is a question no one, NO ONE but Bioware themselves can answer. Which is why its ridiculous when some people try to answer for them. All I have done is try to come up with a concept that makes creating class quests as resource-light as possible and coming up with a way of directly profiting off of them, to allow more direct feedback to see if it is indeed worth continuing to do based on the numbers. Its both a player and a businessperson approach.

I imagine that most people on the forums will always be okay with things being on the CM as long as they are free to subs... since we all are subs.

Well, these forums are open to all (read-only).

However, as I said, if I am playing B2P game (that means, any singleplayer game or B2P MMO, or being Preferred player in SWTOR), I am cool with buying a DLC with story, if the remaining story is good, so I am not buying a "rabbit in the sack" (unknown merchandise, I am not sure if this adverb translates well into English).

However, if I am playing a paying constant money to a game that claims story is one of its major parts, you can imagine that I am a bit reluctant to pay more for story...

Well, these forums are open to all (read-only).

However, as I said, if I am playing B2P game (that means, any singleplayer game or B2P MMO, or being Preferred player in SWTOR), I am cool with buying a DLC with story, if the remaining story is good, so I am not buying a "rabbit in the sack" (unknown merchandise, I am not sure if this adverb translates well into English).

However, if I am playing a paying constant money to a game that claims story is one of its major parts, you can imagine that I am a bit reluctant to pay more for story...

I would agree, and trust me, it isn't lost on me on how unfortunate that is - however, that's exactly where the game has gone. The change in philosophy occured when there were those mass bioware layoffs. Most of the story advocates got sacked, and they put a new head producer in place. Since then, there has been this migration AWAY from story in the game, including trying to close up plot points the original staff intentionally left open for expansion (i.e. claiming now the Jedi Knight really did kill the Emperor when after originally completing the Sith Warrior story you used to get an email from the Hands assuring you that while weakened, the Knight only killed the Emperor's Voice - also see changing the False Emperor flashpoint to killing Malgus outright when before he fell into the pit (and therefore conceivably escape).

Even when you talk to the people who used to be in charge, Malgus and Revan were both made ways to stay alive, because they had big plans for both down the road.

But that change in leadership changed everything. That's why if we want story to continue, we have to show ways that they can profit off of it. Otherwise, if they even do any more planets and story going forward, expect a lot more blandness like Makeb as it relates to the richness of the class stories.