For all you people saying only bads complain about "Gear Gaps" "premades" and the like. I hate to tell you, there is a reason they put in Ranked WZs, they Do need to take out the ability to make a premade for Regular WZs, the purpose of regular WZs is TO get geared for Ranked. Its discouraging as **** to get facerolled everyday, to the point where you cant even secure a *********** medal in some WZs. For financial reasons I had to stop playing before 1.2. I had full Champions gear on my trooper when I stopped playing, now there isnt even champion gear at any vendor. So when I go up against a full group of players in full War-hero gear who can co-ordinate through team chat programs, it blows *** and makes me want to break something. That kind of gap is *********** rediculous. and THAT is what people are talking about needs to be stopped, because THAT isnt fun, and that the purpose OF a game, is to have fun. You elitists out there, that make a *********** habit of being ***** in the game, just remember, not everyone can devote every waking hour to this game, and they would like to enjoy it as well. So yes, Bioware should implment something to protect the casual players from the ********s who try to ruin it for those of us with lives.

For all you people saying only bads complain about "Gear Gaps" "premades" and the like. I hate to tell you, there is a reason they put in Ranked WZs, they Do need to take out the ability to make a premade for Regular WZs, the purpose of regular WZs is TO get geared for Ranked. Its discouraging as **** to get facerolled everyday, to the point where you cant even secure a *********** medal in some WZs. For financial reasons I had to stop playing before 1.2. I had full Champions gear on my trooper when I stopped playing, now there isnt even champion gear at any vendor. So when I go up against a full group of players in full War-hero gear who can co-ordinate through team chat programs, it blows *** and makes me want to break something. That kind of gap is *********** rediculous. and THAT is what people are talking about needs to be stopped, because THAT isnt fun, and that the purpose OF a game, is to have fun. You elitists out there, that make a *********** habit of being ***** in the game, just remember, not everyone can devote every waking hour to this game, and they would like to enjoy it as well. So yes, Bioware should implment something to protect the casual players from the ********s who try to ruin it for those of us with lives.

 

I agree with this wall of text. Some of these over geared premades can make it difficult to even get a single medal. Which is required to get anything at all from a WZ. Especially if you're bringing in a recruit geared character. You get no medals for dying again, and again, and again.

 

I thought I'd bring out a pyro 50 I hadn't pvp'd with since hitting 50, and put the recruit gear on it. One guy, a lolsmashing sentinel, killed it in literally 3.2 seconds. Yeah, I actually timed it after the 3rd time. It shouldn't have been possible to take 15.5K in 2 GCDs, unless people want to enter the realm of GCD hacks.

For all you people saying only bads complain about "Gear Gaps" "premades" and the like. I hate to tell you, there is a reason they put in Ranked WZs, they Do need to take out the ability to make a premade for Regular WZs, the purpose of regular WZs is TO get geared for Ranked. Its discouraging as **** to get facerolled everyday, to the point where you cant even secure a *********** medal in some WZs. For financial reasons I had to stop playing before 1.2. I had full Champions gear on my trooper when I stopped playing, now there isnt even champion gear at any vendor. So when I go up against a full group of players in full War-hero gear who can co-ordinate through team chat programs, it blows *** and makes me want to break something. That kind of gap is *********** rediculous. and THAT is what people are talking about needs to be stopped, because THAT isnt fun, and that the purpose OF a game, is to have fun. You elitists out there, that make a *********** habit of being ***** in the game, just remember, not everyone can devote every waking hour to this game, and they would like to enjoy it as well. So yes, Bioware should implment something to protect the casual players from the ********s who try to ruin it for those of us with lives.

 

I left after 1.2 as well, 3 of my characters came back in champion. I have a full time job and other engagements/games that prevent me from devoting eveyr waking hour. This doesn't stop me from getting involved and improving. Your story is void, and an excuse.

 

That being said, matchmaking to "protect" the "casuals" would be an improvement. I do not think a problem -doesn't- exist, only that the excuses given for half of the solution ar invalid.

I left after 1.2 as well, 3 of my characters came back in champion. I have a full time job and other engagements/games that prevent me from devoting eveyr waking hour. This doesn't stop me from getting involved and improving. Your story is void, and an excuse.

 

That being said, matchmaking to "protect" the "casuals" would be an improvement. I do not think a problem -doesn't- exist, only that the excuses given for half of the solution ar invalid.

 

Who said I wasnt still playing and still improving? Im saying that everytime I DO play, I want to *********** BREAK something. That ISNT Fun, and I am saying this game is supposed to be FUN! It shouldnt cause more aggrevation that real life!

Who said I wasnt still playing and still improving? Im saying that everytime I DO play, I want to *********** BREAK something. That ISNT Fun, and I am saying this game is supposed to be FUN! It shouldnt cause more aggrevation that real life!

 

Have you grouped up? Have you taken the MK-2 recruit (which comes with 2 bm relics and is just barely superior to Champion?).

 

I won't deny it can get frustrating when solo, but the problem could be solved by grouping with people and working in a team. Don't say that won't help... because it's exactly what I did.

Have you grouped up? Have you taken the MK-2 recruit (which comes with 2 bm relics and is just barely superior to Champion?).

 

I won't deny it can get frustrating when solo, but the problem could be solved by grouping with people and working in a team. Don't say that won't help... because it's exactly what I did.

 

Yes, ive tried to, the problem is my realm isnt all that into PvP save for the PvP guilds, all I have been able to manage is one other person to que with, and the PvP guilds on my server Wont let you in without at least War Hero gear.

Yes, ive tried to, the problem is my realm isnt all that into PvP save for the PvP guilds, all I have been able to manage is one other person to que with, and the PvP guilds on my server Wont let you in without at least War Hero gear.

 

Well, keep looking. That can't be 100% true, but if you can't get into a PvP guild, look for other good solo players in your warzones, group with them, add them to your friends, etc... Try a good pve guild, then see how many are pvp'ing as well. (Even my "pvp" guild has plenty of PvE'ers).

 

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. =P only saying split queue's isn't the best solution. I'm not exactly sure why you're having trouble, but when i came back around 1.5 I had no trouble getting my champions (and a new main in recruit) into a decent guild with good friends.

 

Also, 1.6 should be here in a few weeks, so good news... WH will be for regular comms and be obtianable within a week.

 

I thought I'd bring out a pyro 50 I hadn't pvp'd with since hitting 50, and put the recruit gear on it. One guy, a lolsmashing sentinel, killed it in literally 3.2 seconds. Yeah, I actually timed it after the 3rd time. It shouldn't have been possible to take 15.5K in 2 GCDs, unless people want to enter the realm of GCD hacks.

 

I'd call BS on that, smash would take at most half of hp, scream+force croush/choke could finish I guess, but that's 3 gcd not 2

An additional point that should be considered, and that couldnt be solved by 4 + 4 x 2 ranked queues, is the situation pre lvl 50.

 

With the influx of ftp players and the increased frequency of pre 50 pre-mades we run the risk of scaring away the very new players.

 

Yesterday I played several games against pre-mades (with voice comms - and yes I know that for sure, as I know the team well) and have noticed that there are many more over the last few weeks in the sub 50 bracket. As an experienced player with well geared characters at any level it is not a problem for me (especially as we won every match against them), but I do have some concerns that the new players, especially with a 5 game weekly limit, will just decide that they will not participate as they have no chance to compete at all.

There are many players who decide pvp is not for them due to bad experiences before they reach 50, entering the pool again at 50 with little experience would only confirm their worst fears, thus limiting the size of the playing population.

geez, 142 pages on one subject.

There IS something developers need to do with it..

That's for sure.

In one way or another, but they cannot neglect it.

The following post will have a lot of quotes which will have links to said post at the end of each one.

lol.

 

common sense is a beautiful thing as well. i dont know about you, but when someone makes a thread about premades ruining WZs, the first thing that comes into my mind isnt... "oh, that guy must be talking about 4 friends in recruit gear queing together!! how dare he!!! time for me to school him that all premades are not equal".

 

Yes common sense indeed, many claim to have it but few seem to...........Lets just take a fast review of his one and only post here.

 

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

Was the first thing that came to my mind, but of course that's because he said it. Not sure where you get the whole all in recruit thing, I guess you just adding that in for flare or to some how imply I said he thought that. Yes all premade groups are not the same, but we know you think "most" are..well I'll just post what you think below, And I assure you he's in WH himself.,,,see below for that proof as well.

 

lol. maybe a few. but most like the ego boost from wrecking undergeared pugs. plus, they like to finish daily weekly quests fast vs pugs.

 

I've noticed that were a LOT more squishy since 1.3.... Huge difference in pvp from last night to today..... I'm literally being 2-3 shotted by marauders / sentinel (thats with full Battlemaster gear).... I think it's time to shelve my Gunslinger and start leveling up my sentinel..LINK

 

He posted that on 06.27.2012. But this is getting interesting, lets look further so I can maybe stop you from pulling other such shenanigans trying to spin your propaganda about what the OP truly means.

 

Yeah and I bet you are the same guys who go around saying how bored you are and there's nothing to do at end game....

 

This is a MULTIPLAYER game, meaning you play with other people... Here's a novel Idea, Why don't you guys learn to make a few new friends so you can do group content instead of turning this into a PURE solo player game...LINK

 

Gee I think I can on board with that lol, but of course he meant this just for PvE content.

Let me guess your a anti-social hermit whos afraid to leave his house to talk to anyone and you want your video games to be the same way....LINK

I've said similar about those who wish to not group in order to win and want their 1vs1 deathmatch in a team based objective game.

 

True its a lot easier if everyone is on Vent or Mumble but it can be done without them, people just need to pay attention to whats going on, and if Bioware would add a few more visuals cues it would make it a bit easier for people who don't use voice programs..LINK

It's also true if you play with friends that they learn how to play together with little need of talking which is something hard to do when pugging with the typical players I run across because they seem to care only about there solo epeen prowess and how many points they get on the score board. Which is why I like to make a team when I can.

 

To people wanting a gear check....

 

Simple answer is to join a guild and play with people you know, just because someone passes a gear check doesn't mean there any good.

 

Also even with the group finder I will still form my Pug OP groups using General Chat, that way I can see for myself what type of gear they have, they don't need to be all pimped out in Tionese gear to do Eternity Vault story mode, just like you don't need full Columi to do Hard Mode EV either...

 

The other issue I see with Group Finder will be needing specific classes to get pass certain bosses, for Example in KP you need a range tank and a melee tank for the Brother Bosses, you also need a Smuggler or Trooper healer to remove the debuff on the range tank (so you can't use two Sage/Sorc healers), if you don't have this odds are your going to get stuck on these type of bosses.LINK

He sure seems to have no problem hand picking teams for PvE, but in PvP he's to good to do the same?

 

Maybe it's a generational thing but it seems we have a lot of players who sit around and say "Entertain Me, I'm Bored"

 

I know the low populations suck and not having a group finder sucks BUT for people who have a little imagination the game can be fun.... For example you can talk to the people who have stayed and try to get people to combine guilds in order to do OP runs and HM Flashpoints.... You can also hook up with the other faction and create open world PvP by agreeing on a time and planet to fight each other...LINK

 

 

Just another example of his willingness to put effort in things he wants to have fun doing and surely has no problem telling other they should too.

 

Who cares.....

 

Besides this is like the 100th thread about this topic over the last several weeks..... It's simple don't like it then don't play..... When Bioware E-Mails you their survey you can state what you don't like about the game in that....LINK

 

I could say that about other type threads repeated over and over around here but that would be insensitive and not really fair to the issue, would it?

 

Well YOU don't get to decide what content Bioware offers or how they offer it. YOU do get to choose if you play the game or not or how you will play the game with the options Bioware gives you.

 

"" I want my HK-51 on my alts NOW and don't make me work for it ""..... QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

"" I only play 2 hours a month so Bioware needs to design the game to cater to me "" QQ QQ QQ QQ

 

Ya i know your point.... LINK

 

He has a point there, thats what premades do.....They play with what BW gave them and used it to achieve the most fun for their time played. Does not mean they think the current situation is fine but means they understand what it takes to improve there quality of fun in the games current state.

 

Why would anyone have a big Ego about PvP on a PvE RP server?

 

Seriously if your into PvP you shouldn't even be on this server, you should be on a PvP server where you have a real test of one's skills... PvP'ing against casual PvP'ers is nothing to brag about.LINK

 

Now that's just funny, I'm guessing he's on a PvE server and has some butt hurt over not finding easy kills on a PvE server as he figured he would.

 

ya right, hardcore pvp'ers come here because they can't hack it on pvp servers.... The ONLY reason they come here is because they know they can slaughter the casual pvp'ers... Sorry but any PvP only guild that is on this server is a Joke, you want to be taken seriously then pvp on a PvP Server... You can come up with all the excuses you want but the PvP guilds on a PvE RP server are nothing but a joke... Nobody has any respect for them on this server....LINK

 

I was right he is on a PvE server and has some rage issues over PvPer's that can't hack it on a "real" pvp server kicking his butt. I play on a PvE server becuase my brother refuses to play on PvP servers and he got to choose what server type we were playing this game in since I made him play a PvP server last game. But I guarantee you there are some excellent PvP teams on PvE servers and have a sore bum to prove it

 

Whatever makes you feel good about yourself....

 

As for cross server, I doubt they will have pvp servers matched up against pve servers.... Again these PvP only guilds on PvE servers are nothing but a joke, even if they did match up all the severs against each other these so called ""Hardcore PvP Guilds" on PvE servers will get face owned by the real pvp'ers.

 

Fighting against casual pvp'ers is not going to make you a better player, it will only gives you the illusion your great when the truth is far from that. But hey if these type of players like living in an illusion who am I to say otherwise..LINK

Well i guess he sure does not want BW to add cross server ques lol it might get even harder with "real" PvPers in his que.

 

Less and Less thanks to a few PvP only guilds... All they do is run premades all day long face rolling all the casual PvP'ers on this server which is like 95% of the player base.... That way they can feel special about themselves owning casual pvp'ers in recruit gear...LINK

 

Gee pvp guilds which are 5% of server is face rolling the other 95% of the server, I wounder how they do that? But who knows maybe the "casuals" take turns queing one at a time and just never run into other "casuals"

 

I find my companion is usually a better tank then most players so I usually just pull her out if the tank bails, same with DPS and Healers... I wish Que would allow us to fill spots with our companions, would make the Que's go much fasterLINK

 

Sure seems to think highly of his skills, and not so much of his fellow pug mates. This is a bit Of a stretch and assuming on my part but I get the felling he does not group in pvp much due to not wanting to crush his epeen to only find out that he's still not all that great or maybe he has a attitude problem and would not gel well with others that like to play as a team and not blame all loses or short comings on anything but himself. I know I never ask that kind back to a group.

 

I will agree PvP makes good PvE Healers as they gotta learn how to heal on the fly... But PvP makes poor DPS PvE players because they have a tendency to not play as a team and will usually pull mobs before the tank and not use their aggro dump skill during long fights making it that much harder for the tank...

 

PvP DPS players are used to being lone mavericks and have a hard time adjusting to PvE tactics...

 

PvP Tanks usually have issues keeping aggro in PvE or when the group is fighting several mobs at the same time they usually just concentrate on one mob and let their healers get killed by the other mobs...

 

I've had to kick several PvP players out of HM FP's because they kept wiping us with bone headed moves...LINK

 

Gee I guess maybe he thinks PvPers are just not that good in general, no wonder why he get's mad about losing to them. And show me one decent PvP tank that just runs around in PvP paying attention to on player. I know on my tank I'm constantly peeling dps off healers, debuffing utilizing CC and other tools they have.

But I'm done for now, MiaRB I hope I helped you understand why reading is fundamental.

 

And for those of you that like That 70's Show I leave you with

 

Edit : Yes I did not get into spit ques, will try to tomorrow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup yup yup

Edited November 30, 2012 by Pvtcarnage

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

Get organized or stop palying. If you want to pvp then get your own premade. Reality check... If you had the option of going into a real battle between people you've been in a battle with before versus people you haven't been in battle with, which one would you choose. More than likely most everyone is going to pick the people they've been in a battle with before. Why do you think that is? Maybe it's because they know how the others think and react. The same goes for PVP! I don't know about you guys, but pvp is going to have winners and losers at the end of each round. I would rather que up with a group of people I play with all the time versus players I never played with before. Why, because I don't want to play with a team that is full of 12-15k hp sorcs. I want to win! Is something wrong with me not wanting to win?

No, it's a viable option to -play.-

 

The solo function provides a vital service. Those who don't have friends on can still play. Those who don't have a spot in the guild at the moment can still play. Those that just want a quick match or are feeling anti-social today can play. That is all the solo queue option is designed to do... allow people to -play- when (or if they don't want a group) they have no group.

 

Solo also servers for filling and backfilling.

 

Your character has the option to get naked, does it not? Yet do you believe playing without armor should be as viable to win as someone wearing their gear?

 

The game allows you to choose how you apply your talent points, but if you choose a 11/20/10 (fyi, a build that is just terrible) should it be as viable to win as the standard 31//10 builds?

 

 

The problem I feel people have, is the false assumption solo-centric is a viable playstyle (for winning), or that it should be. It isn't, it's the complete opposite of a "multiplayer" game. The option exists to not exclude the player who doesn't have a group, not because it should be a viable winning strategy.

 

Anything that allows people to -play- should be a viable means to allow them to -win-, MMO or not. Otherwise it's not an option really, other than saying "please play lambs for the premades to slaughter" and "You don't want to get slaughtered? Well, group up and slaughter those than didn't." But why does it have to be a slaughter in the first place is what I ask.

 

What's really interesting is that premade advocates are even unwilling to give solo queuers a simple option to turn off "match against premade enemy groups." Why, are you afraid that given the choice, no solo player would queue against groups? That given the choice, you wouldn't queue against premades if you played solo? Those people who actually left "match against premade enemy groups" on could backfill premade groups.

 

It seems very strange to me that all premaders preach that nobody should play solo and expect to win. And at the same time they actually WANT people to play solo, so they can beat them into the ground. If solo queue isn't a viable means to win, it simply shouldn't be in the game. As long as it IS in the game however, proper measures should be taken that those people who are thrown into a random group of 3 tanks and 5 DPS have a viable chance to win.

 

We can't judge people by double standards. We can't say that nobody should play solo if you want to win but I want you to play solo regardless, so that I can win. Going naked in a warzone goes against common sense. Going in with a useless build goes against common sense. But is going in with a random team goes against common sense in a multiplayer game? You say, yes, but I say it didn't in Guild Wars. It didn't in any of the FPS shooters that allow you not to play against entire clans. If it doesn't and didn't in other games, it doesn't go against common sense in Star Wars either.

 

As long as we have solo queue option, solo-centric should be a viable playstyle for winning. I'll accept your reasoning the moment they remove the solo queue option, but until then, I'm unwilling to believe that Bioware would give us a playstyle option that isn't viable.

 

Or humor me and name any sport that allows a team of 8 random amateurs compete against a premade national champion team.

Edited November 30, 2012 by CommanderKeeva

Get organized or stop palying. If you want to pvp then get your own premade. Reality check... If you had the option of going into a real battle between people you've been in a battle with before versus people you haven't been in battle with, which one would you choose. More than likely most everyone is going to pick the people they've been in a battle with before. Why do you think that is? Maybe it's because they know how the others think and react. The same goes for PVP! I don't know about you guys, but pvp is going to have winners and losers at the end of each round. I would rather que up with a group of people I play with all the time versus players I never played with before. Why, because I don't want to play with a team that is full of 12-15k hp sorcs. I want to win! Is something wrong with me not wanting to win?

 

Again, I'd accept the "get organized or stop playing reasoning" if there wasn't a solo only option. As it stands, it's "I get organized, you don't, so we stomp you and you'll like it." Team or leave would only work if teaming up was the only option to play.

 

There's nothing wrong with you wanting to win. You want to win. I want to win. Everyone wants to win. We all want to win. Everyone likes winning but everyone should accept a fair chance for both sides.

 

If you're queueing solo, you're given a limited variety of tools that you can use to win. You may have a healer, you may have a tank, you may not have any at all. It's random, luck-based an RNG number. If these are the rules of engagement and terms of combat for you these exact same rules should apply to the opposing team as well. If your team composition depends on a number, the enemy team's composition should be based on a number, as well.

 

If you're queueing as a group, you're given a much wider assortment of tools that greatly increases your chance to win. Tanks, pocket healers, 3rd party communication programs, guild crafting skills and whatnot. If you have access to these tools, your opposition should have access to these tools as well. If you have a carefully balanced, predetermined team composition, the opposing team should have one as well.

 

Shouting "team up or leave" won't solve anything because most people will do exactly that if they are forced to engage groups on uneven terms: leave. And last I checked we wanted people to stay and the player base to grow, not to shrink.

Anything that allows people to -play- should be a viable means to allow them to -win-, MMO or not. Otherwise it's not an option really, other than saying "please play lambs for the premades to slaughter" and "You don't want to get slaughtered? Well, group up and slaughter those than didn't." But why does it have to be a slaughter in the first place is what I ask.

 

Can you enter a flashpoint with less than 4? (yes btw...)

 

Can you enter a flashpoint with 4 dps? (yes)

 

Do you have the option to go naked? (yes)

 

Are any of these viable options to "win?" (no)

 

(On a side note, I'd like to point out matchmaking would increase a PuG/Solo players chance to win by matching them as closely as possible to others like them. You seem to think I advocate "no change" when I'm actually just advocating against "split queue's")

 

What's really interesting is that premade advocates are even unwilling to give solo queuers a simple option to turn off "match against premade enemy groups." Why, are you afraid that given the choice, no solo player would queue against groups? That given the choice, you wouldn't queue against premades if you played solo? Those people who actually left "match against premade enemy groups" on could backfill premade groups.

 

Because that button enables a player to basically choose a weaker form of PvP, for equal rewards. Secondly, -any- option that is a hard split to the pool has the exact same problem as a split queue.

 

It seems very strange to me that all premaders preach that nobody should play solo and expect to win. And at the same time they actually WANT people to play solo, so they can beat them into the ground. If solo queue isn't a viable means to win, it simply shouldn't be in the game. As long as it IS in the game however, proper measures should be taken that those people who are thrown into a random group of 3 tanks and 5 DPS have a viable chance to win.

 

I don't want people to play solo, but I respect that sometimes people need to. It shouldn't be 100% of the time, and it certianly isn't a "playstyle," but it's a reality. I think people should be able to solo queue when they can not (or do not want to) group up, but they (as I do not) should not expect special treatment for it. We all get one playground.

 

We can't judge people by double standards. We can't say that nobody should play solo if you want to win but I want you to play solo, so that I can win. Going naked in a warzone goes against common sense. Going in with a useless build goes against common sense. But is going in with a random team goes against common sense in a multiplayer game? You say, yes, but I say it didn't in Guild Wars. It didn't in any of the FPS shooters that allow you not to play against entire clans. If it doesn't and didn't in other games, it doesn't go against common sense in Star Wars either.

 

1) Haven't held anyone to a double standard. Second, we'll have to agree on common sense. I'd like to note Guild Wars (2, not sure about one) has a completely different kind of pvp system, and almost all modern FPS's do not have a "split queue" ... they have a matchmaking sytem (usually based on either a Win/Loss ratio or a Exp system.)

 

As long as we have solo queue option, solo-centric should be a viable playstyle for winning. I'll accept your reasoning the moment they remove the solo queue option, but until then, I'm unwilling to believe that Bioware would give us a playstyle option that isn't viable.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree. =P though just to be nitpicky... you know it's called a "Playstyle" not a "Winstyle?"

 

Also, once again matchmaking will boost the solo option to be more viable, without the negatives of a split queue's logistical problems.

 

Or humor me and name any sport that allows a team of 8 random amateurs compete against a premade national champion team.

 

You mean name a sport that allows a team of 8 randoms to face a team of 4 pro's + 4 randoms? I do believe any "local" competition allows anyone to join, you just rarely see pro's come to your local spots. Not cause they're not allowed, they just have better things to do. Make ranked more accessible and (most of the) problem solved.

An additional point that should be considered, and that couldnt be solved by 4 + 4 x 2 ranked queues, is the situation pre lvl 50.

 

With the influx of ftp players and the increased frequency of pre 50 pre-mades we run the risk of scaring away the very new players.

 

Yesterday I played several games against pre-mades (with voice comms - and yes I know that for sure, as I know the team well) and have noticed that there are many more over the last few weeks in the sub 50 bracket. As an experienced player with well geared characters at any level it is not a problem for me (especially as we won every match against them), but I do have some concerns that the new players, especially with a 5 game weekly limit, will just decide that they will not participate as they have no chance to compete at all.

There are many players who decide pvp is not for them due to bad experiences before they reach 50, entering the pool again at 50 with little experience would only confirm their worst fears, thus limiting the size of the playing population.

 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Since now with so many new players giving PVP a shot, it's time to make PVP appealing to them.

 

Even premade supporters can admit that getting into PVP(More so 50 bracket) is a tough road at the start. With only 5 matches to play a week, first impressions are paramount to keep them coming back.

 

So if my buddies and I decide to toss to the huttball back and forth to each other, while the score is 5-0, in our favor, well that isn't going to help the situation. The sad thing is, things like this are happening because most premades in this game don't want to preform on a higher competitive level. Hence why ranked pvp dishes out those "5 awesomeeverythingisgreatinranked matches" everyday.

 

Current system breaks communities. Not having fun? Well they will stop queueing. Hence even longer queue's.

Get organized or stop palying. If you want to pvp then get your own premade. Reality check... If you had the option of going into a real battle between people you've been in a battle with before versus people you haven't been in battle with, which one would you choose. More than likely most everyone is going to pick the people they've been in a battle with before. Why do you think that is? Maybe it's because they know how the others think and react. The same goes for PVP! I don't know about you guys, but pvp is going to have winners and losers at the end of each round. I would rather que up with a group of people I play with all the time versus players I never played with before. Why, because I don't want to play with a team that is full of 12-15k hp sorcs. I want to win! Is something wrong with me not wanting to win?

 

Then join ranked because you are the reason why the competitive levels of this game are at the lowest point. You don't wanna group with 12-15k hp people, play ranked. It's simple.

 

Now let's hear the copy/paste reasons why ranked is just too "tough" to start up. You don't wanna group with 12-15k hp people, play ranked. It's simple.

I was on a pug team last night in huttball and we beat a really good premade...I guess I'm the exception.

A point to remember as everyone argues back and forth is that there is almost nobody that isn't advocating for some type of change. The real question is what the best solution to a problem that the PVP forum community is obviously vocal about.

 

The challenge I would put forth to those who are advocating a solo queue is to post the reasons why you feel it is the best solution. Once you have your list typed out, go through each one and ask yourself if the scenario that is causing issues currently, would still happen in a solo queue. Here are some examples:

 

1) Team composition is better for premades: True, they have the ability to pick who they queue with, but when team makeup is completely RNG, you will see composition imbalance in a solo queue just as often. The only thing you have eliminated is the advantage any specific person can have by selecting some of their team, not the advantage as a whole. I would also note the likelihood of utility roles in a solo queue will be extremely more limited (less likely to queue solo if you have to rely heavily on other players) and you will see that the side with 1 healer queuing will have a significant advantage.

 

2) Premades are overgeared and looking to stomp undergeared PUGs: True, this is the mindset of some people (the same ones ganking level 25s on Tatooine). These people will still queue up solo to do the same thing to undergeared players on their own. A solo queue isn't going to stop the less geared players from facing players who have spent almost a year gearing up a character. Once again, the solution of a solo queue only removes the team gear advantage from the individual, but since team makeup is still random, there will be better geared teams facing worse geared teams.

 

3) VOIP is a huge advantage: It can be, for full 8 man teams in rated. You still have 4 other people minimum on your team that you have to communicate with. They have to know not to break CC as well, they have to know which nodes are being attacked, and they have to know who to focus fire as well. There isn't any significant advantage to having 4 people on VOIP and 4 not compared to 8 without VOIP. Typing isn't impossible

 

TL;DR A solo queue will help prevent any one person from going into warzones with an advantage, but does not prevent the advantage from existing in the first place. (There are other reasons against a solo queue as well. For more information, see my published works in the other 140 some pages of this thread)

All-right guys, I agree premades are ruining a lot of things. The reason that they do this though, is because not enough people queue for ranked. If they made cross-server ranked it would effectively solve the problem. I know this because I am guilty of running premades once or twice, because we couldn't get into ranked warzones. We would have preferred to be in ranked, but as they queue never popped we had no choice but to queue regular.

That being said, PuG's beat premades or give them a rough time plenty... they also get stomped too.

 

I can relate to this, pal. The other night I log (as usual) into a lvl 50 pug vs lvl 50 premade, I was almost certain we would be stomped until our leader took command and started directing a bunch of complete noob strangers: go mid, stay left, hold mid, everyone rush right, etc. Believe it or not, we held our ground against the premade and even won the match. At the end, that guy congratulated us and said we were the best team he had grouped all night.

 

So yeah, sometimes more than miracles, all it takes for a pug to beat a premade is leadership and team-work.

 

Oh, btw, regarding that aspect about the missing albino moose, here's my proof:

 

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A2KJke1I0rhQ1EIAqY2JzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dalbino%2Bmoose%26_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dalbino%2Bmoose%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701-s%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D48&w=415&h=340&imgurl=animals.timduru.org%2Fdirlist%2Fmoose%2FAlbino-WhiteMoose.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.ebaumsworld.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F59687-Albino-Moose&size=31.5+KB&name=%3Cb%3EAlbino+Moose%3C%2Fb%3E.&p=albino+moose&oid=5e216a966aee3258439c1f88120c8100&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701-s&tt=%253Cb%253EAlbino%2BMoose%253C%252Fb%253E.&b=31&ni=72&no=48&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11udn4v94&sigb=13sqptl66&sigi=11nolt021&.crumb=ni2x/4wVjyH

Edited November 30, 2012 by zorroazul

Can you enter a flashpoint with less than 4? (yes btw...)

 

Can you enter a flashpoint with 4 dps? (yes)

 

Do you have the option to go naked? (yes)

 

Are any of these viable options to "win?" (no)

 

I see you've not done too many flashpoints via the gf, otherwise you would know that you CANNOT queue for a random fp or operation with less than 3 people or with 3 dps. Since you cannot enter a warzone outside the PvP queue, what you can do outside the PvE group finder cannot be compared to the PvP group finder.

 

When you examine the queue however, you'll see, that even if you're queuing as a random PuG, you have a 100% chance of ending up with a tank and a healer, which is more than most PvP PuG groups can say. It doesn't guarantee victory (nor should it) but at least you won't be crippled by the lack of a healer if you're queueing for random PvE as I have been lots of times when I queued for random PvP.

 

So is pugging in PvE a viable option to win? Very much so, in fact I do like 3 random hard modes each day for BH comms.

 

Is pugging in PvP a viable and reliable option to win? No, otherwise I won't be typing this.

 

See the difference?

 

Because that button enables a player to basically choose a weaker form of PvP, for equal rewards. Secondly, -any- option that is a hard split to the pool has the exact same problem as a split queue.

 

I really don't get it why you call PuGs a weaker form of PvP, when if anything PuGs have to fight a lot harder than premades to win, especially if they lack critical players like healers. The guy in the premade team that starts dancing when 2 people are beating on him because his 2 pocket healers will keep him alive in any situation surely works very hard for his commendations. And who said anything about rewards? I feel like it's just an excuse to have cannon fodder for you to slaughter. After all, premaders wouldn't want to lose their easy commendations, wouldn't they?

 

I don't want people to play solo, but I respect that sometimes people need to. It shouldn't be 100% of the time, and it certianly isn't a "playstyle," but it's a reality. I think people should be able to solo queue when they can not (or do not want to) group up, but they (as I do not) should not expect special treatment for it. We all get one playground.

 

By special treatmeant you mean that they shouldn't expect to face another team whose composition is based on an RNG roll, when theirs is based on an RNG roll as well? Since when is calling for basic balance special treatment? If what determines whether or not you have a healer or a tank is a random number, I think it's only fair to expect the same of the enemy team. We should get multiple playgrounds, based on team composition, with an option to face premade teams, so that people who want that can backfill in premade matches.

 

You can adjust the rewards however you want but the simple fact remains: just by forming a group before the queue, a team will have an advantage that the other team can never match, therefore it is not fair in any sense of the word to have the 2 groups fight against each other. I cannot simplify it more than that.

 

Also, once again matchmaking will boost the solo option to be more viable, without the negatives of a split queue's logistical problems.

 

I'll believe it when I see it. It will make a good addition to the 3rd expansion pack.

 

 

You mean name a sport that allows a team of 8 randoms to face a team of 4 pro's + 4 randoms? I do believe any "local" competition allows anyone to join, you just rarely see pro's come to your local spots. Not cause they're not allowed, they just have better things to do. Make ranked more accessible and (most of the) problem solved

 

I don't know where you live, but a friend of mine who was part of the Youth Olympics running team was not allowed to compete in the local running competition sponsored by Samsung since it was hosted only to amateurs and not professionals. Where I live professional sportsmen are definitely not allowed to run against Average Fat Joe from next door, because they have regional, national and international tournaments and championships to take part in.

Edited November 30, 2012 by CommanderKeeva

this thread only helps showcasing why swtor pvp community is a joke to any other serious online pvp communitie.

 

ITs wrong..upside down and overall clueless...

 

 

people ask and beg for the wrong things..things that catter to exagerated casual gaming and wellfare items while depricing the community of becoming competitive and improving as a whole.

 

thsi si why you see things on these forums that compeltel go agisnt competitive pvp basics....and thats why the community wont ever evolve and ultimately that will affect the pvp ingame and then the game itself...

 

You can see daily threads like this one that just illustrate all that..."pls give me wellfare items" "pls dont amke this game competitive"..defending keyboard turning and cliking...defending a system that rewards "time" over "skill"...goign agaisnt rated pvp, agsisnt cross server queues.....agaisnt rating requirements on egar....all these only weaken the community, and wont allow it to become competitive and better...In the end that will have major repurcussions over the pvp, people wont learn, wont ebcome competitive, the skill lvl will remain the same or decrease...competition will die...pvp will stall..and THAT will be another chunk of players living the game eventually..

 

(sorry for my english)

Get organized or stop palying. If you want to pvp then get your own premade. Reality check... If you had the option of going into a real battle between people you've been in a battle with before versus people you haven't been in battle with, which one would you choose. More than likely most everyone is going to pick the people they've been in a battle with before. Why do you think that is? Maybe it's because they know how the others think and react. The same goes for PVP! I don't know about you guys, but pvp is going to have winners and losers at the end of each round. I would rather que up with a group of people I play with all the time versus players I never played with before. Why, because I don't want to play with a team that is full of 12-15k hp sorcs. I want to win! Is something wrong with me not wanting to win?

I assume you don't dislike facing a team "that is full of 12-15k hp sorcs". Is this a prevailing attitude with people primarily premading? You want your average premade to meet unorganized and undergeared bads because otherwise you couldn't win? If the people primarily premading don't want to meet challenging opposition I don't know what the hell is wrong in your head. At least you don't want to better yourself by facing tough opposition. The state of ranked warzones on most servers would be the proof of that.

All-right guys, I agree premades are ruining a lot of things. The reason that they do this though, is because not enough people queue for ranked. If they made cross-server ranked it would effectively solve the problem. I know this because I am guilty of running premades once or twice, because we couldn't get into ranked warzones. We would have preferred to be in ranked, but as they queue never popped we had no choice but to queue regular.

The reason they don't queue for ranked is because they don't like losing. Eventually there will be a team having trouble to win a rwz on regular basis. That team will become the worst team queuing for rwz. Once they realize they suck and have no hope of bettering themselves they will stop queuing. Then number 2 on that suckage list will suddenly find they are the worst team and eventually stop queuing. And so it repeats until you have a handful people able to compete for the top spot.

 

I'd say that is pretty much what happened a few weeks after 1.3. I know that killed my first guild's RWZ team. People didn't like losing more than in normal warzones so they stopped showing up after a few nights.