Jump to content

Anger and fear.


Path-x

Recommended Posts

I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak.

 

I think the ideal Sith would be unbound by any moral standards and would have the Sith efficiency and disregard for weak and Jedi calmness and focus. When I was playing my Sith characters I went by that mentality. I always chose conversation responses that had calmness, wit and mocking attitude. This makes you look like you always have things under control and that nothing can get to you. I never chose options that included anger. I enjoyed the most when Jedi opponent got angry and I would preach to him, make fun of him and tell him how pathetic he is. To me anger is not only a loser emotion but also makes one look unintelligent.

 

EDIT (Added this to clarify my argument):

My argument is not just about about how anger works in a Star Wars in respect to the force power. I am completely aware that in Star Wars canon anger provides pathway to more power. I am mainly saying two things. First is that I dislike this concept. And second (most important) is that I think anger makes one look lame and unintelligent. I much prefer the Sith who appear to have everything under control. For example Emperor in ROTJ, grinning and enjoying or Vader chocking officers while calmly making witty and sarcastic remarks (despite them failing him and giving him the reason for anger he appeared like nothing can get to him). That is what looks badas and cool. And that is why they so great villains.

Edited by Path-x
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 90
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Anger and rage are a very important source of strength and endurance, i'd say.

 

Just look at Malgus in the Deceived novel. The way Paul S. Kemp portrayed Malgus' rage. He's just an erupting Sith volcano.

 

As for anger severely lowering focus and clouding one's thoughts; i agree.

Edited by GhostDrone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak.

 

The animal kingdom's always been that way. Fight or flight. The Sith personify the survival of the fittest, and the show it by the predominance of their emotions. Sith Sith aren't angry that they're winners. They're angry that the losers dare to still exist. the Sith channel their fear for power, since fear is one of the most easily accessed emotions we have.

 

It actually fits quite perfectly. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anger and Fear can help you push your body past its limits.

 

Malgus is a good example of anger and rage, you can see the anger and hate is in face when he is been crushed into the wall, but the rage is feeding his power and he nearly breaks free.

 

Fear helps push you to do what needs to be done, if you fear dying or losing then you will push yourself to stay alive and win. Not to mention been afraid of something keeps you on your feet where as been fearless makes you lazy. Look at the republic, they had nothing to fear and they became weak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with you guys. In game that may be true but in real life it just doesn't work that way. If one is performing some task (physical or mental) and something upset him and makes him angry he will lose focus and things will only get worse (I am sure everyone can confirm that from experience). It is true that at that point you can squeeze out a bit more of physical strength but usually it is worthless since anger diminishes your thinking and coordination performance. That is simply because muscles can produce more power to do some random uncontrolled motion compared to doing motion that is precisely directed by our neural system.

 

Fear helps push you to do what needs to be done, if you fear dying or losing then you will push yourself to stay alive and win. Not to mention been afraid of something keeps you on your feet where as been fearless makes you lazy.

 

Well fear is a mechanism of self preservation. It is true that it keeps one constantly alert but on the other hand it greatly limits anyone who is controlled by it. You don't do or you hesitate to do something because of fear. Many dictatorships induced fear into their population to completely diminish people's thoughts of doing anything against the establishment and keep them in line. If you fear your teacher you do poorly at the oral exam. If you are afraid of new technology you will never learn how to use computer and cell phones (older people for example). And so on.

Edited by Path-x
Link to comment
Share on other sites

These emotions you speak of are what feeds the Dark Side of the Force to begin with. Without them there'd be no Dark Side.

 

That said, I don't think they derive strength from fear. Fear leads to anger, and anger and hate fuel the Sith.

Edited by JediMB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with you guys. In game that may be true but in real life it just doesn't work that way. If one is performing some task (physical or mental) and something upset him and makes him angry he will lose focus and things will only get worse (I am sure everyone can confirm that from experience). It is true that at that point you can squeeze out a bit more of physical strength but usually it is worthless since anger diminishes your thinking and coordination performance. That is simply because muscles can produce more power to do some random uncontrolled motion compared to doing motion that is precisely directed by our neural system.

 

 

 

Well fear is a mechanism of self preservation. It is true that it keeps one constantly alert but on the other hand it greatly limits anyone who is controlled by it. You don't do or you hesitate to do something because of fear. Many dictatorships induced fear into their population to completely diminish people's thoughts of doing anything against the establishment and keep them in line. If you fear your teacher you do poorly at the oral exam. If you are afraid of new technology you will never learn how to use computer and cell phones (older people for example). And so on.

 

Well, this is in the Lore section so one would assume you were just calling the sith out for their usage of anger and fear.

 

Not sure a lot of people would think you're directly referring to real-life scenarios.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on your personality I think, for example when I play sports and I get angry for whatever reason most of the time it helps me perform better, focuses my mind and makes me redouble my efforts, not everyone reacts the same way, it's why some people break under pressure while others thrive under it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on your personality I think, for example when I play sports and I get angry for whatever reason most of the time it helps me perform better, focuses my mind and makes me redouble my efforts, not everyone reacts the same way, it's why some people break under pressure while others thrive under it.

 

I observe the opposite when I play football with my mates. If an individual or even whole team gets angry the performance usually drops. Some start blaming each other while others lose focus and make even more mistakes.

 

I don't think you are talking about classic anger. It is more like an combination of persistent character, determination at what you do and self challenge. I too feel the urge to do better and to outperform when something goes wrong but I don't think that is anger. :)

Edited by Path-x
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak.

 

Fear is the way to the Dark-side.

Fear leads to Anger

Anger leads to Hatred

Hatred leads to Suffering

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has already been explained by a few on how the Sith use these emotions and how they lead to power the dark side, etc, so I would retread over that. As for real life, I think it is very contextual whether these emotions are useful or not, as it can probably change from situation to situation. Someone already brought up, that having no fear can lead to complacency or just stupid decisions in general, but as also pointed out being controlled by fear can be just as harmful in different ways. Everything in moderation I suppose.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I observe the opposite when I play football with my mates. If an individual or even whole team gets angry the performance usually drops. Some start blaming each other while others lose focus and make even more mistakes.

 

I don't think you are talking about classic anger. It is more like an combination of persistent character, determination at what you do and self challenge. I too feel the urge to do better and to outperform when something goes wrong but I don't think that is anger. :)

 

Well the reality of the situation is that different humans react in different ways to different emotions in different situations, so yes most people may get sloppy when angered while some can channel their anger for as long as they have an objective in front of them.

 

What I think the Sith teachings do is let anyone who gets properly trained gain that ability to focus their emotions into power without being enslaved by them and get sloppy, like Palpatine said "I can feel your anger, it gives you focus, it makes you stronger"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The answer is simple, really. It's a matter of controlling, harnessing, and focusing the energy and drive inherent in the emotion, rather than letting the emotion control you. There are times when I get upset or angry and am able to use it and focus it and do better, and there are times when it gets the better of me and I do worse.

 

It seems to be a matter of taking the anger and using it to fuel drive and determination, as opposed to just going into a rage.

 

So really, the Sith are all about harnessing and controlling their emotions, and using them as motivation. This is in opposition to the Jedi being about simply denying their existence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about this as a real life scenario? Children have need of reminders to correct their actions. Before it was outlawed spankings did this. It is the fear of the physical pain that prevented kids like me from talking back to my parents when growing up. Anger also has real world connections. Before killing became impersonal it was used to avenge people that felt they were wronged. Personally I see anger and fear galore in our modern world.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree with you guys. In game that may be true but in real life it just doesn't work that way. If one is performing some task (physical or mental) and something upset him and makes him angry he will lose focus and things will only get worse (I am sure everyone can confirm that from experience). It is true that at that point you can squeeze out a bit more of physical strength but usually it is worthless since anger diminishes your thinking and coordination performance. That is simply because muscles can produce more power to do some random uncontrolled motion compared to doing motion that is precisely directed by our neural system.

 

 

 

Well fear is a mechanism of self preservation. It is true that it keeps one constantly alert but on the other hand it greatly limits anyone who is controlled by it. You don't do or you hesitate to do something because of fear. Many dictatorships induced fear into their population to completely diminish people's thoughts of doing anything against the establishment and keep them in line. If you fear your teacher you do poorly at the oral exam. If you are afraid of new technology you will never learn how to use computer and cell phones (older people for example). And so on.

This is actually a very good point, and can be applied to the Force. Anger and Fear, while leading to power - also lead to losing control, and losing efficiency. Unless a Sith can learn to control his fear and his anger, and hone its raw power he/she would lash out in a blind rage. In such instances a Jedi, or other opponent, can exploit their weaknesses in their sloppy and uncoordinated movements.

 

This is a purpose of Dun Moch, by enraging your opponent you can more easily exploit their weaknesses and anger as fear take over skill and discipline. However it can lead to the 'boomerang effect' when they use those emotions to overpower their enemy.

 

But yes, IMO anger and fear are as much weaknesses as strengths. If you cannot learn to control them they can easily become a double-edged sword.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theres 2 types of anger i've usually observed. The classic "Berserker rage", and "Focused Anger".

 

Berserker rage involves in one person lashing out and gaining the tunnel effect, only focused on doing as much damage to the enemy as quickly as possible.

 

Then there is Focused anger, that makes you sharp and alert, due to the increased flow of adrenaline. When trained properly, focused anger can be very dangerous and very effective.

 

Thats why it takes more than 1 jedi to usually to kill a sith lord, this is due to their strength and power. But in the end, jedi win because of the berserker rage effect taking over said sith lord. Malgus on the other hand, is quite unique. He seems more effective and powerful when angry, therefore Id say he falls into the Focused Anger category.

 

In Star wars lore, ive observed that the failed sith lords and acolytes are the ones that have the typical berserker rage mindset or are plain 'weak'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theres 2 types of anger i've usually observed. The classic "Berserker rage", and "Focused Anger".

 

Berserker rage involves in one person lashing out and gaining the tunnel effect, only focused on doing as much damage to the enemy as quickly as possible.

 

Then there is Focused anger, that makes you sharp and alert, due to the increased flow of adrenaline. When trained properly, focused anger can be very dangerous and very effective.

 

Thats why it takes more than 1 jedi to usually to kill a sith lord, this is due to their strength and power. But in the end, jedi win because of the berserker rage effect taking over said sith lord. Malgus on the other hand, is quite unique. He seems more effective and powerful when angry, therefore Id say he falls into the Focused Anger category.

 

In Star wars lore, ive observed that the failed sith lords and acolytes are the ones that have the typical berserker rage mindset or are plain 'weak'.

In light of this, Traya is an interesting force user to consider. She neither seems 'beserker rage' or 'focused anger' - she always seemed very calm, almost serene. And yet she was a powerful practitioner of the darkside, but then again she was never really Sith. I'd say Traya is a good example of a darksider who completely mastered and honed her emotions to the point that she no longer needed to incite fear and anger to draw on the darkside...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In light of this, Traya is an interesting force user to consider. She neither seems 'beserker rage' or 'focused anger' - she always seemed very calm, almost serene. And yet she was a powerful practitioner of the darkside, but then again she was never really Sith. I'd say Traya is a good example of a darksider who completely mastered and honed her emotions to the point that she no longer needed to incite fear and anger to draw on the darkside...

 

Well, Traya was focused on her hatred of the Force itself. Since it's not a physical thing she can lash out at, she had to be calm and cunning to put together her plan to destroy such an abstract enemy.

Edited by JediMB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Traya most probably focused anger and that is why she remained calm, being in state of anger doesnt exactly mean to mumble and throw shouts. Althou I doubt that any experienced Sith would become furious easily, after all they slay many different beings in hundreds, it must have become a routine. Of course, enemy who would put equal fight probably would enrage a Sith and then it is a matter of a discipline.

 

Personally I'm much more interested in the Emperor, Lord Scourge and Sith Warrior as they do not possess emotions any longer, for them I guess same presence of the Dark Side inside them is enough to channel it in combat or they focus on murderous intent.and thats how it work. I would say that they are the ultimate form of the force sensitive fighter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Traya most probably focused anger and that is why she remained calm, being in state of anger doesnt exactly mean to mumble and throw shouts. Althou I doubt that any experienced Sith would become furious easily, after all they slay many different beings in hundreds, it must have become a routine. Of course, enemy who would put equal fight probably would enrage a Sith and then it is a matter of a discipline.

 

Personally I'm much more interested in the Emperor, Lord Scourge and Sith Warrior as they do not possess emotions any longer, for them I guess same presence of the Dark Side inside them is enough to channel it in combat or they focus on murderous intent.and thats how it work. I would say that they are the ultimate form of the force sensitive fighter.

Hmmmm, the Jedi always talk about the dark side being the 'easy path' to power, but maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe you don't need to use strong emotions to tap into the dark side's power and that through enough concentration and strength of will you can just call upon it like a Jedi calls upon the light side of the Force. The difference here would be that instead of being a weapon of the Force, the Force becomes your weapon, because you have learned to control its power rather than let it control you through 'giving in' to your emotions. The Sith Emperor after all says:

 

There is no death, there is only the Force. And I am its master.

 

And that guy seems pretty devoid of strong emotion, but then again he does seem to use anger in his battle with Revan if I recall. Maybe if you just learn to focus your emotions enough you eventually learn to control them, and so can call upon the essence of anger, fear and hatred whenever you want without actually having to feel those emotions at the time, just a thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

There is no death, there is only the Force. And I am its master.

 

 

Interesting choice of quote. For two reasons. The Jedi Mantra, "There is no death, there is the force"

And as Yoda quote "The force is my Ally, and a powerful ally it is".

 

Indicates very slight differences given that angle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting choice of quote. For two reasons. The Jedi Mantra, "There is no death, there is the force"

And as Yoda quote "The force is my Ally, and a powerful ally it is".

 

Indicates very slight differences given that angle

Exactly, light and dark are much closer than you may think. And for Kreia, who was almost a grey Sith, they may have being even closer. After all she says, in regard to the Force:

 

If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal.

 

She obviously drew on the teachings of the Jedi and the Sith. So perhaps she actually followed that line in the Jedi Code, "There is no passion, there is serenity." Or at least to an extent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought Kria was just silently a very good sith, but I suspeeeect you may be right. (If you haven't played KotOR 1+2 Don't look at this, seriously.

The things she came out with were very balanced. Not overly good, (most the time) not overly bad. We all **** ourselves when we found out the was a darth and the traitor anyway lol!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...