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[Guide] Sage DPS (TK + Balance) 2.0+


Nibbon

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Welcome. I have reformatted the guide to make it seem less overwhelming using spoiler tags. Also made some basic edits to make it more readable. I plan on updating this guide one more time with the next tier of gear - that will probably be my last. As always, edits are tracked in the next post and feel free to reply to the thread with questions - but I implore you to search for answers to your questions first.

 

Legend

 

  • Theory Crafting
  • Results for Best Spec
  • How Stats Work 2.0+
  • BiS Gear
  • AMR Profile Links
  • Relics
  • Parses
  • Rotation
  • Leveling Specs and Gear/Advice
  • Name Equivalents

 

 

Theory Crafting

 

First, let's take a look at the source of most of my information.

 

For Lightning|Telekinetic, look here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdEV3eGgyWDItUE8xczZ5dDNrSmRXdmc#gid=1

For Madness|Balance, look here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgCWcFAbOaZwdFhnUUhZLWEwdW5rNHdES1ppTHRoa2c#gid=1

 

The spreadsheets are mostly the same - the Lightning|Telekinetic one was built off the Madness|Balance one, so naturally it was upgraded a bit in terms of the flow, but they both work the same exact way (I have since made the Madness|Balance one more like the Lightning|Telekinetic one in terms of organization). I am constantly updating them or playing around with them, but will post whenever there is a major change.

 

The purpose of this thread is not to walk you through the spreadsheets, but I did want to provide what I put together to reach my conclusions. As a brief overview - there are only two important tabs. One is called "Stat" the other is "damage and buffs."

 

In Damage and Buffs - this is where the damage of abilities are calculated based off accuracy, crit, surge, power (ultimately +dmg), alacrity, and any amplification based off different specs. Also in this section are the specs themselves - here you can change the amount of points in different abilities on the skill tree (it is up to you to build that using torspy, AMR, or some other resource then correctly inputting on the spreadsheet).

 

In the Stat section is where you would run solver (from excel, the google one is weak). The thing being solved is the stat distribution between crit and power, between surge, alacrity, and accuracy, and between main stat and power augments. There are some other various modifications here as well, you can play with length of fight and have the moves as integers or you can ignore this, get rid of integers and find the best on average (or basically an optimal length fight, meaning, the length of a fight where your last best move would end ... it is a little complicated and not all that important for our purposes). Also in here is the ability to test iLVL 162 and 168 gear (69 mods vs 72), change the stim level (Between old and new) - and give artificial stat boosts (the only real need for this is that the old relics have more power on them than the new (47 instead of 32) so you would need to artificially add it). I ultimately found that manually changing the stats or enhancement number is more efficient than actually running solver.

 

Between these two tabs, tooling around or multiple solver runs, we can determine which mix of stats and specs returns the highest amount of potential average dps.

 

 

Results for Best Spec Lightning|Telekinetic and Madness|Balance

 

I want to first note that Lightning|Telekinetic and Madness|Balance have their own advantages in PvE. Madness|Balance has a lot more mobility, Lightning|Telekinetic has a bit more AoE potential (though Madness|Balance AoE was upgraded a little with a buff to FiB). This particular theory crafting is really based off a immobile dummy fight/parse. Even though the end result was a higher theoretical DPS on Lightning|Telekinetic (which proven true through parses), Madness|Balance may parse higher in an actual boss fight that requires more movement. Your choice on which to go with should purely be based off preference, they both parse very nicely.

 

Next, I want to point to Elidhu's analysis of different stats, abilities, and specs: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602013

 

He posted this early in PTS, and although there were a few updates, there is even more updated information now.

 

These are the results of the theory crafting as the best spec for Lightning|Telekinetic and Madness|Balance.

Telekinetic: http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/19/?build=210000000000000000000000000000000323022202120210023001020230001003020002000000000000000000000000&ver=20

Lightning: http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/12/?build=210000000000000000000000000000000323022202120210023001020230001003020002000000000000000000000000&ver=20

Balance: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/224/?build=230000000000000000000000000000000023000000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

Madness: http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sorcerer/12/?build=230000000000000000000000000000000023000000000000000000000000000003220322013100210122032002010100&ver=20

 

I'm going to go a bit into the stats first before I actually talk about why I took some points rather than others. Mind you, these are pure specs, not hybrids - so the requirement is that I take the top skill in the tree. There are obviously a few points that are optional - just as an example, the one point in Shapeless Spirit|Mental Defense could easily go into Surging Speed|metaphysical alacrity.

 

 

How Stats work 2.0+

 

I'll point to keyboardninja (excellent theorycrafter) thread on stat formula if you want to get into the details: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=615111

 

Remember, stats are a tradeoff. In order to increase accuracy, you must sacrifice an increase in alacrity and surge. In order to increase power, you reduce crit. So it isn't always that one stat is useless, it is just that an increase in one stat is marginally better than an increase in another. There is force power - but this is a set amount based on your armor iLVL, so I won't talk much about it.

 

There are three types of stats - your main stat, this is Willpower for sages; your primary stat, this is power or crit; and your secondary stat, this is alacrity, accuracy, and surge.

 

Accuracy

In general, force abilities now have a 5% miss chance on regular non-elite mobs and 10% on boss or elite mobs. Since we are talking about raid gearing here, BiS needs to factor in the 10% miss chance.

 

We have from both specs a 3% boost to accuracy and we can also get a 1% boost from companion affection (do it, since it is now super important). With that in mind we have a base 94% accuracy.

 

Accuracy has an extremely improved importance (we previously needed none before 2.0). Not only will our abilities get resisted, but we can also miss the application of an entire dot in addition to each individual tick - the loss in dps can be fairly monstrous if you have (in Madness|Balance) a Death Field|Force in Balance force suppression resisted.

 

Alacrity

Alacrity had a slight buff going into 2.0 in terms of effectiveness. However, the stat curve was pretty badly effected. The end result is actually less BiS alacrity than before. Alacrity now reduces the global cooldown of your abilities and simultaneously increases force regen an equal amount to the reduction of global cooldown percentage. I'll repeat that the reason it isn't as good is just because of the curve (stat formula). The other reason it still isn't great is because it does not hasten the rate in which dots tick (it does quicken channeling spells, though).

 

Surge

I'll just state, in case you don't know how this stat works, that it increases the amount of damage you do on a crit. So it is dependent on many factors - mainly crit% - but secondarily you have to consider accuracy and alacrity. Since the more hits you get, the more crits you have, the less misses you have, the more your surge is a factor :-D

 

Power and force power

Power remained completely untouched in 2.0 - and is our most important stat for increasing Damage ... more on that in a bit.

 

Critical Rating

The curve on this got smashed and made it almost useless. There isn't much to say on it - all you need to know is, the higher this stat, the slightly more you will crit on your spells.

 

Willpower

Willpower increases your +dmg (like power) and also your crit % (like crit rating). It offers slightly less +dmg than power for some crit. The crit it gives is less than the amount crit rating would give - again look at keyboardninja's thread for specifics on amounts (or play around with my spreadsheets which use those formulas).

 

Endurance

Increases health by 10 per stat - this is useless for us as we want to min/max damage, so we usually use mods that have the lowest endurance on them - more on that in a bit.

 

What is +damage?

When we talk about power and willpower (and force power too) adding +damage - it is not exactly what you think. If you have 1000 +damage total (on your character stat sheet) that does not mean your 1k damage ability will do 2k damage. Every ability has it's own +damage conversion/modifier. You can see these values using node viewer - I also have them in my spreadsheet. Disturbance is 1.5, as an example.

 

 

BiS Stats

 

First, let's talk about item slots.

 

You have 7 modifiable pieces for enhancements (Head, Chest, Gloves, Feet, Legs, Mainhand, Offhand). However, you really have 10 options for "enhancement equivalents." The additional three are 2x implants and 1x earpiece.

 

You have 9 modifiable pieces for Mods (same 7 as enhancement + belt and bracer). Again, you will have stat equivalents on 2ximplant and earpiece.

 

Last, you have two relics - I will talk about these later - but they do offer power on all of them, 29 for arkanian (iLVL 162) - each additional tier will have a few more points of power.

 

Of the mod pieces the ones you want are "unlettered" - for example "potency 28" as opposed to 28B or 28A. A 69 one (iLVL 162) will have these stats: 47 endurance, 63 main, 52 primary (no secondary). Underworld (72/ilvl 168) will have these stats: 52 endurance, 69 main, 57 primary (no secondary). Kell Dragon (75/174) has: 57 endurance, 75 main, 63 primary (no secondary).

 

You also have what I call "unlettered" enhancements - though that is just my name for them ... anyway the enhancements you want have this as a stat line:

arkanian - 41 endurance, 47 primary, 72 secondary (no main).

underworld - 46, 52, 79

Kell Dragon - 50, 57, 86

 

With the way crit is currently at the release of 2.0 - you do not want any crit at all at arkanian ... 0 crit, none, nada. This means all pieces you get should have power.

 

UPDATE 2.3: at Underworld, you can begin getting some crit with Madness|Balance, Lightning|Telekinetic still wants 0. For Madness|Balance, underworld allows for up 40-50 crit, kell dragon will allow for 130 for BiS. Going above or below these amounts will adversely effect your DPS - but only in very small numbers. For the sake of easily attaining BiS gear - it is not a bad idea to get 200+ crit, trading 1.5 total DPS for the ability to have 4 crit enhancements will help significantly in getting the highest tier enhancements.

 

As for secondary stats - this should be your goal for both Madness|Balance AND Lightning|Telekinetic:

Max Accuracy to 110% (which is really 100% hit since boss mobs have 10% defense). At Arkanian (69 mods, iLVL 162) you will get to about 109.97% or so with 6 enhancements. This is sufficient. At Underworld, you will end up with around 95.51% using 5 enhancements, using a 6th enhancement will put you too far past the cap that you are wasting stats, better served somewhere else. With Kell Dragon you will again be close to cap with 5 enhancements at around 99.95% accuracy.

 

surge -

Arkanian: 3 enhancements for balance 4 for Lightning|Telekinetic. I like to get surge implants and a surge ear - since if I ever have to go healing, I wouldn't need to replace these. For balance, this will provide 13.62% boost to damage on all your crits, total is 163.62% without factoring in spectree boosts.

Underworld: 3 surge for balance and 4 for Lightning|Telekinetic. total surge is 165.56% at this level for balance.

Kell Dragon: 4 surge for balance and Lightning|Telekinetic. Total surge is 168.56% at this level for both.

 

alacrity -

Arkanian: 1 enhancement for Madness|Balance 0 for Lightning|Telekinetic. This is a very slight revision, the total difference between the 2 is actually only 3 total DPS by switching the 1 surge to alacrity for Lightning|Telekinetic.

Underworld: 2 for Madness|Balance and 1 for Lightning|Telekinetic.

Kell Dragon: 1 for both

 

So, recap on enhancement or enhancement equivalent from implant ears ...

at arkanian:

TK: 6 accuracy, 4 surge

Balance: 6 accuracy, 3 surge, 1 alacrity

at underworld:

TK: 5 accuracy, 4 surge, 1 alacrity

Balance: 5 accuracy, 3 surge, 2 alacrity

at Kell dragon:

TK anb Balance: 5 accuracy, 4 surge, 1 alacrity

 

Just for clarification, the implant equivalent looks like this statwise for surge enhancement at arkanian (iLVL 162):

143 willpower, 98 power, 72 surge, 156 endurance - this piece is called arkanian stalker's mk-x package

 

For quick reference, these are the enhancements you may want:

Adept

Surge - Power - Endurance

 

Initiative

Accuracy - Power - Endurance

 

Acute

Accuracy - Crit - Endurance

 

Quick Savant

Alacrity - Power - Endurance

 

At Arkanian, I personally use 6 accuracy and 1 surge enhancement - the 3 surges/alacrity come from my implant and ear.

 

Note: It IS OK to get some crit. The difference in your dps is VERY slight and it makes it a TON easier to get the BiS gear. The power accuracy enhancement really only comes from the offhand for us, while the crit accuracy also drops from force-master boots and gloves.

 

 

AMR Profile links

 

See here for my Madness|Balance BiS AMR profile at the Underworld (168) level:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/9d32e4d3-1141-414a-a41c-e2e49e2f37ae

See here for my Lightning|Telekinetic BiS AMR profile at the Underworld (168) level:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/629f65ee-a695-4832-a69c-e7d134036293

 

See here for my balance BiS AMR profile at the Kell Dragon (174) level:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/dda48ba4-ea79-4d90-a988-4b886690d5b1

Notes:

-I am not doing one for Lightning|Telekinetic since the only difference is eliminating the crit from those 3 enhancements

-.19 DPS difference between 3 crit enhancements and 2 crit enhancements (2 is better than 3)

 

 

Relics

 

see all relics here:

 

There are three relics to consider after 2.0. There is a Power click relic, a power proc relic, and a damage proc relic. There is currently a bug with the power proc relics, the PVP ones in particular, that cause them to double proc on heals and damage, it is slated to be removed in 2.1.1 [Note: As of 2.3, the bug is back in, so double power proc is an option again (with one PvP and one PvE, which is better than before with two PvP). There are also four different types of damage proc relics, but the elemental force is the preferred (it ignores armor and works off force crit, as opposed to tech crit which we don't have much of). Also note, there is currently a bug with the PvP DMG proc relics - you will want the dark radiance for PvP purposes even though it is internal ... it says force. Go by the text and complain if they change it.

 

Of the relics - the power click relic and the power proc relic are the current BiS in a hypothetical situation. I'll provide the math, then go into some analysis:

30% proc chance means the average number of times it will take to hit is 1/.3=3.3333, sages, with our dots and all hit pretty quickly -

edit: I believe the hit rate is closer to 2 a second. I am still investigating, but the avg proc rate seems to be closer to 6.7-7 seconds, the math shows it should be proccing around 6.2 seconds ... see below

2 hits a second would mean a proc every 6.17 seconds. 2 hits/1 second / 3.33~ hits = 1.67 + 4.5 sec cooldown = 6.17. [Note: I believe this has been fixed to be closer to the mathematical model as of 2.3]

 

for power proc relic, same 30% chance proc, means same 1.67 seconds proc off cooldown which means procs every 21.67 seconds. It is up for 6 seconds on proc so utilization is 6/21.67*power - add this +damage to the spreadsheet for approximate DPS increase - the nice part of additional power is you can mix in a cooldown and this number actually goes up, as opposed to damage proc which is always the same dps no matter what (well, i mean, on average, because it does depend on luck).

 

Power click relic --- the main thing to note here is you can mix this in with other cooldowns, so the damage gets highly amplified. At arkanian, you get 395 power for 30 seconds with a 120 second cooldown. That is an average of 97.5 on uptime. Again, if you time it with cooldowns, it gets amplified.

 

[NOTE: IN 2.3 THE PROCCING ISSUE WAS FIXED, RESULTS SHOULD BE CLOSER TO MATHEMATICAL VALUES NOW] Update: I am going to prove a mathematical and a parse reflection on the DPS numbers here (M and P) and also at the Underworld and Kell Dragon levels (U and K). Math will be using 1.67 seconds to proc after cooldown and math will be using 2.5 seconds. For dmg proc that means a proc every 6.17 seconds or 7 seconds, for power proc that is every 21.67 or 22.5. Since clicky is based on when you click, the utilization is simply uptime/cooldown, which is 1/4. See below for comparison ...

 

Power Proc

M: U - 58.59 K - 63.38 DPS

P: U - 56.43 K -61.04 DPS

 

Dmg proc

M: U - 50.58 K - 54.98

P: U - 44.58 K - 48.46

 

Power click

both: U - 40.88 K -44.25

 

I believe the correct relics are situational. My preference is the power proc and the power click. I highly value the ability to match up the additional power with my cooldowns for huge burst damage situations.

 

However, the damage proc relic is good because the damage is instant - the power proc can happen any time - even during or right before boss immunity, effectively wiping away it's effectiveness. Essentially, the added control of the power click makes it more valuable to me.

 

Note, once the bugs are fixed, the pvp power proc is not that great a choice for PvE, merely because of the lower static power - ultimately it falls below the other two choices (it is an OK filler until you pick up your second PvE relic, though).

 

Additional updated note: After a lot of parsing, I decided that power proc and power click is indeed the best combo. Even now with the bug of double power proc, I think that power click is probably the absolute best in any case.

 

 

Augments

 

I'm going to keep this simple and short. Power or Willpower are the two main choices (I did take a look to see if accuracy was helpful, they aren't better). So between power and willpower, willpower is still the better augment, for now. The only reason it is, is due to speccing into will of the jedi, which provides an extra 6% - and the buff on willpower, an additional 5% (total of 11%). After factoring that in you are getting .222 damage per every point of augmented willpower vs .23 damage for every point of power. Also, from willpower, you get a slight crit chance. At max arkanian, you are around 2575 willpower - with augments you go up to 3071 - this is an increase in crit chance of 1.05%. That little extra crit chance puts makes up for the small +damage difference and makes willpower better. There may come a day where power makes more sense, but that day has not yet come.

 

The total DPS difference between full power and full willpower augments in arkanian is only about 5 total dps.

 

 

Parses

 

You can check here to see how sages can compare against other classes: http://www.torparse.com/statistics

 

If you want to see me specifically, I am only in the 16 man HM logs - I parse particularly well on Operator IX, Cartel Warlords, Kephess The Undying, Ciphas Heirad and Kelsara (Dread Council), Thrasher, Operations Chief. I could do better on some fights than I am, but I am the raid leader and have certain responsibilities that hurt my DPS (like clicking on the shield generator for Dash'Roode). Update: I did some parses without raid leading a couple nights and jumped up the tables a bit, there are only a few fights where I haven't been in top 5/10/20.

 

If you want to see how I compare to other sages that upload their parses - on the upper right where it says "All AC" change it to "Jedi Sage." Don't forget to also compare with Sorcs, of which are the primary other people who upload.

 

Lightning|Telekinetic: http://www.torparse.com/a/299063/time/1371727640/1371727954/0/Damage+Dealt - 2978

note that Lightning|Telekinetic was a sorcerer and not my parse

 

Madness|Balance:

2829: this one was me - http://www.torparse.com/a/302111/1/0/Damage+Dealt it is in fully optimized 72s.

 

 

Rotation

 

These are my rotations and not necessarily the best rotations - they are more or less what the spreadsheet tells you to do, though. I can speak much more from experience on Madness|Balance - I currently have one of the highest parses on the DPS tracking thread.

 

Balance

WM --> FiB --> SF --> TT --> MC (off proc) --> TT --> disturbance (conditional)

 

From there - it is FiB off cooldown, keep WM and SF up always, usually you can put in one disturbance before you need to refresh WM - I typically only cast one disturbance even if it procs again because one disturbance will make it so your TT doesn't run past when you need to refresh your dots - and so you will more likely have the proc up again for MC.

 

edit: I have been just casting disturbance whenever it procs now, seems to have a positive effect over a 5 minute parse though I tend to run out of force when I do this. If you ever have to prioritize MC proc or FiB - do MC first unless you have force potency, in which case you will want to use those charges on FiB and TT.

 

I'd use the first set of cooldowns (adrenal, mental alacrity, any click relic (power click), and force potency) all at once right after I cast WM for Balance. I continue using cooldowns as they come up and time force potency to hit a TT and FiB. I also just time up my mental alacrity with my click relic.

 

Madness

AF --> DF --> CT --> FL --> CD (off proc) --> FL --> LS (wrath procced, if CD isn't near ready)

 

From there - it is DF off cooldown, keep AF and CT up always, usually you can put in one LS before you need to refresh CD - I typically only cast one LS even if it procs again because one LS will make it so your FL doesn't run past when you need to refresh your dots - and so you will more likely have the proc up again for CD.

 

edit: I have been just casting LS whenever it procs now, seems to have a positive effect over a 5 minute parse though I tend to run out of force when I do this. If you ever have to prioritize CD proc or FiB - do CD first unless you have force potency, in which case you will want to use those charges on DF and FL.

 

I'd use the first set of cooldowns (adrenal, polarity shift, any click relic (power click), and recklessness) all at once right after I cast AF for Madness. I continue using cooldowns as they come up and time force potency to hit a FL and DF. I also just time my polarity shift up with my click relic.

 

Telekinetic

keep WM up, MC off cooldown, turbulence off cooldown, tk wave off proc, TT on proc, fill with disturbance. It is usually best to start with your MC and time the cast time with when your tank is about to engage.

 

For cooldowns - tougher to say, the more often, the better, typically, like with balance. However, you want your force crit to hit on something that isn't already autocritting - so I'd say after your turbulence and hopefully on a TK wave / TT proc.

 

Some advice from Kindran:

Do not sit and wait for an ability. If Turbulence or Mind Crush have 1sec left then cast a Disturbance.

 

1) Always make sure Weaken Mind is up and do not clip it

2) Don't stop casting

3) If Weaken Mind has 1-2 seconds left and Turbulence comes up, use Disturbance > Weaken Mind > Turbulence

4) Use procs when you can't use Turbulence or Mind Crush

 

One extra thing I wanted to add to this. You should only use Telekinetic Wave or Telekinetic Throw with their procs when you would be casting Disturbance. If you use one of these when you can cast Turbulence or Mind Crush instead it will be a dps loss. You do not have to use the procs just as you get them.

 

The reason for this is because you are losing potential hits on Turbulence and Mind Crush when you don't use them on cooldown, but the only time you lose potential hits for TW and TkT is when you lose the proc or it gets overwritten. This will not happen for a guaranteed 10 seconds minimum from when they procced. So within this time find a spot where you would cast Disturbance and replace it with the procs.

 

Ktap/Handcuff/Stomach on his opener:

Please note, your tank must know what he/she's doing or you will pull aggro, this is a lot of burst. If necessary you can just cast a few disturbances as an opener before you blow all your cooldowns. Don't forget to use your Cloud Mind!

 

1. Mind Crush in to Weaken Mind (time it to hit after the tank pulls)

 

2. Once the gcd is almost up, hit Mental Alacrity, your attack adrenal and your Boundless Ages relic (I wait until the gcd is almost up so I get a little extra time on them, weird but it works. You must have all 3 key bound to be able to do this)

 

3. Turbulence (assuming you get Tidal Force proc here)

 

4. Disturbance

 

5. Force Potency in to instant Telekenetic Wave (this should count the Disturbance you just cast previously since there is a delay from when you cast until it hits. If you hit Force Potency after a Disturbance, and try to cast another disturbance before your Telekinetic Wave it could use both your crits on Disturbance, which isn't necessarily bad, but you really want that Telekinetic Wave to crit.

 

6. Assuming Psychotic Projection proc, use Telekinetic Throw.

 

7. Four Disturbances (five if no Telekinetic Throw proc)

 

8. Turbulence (assuming you get Tidal Force proc here)

 

9. Disturbance in to instant Telekinetic Wave (these will hit just before your adrenal and Mental Alacrity wear off, if you do not get the Tidal Force proc, use two Disturbances and start your normal rotation with Mind Crush)

 

Here is a parse of my 'normal' 28 second opener (using everything I can during 30 second relic), assuming mechanics allow me to basically just sit there. Obviously procs are random to some extent, so you must always be watching them while keeping your operation awareness high (you also will eventually get a feel for when they 'could' be coming back since they are only locked out for 10 seconds).

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/383658/time/1376450957/1376450985/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Lightning

keep AF up, CD off cooldown, Thundering Blast off cooldown, CL off proc, FL on proc, fill with LS. It is usually best to start with your CD and time the cast time with when your tank is about to engage.

 

For cooldowns - tougher to say, the more often, the better, typically, like with madness. However, you want your force crit to hit on something that isn't already autocritting - so I'd say after your thundering blast and hopefully on a CL / FL proc.

 

Some advice from Kindran:

Do not sit and wait for an ability. If Thundering Black or Crushing Darkness have 1sec left then cast a Lightning Strike.

 

1) Always make sure Affliction is up and do not clip it

2) Don't stop casting

3) If Affliction has 1-2 seconds left and Thudnering Blast comes up, use Lightning Strike > Affliction > Thundering Blast

4) Use procs when you can't use Thundering Blast or Crushing Darkness

 

One extra thing I wanted to add to this. You should only use Chain Lightning or Force Lightning with their procs when you would be casting Lightning Strike. If you use one of these when you can cast Thundering Blast or Crushing Darkness instead it will be a dps loss. You do not have to use the procs just as you get them.

 

The reason for this is because you are losing potential hits on Thundering Blast and Crushing Darkness when you don't use them on cooldown, but the only time you lose potential hits for CL and FL is when you lose the proc or it gets overwritten. This will not happen for a guaranteed 10 seconds minimum from when they procced. So within this time find a spot where you would cast Lightning Strike and replace it with the procs.

 

 

Leveling Spec and Gear/Advice

 

I will keep this brief because I fully believe that you do not need to min/max in order to level your character up from 1 to 55. However, it is frequently asked about on the forums, so I figured to provide some guidance. Let's begin with specs ...

 

Specs

Firstly, healing is viable to level up with - I did it when the game first came out. I leveled my Sorc in full Madness. Of the two, DPS was a ton faster to level with. My point is, both are entirely viable, you will just have a faster time with DPS. I will stress the fact that it is not worth scrutinizing every little detail while leveling up. I am just going to go over some possible routs of how you can spec, you need not follow it to the letter if you find something more comfortable. I will be doing this in sage terms only, it would be a cluster to do this in both. All the skills are in the same space, so if you don't know the name for sorcs, just go by positioning on the Sage tree: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/sage

Heal

If you do choose a heal spec to level with - it is simple - just go up the left side tree, your path might look like this:

3 Penetrating light - 2 Force Gift - 2 Immutable Force - 1 Foresight - 2 Psychic Suffering - 1 rejuvenate - 2 preservation - 2 conveyance - 2 force shelter - 1 mend wound - 2 pain bearer - 1 healing trance - 2 serenity - 2 life ward - 2 replendence - 3 clairvoyance - 3 force warden - 2 valiance - 1 salvation --- 3 inner strength - 2 mental longevity - 2 telekinetic defense --- 2 will of the jedi --- 1 amnesty

The general idea is to pick up your new heals as soon as you can. These are what really make you a healer, let alone a more powerful one. Some people choose to do a hybrid of heal/dps - this is entirely feasible. This healing path is more for group/flashpoint work (which is my preferred way to level when healing). Again, other people will have other tastes.

DPS - Full Balance

Again, the idea of this is to get some of the more powerful skills first, to make you an actual balance player. I'd note, this is my preffered PvP path as well. Path may look like this (note, I like to go all out damage rather than CC - CC is more careful and you'll die less, so you may want to think about that if you are having trouble killing regular trash):

3 empowered throw - 2 will of the jedi - 2 critical kinesis - 3 drain thoughts - 1 force in balance - 1 telekinetic balance - 3 psychic barrier - 1 presence of mind - 2 focused insight - 2 mind ward - 1 force suppression - 2 mind warp - 2 rippling force - 3 mental scarring - 2 psychic absorption - 2 telekinetic focal point - 2 jedi resistance - 1 mental defense - 1 sever force --- 3 inner strength - 2 mental longevity --- 3 penetrating light - 2 force gift

DPS - Full TK

Same thing as balance, really. Go straight up tree for skills. I always ignore CC type stuff - up to you what you prefer, this is what I'd go:

3 inner strength - 2 mental longevity (can put elsewhere when you respec later, if you'd like) - 2 concentration - 2 clamoring force - 1 telekinetic defense - 1 telekinetic wave - 2 telekinetic effusion - 2 psychic projection - 1 tidal force - 2 cascading force - 1 telekinetic defense - 1 mind's eye - 3 telekinetic momentum - 2 tremors - 1 flowing force - 2 reverberation - 2 kinetic collapse - 3 mental momentum - 2 force haste - 1 turbulence --- 2 will of the jedi --- 2 force gift --- 3 empowered throw - 2 critical kinesis - 1 penetrating light

DPS - Hybrid TK heavy/Balance

I've never leveled up with this one, but it is a nice AoE based leveling spec. It won't do as much sustained single target, but you'll definitely blow up packs like no other. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/sage#2-2100322122121220320-1001312030203

3 inner strength - 2 mental longevity - 2 clamoring force - 2 concentration - 1 telekinetic defense - 1 telekinetic wave --- 2 will of the jedi - 3 empowered throw - 2 critical kinesis - 3 drain thoughts - 1 force in balance - 1 telekinetic balance - 3 psychic barrier - 1 presence of mind --- 2 psychic projection - 2 telekinetic effusion - 1 tidal force - 2 cascading force - 2 kinetic collapse - 3 telekinetic momentum - 2 tremors - 2 reverberation - 1 flowing force - 2 force gift (or crit)

Alternatively to this path - I'd go up to tidal force before beginning my balance tree. You can alternatively go up the balance tree first before doing the full TK - the choice is yours, they are about equal.

DPS - Hybrid Balance heavy/TK

Same, but more balancey:

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-sage/19/?build=020000000000000000000000000000000302122002120010000000000000000003020322013100210122030000000000&ver=20

I much prefer the TK heavy one.

 

Gear/Advice

Gearing is fairly simple. You basically take what you get. Obviously you want to grab willpower things - take the low endurance options (as in, higher main/secondary stat). If you feel like you want to augment, power is actually better until you get will of the jedi, then willpower is better. Augmenting should not be needed while leveling. Eventually when you get more secondary stat options, surge is going to benefit you the most as heal and DPS. As a DPS, you will want to maintain 105% accuracy - stats scale weirdly as you level, so there is no magic number here on the rating, just make sure the actual % is near 105% (over is useless, so stay a bit under if anything). Power is always preferred over crit as you level, as well.

 

Again, if you run into trouble with a pack - use your CC's and stun. Sage DPS is great at kiting (especially in balance) so keep your distance on single mobs that are destroying you. Use Line of Sight when needed. I level up with Qyzen and switch to Nadia when I get her. On really tough fights I'll take the healing companion in (if you do this, make sure you turn off all his attacks so he just heals). If you have/buy HK (or treek now) - they are probably great options as well for leveling. Do not forget to interrupt, it is the key to winning many of the "harder" fights. When you get in a lot of trouble, don't forget your knockbacks and force speed (if you have the ability to force speed away, run jump turn around and knockback without slowing your run, all the more power to you, it is pretty difficult to do).

 

 

Name Equivalents

 

Shock|Project

Force Lightning|Telekinetic Throw

Lightning Strike|Disturbance

Crushing Darkness|Mind Crush

Affliction|Weaken Mind

Force Storm|Forcequake

Chain Lightning|Telekinetic Wave

Thundering Blast|Turbulence

Death Field|Force in Balance

Creeping Terror|Sever Force

Overload|Force Wave

Recklessness|Force Potency

Polarity Shift|Mental Alacrity

 

 

Edited by Nibbon
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Updates:

4/18 - updated relics section a bit

5/7 - inserted BiS profile from AskMrRobot

5/11 - added parse

5/13 - updated underworld statting issue (accuracy crosses over 110%, one accuracy should be replaced by an alacrity for both specs)

5/27 - updated spreadsheets to include the newest tier (kell dragon - ilvl 174 / mods 75)

5/29 - Updated OP to incorporate new information on new gear tier and new analysis on relics which is always ongoing ...

6/24 - updated with sorc terms so that the guide can be more accessible

8/14 - updated with Ktaps opener on TK - updated format - change dark blue to light blue for readability - updated some things, especially on relic change - added a new section about leveling

Edited by Nibbon
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Hey Nibbon, I didn't see it in the post and I was wondering what the dps difference was between Clamoring Force and Force Gift talents. This would be for full Balance spec.

 

About 14 DPS on average lower - I did thorough testing on PTS with the difference on force gift and clamoring force and can confirm I did parse lower more times than not with clamoring force.

 

Fun fact - if you took two points out of penetrating light and put them into clamoring force, you would also lose 14 dps on average.

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Hey Nibbon, appreciate all of the information. The two proc relics do work together, one of my guildmates has tested this. So what you are saying is that the power and damage proc are better, but the power click may be better depending on the situation?
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Fun note, I purchased the PvP power proc relic(+410) just because... Then the next day I got the Arkanian (+510 power)

 

They can stack and and aren't on the same 20 second timer.

Edited by MaliceX
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And, just for information, I believe the enhancements we're after are:

 

Proficient

Studious

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Accuracy-Endurance-Power

 

Discipline

Efficient

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Surge-Endurance-Power

 

Barrage

Savant

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Alacrity-Endurance-Power

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Relics have never been my strong point :)

So, with a TK Sage the 2 relics to use may well be:

 

Arkanian Relic of Serendipitous Assault

&

Arkanian Relic of Elemental Transcendence

 

Arkanian Relic of Boundless Ages is your third choice - you should mix and match based upon your own preferences. If you are bad at clicking/activating cool downs, then the two you are listed are better - and on many fights will net you more DPS anyway. On fights like Kephess in TFB, the power click raises in value. But yeah, you have the names right :)

 

I've been spending my time doing practicing on lvl 55 Operation Dummy, getting a lot of resists on it..my accuracy is at 105% what is suppose to be my accuracy as TK Sage.

 

110% - it's in the writeup

 

Hey Nibbon, appreciate all of the information. The two proc relics do work together, one of my guildmates has tested this. So what you are saying is that the power and damage proc are better, but the power click may be better depending on the situation?

 

I revised that part a little - it is a personal choice. On fights where there are boss immunity or heavy movement - it is better to have a power click relic than the power proc relic so you can actually decide when you want that power boost. That being said - it should proc somewhere around 12-14 times over the course of a 5 minute fight, so if you lose one, you aren't losing its total effectiveness.

Edited by Nibbon
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So Nibbon what are your thoughts on the power proc and power click relic. I already have the Underworld power proc and am still using DG clicky and I like the feel of it. Is this that far behind the 2 procs or damage proc/power clicky?
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So Nibbon what are your thoughts on the power proc and power click relic. I already have the Underworld power proc and am still using DG clicky and I like the feel of it. Is this that far behind the 2 procs or damage proc/power clicky?

 

I think you can't really go wrong. Anything beyond that I have already expressed in the original writeup (revised this morning) - but in summation, you are fine using the power click relic, I like it for situational fights and plan on using it in my normal gearing (along with the damage proc relic, which I already have).

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Awesome work as usual Nibbon. Balance Q for you: You say you pop CDs after the WM. That means SF eats up your second Potency, doesn't it? I was under the impression that you always wanted Potency to go to TTx2 or FiB+TT. Am I out of the loop on the theory there?
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Awesome work as usual Nibbon. Balance Q for you: You say you pop CDs after the WM. That means SF eats up your second Potency, doesn't it? I was under the impression that you always wanted Potency to go to TTx2 or FiB+TT. Am I out of the loop on the theory there?

 

SF does not eat up a potency. It will be consumed on FiB and a TT.

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I was wondering about gearing for hybrid balance, would that just be the same as full balance?

 

Obviously the details I was able to give about gearing was a very detailed analysis based off the specific specs and their relationship with the different stats. Without performing the same level of analysis, I couldn't confidently give you the same opinion I am able to for the specs I have researched.

 

That being said, I see no reason why the hybrids wouldn't fall in a similar gearing pattern as they would with full TK and full Balance - as prior to 2.0, the hybrids fell inbetween the two in terms of gearing. Given that they are so similar now, I would think that hybrid would also gear similarly.

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And, just for information, I believe the enhancements we're after are:

 

Proficient

Studious

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Accuracy-Endurance-Power

 

Discipline

Efficient

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Surge-Endurance-Power

 

Barrage

Savant

Both of these have the stats in the following order: Alacrity-Endurance-Power

 

Without looking up everything ya just posted I believe the first ones you posted are the high +End enhancements (which seems to be the ones you posted for all of them, not sure why)

 

Initiative is the lower endurance one, with Accuracy then power then End

Edited by MaliceX
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Obviously the details I was able to give about gearing was a very detailed analysis based off the specific specs and their relationship with the different stats. Without performing the same level of analysis, I couldn't confidently give you the same opinion I am able to for the specs I have researched.

 

That being said, I see no reason why the hybrids wouldn't fall in a similar gearing pattern as they would with full TK and full Balance - as prior to 2.0, the hybrids fell inbetween the two in terms of gearing. Given that they are so similar now, I would think that hybrid would also gear similarly.

Since Hybrid doesn't pick up Sever Force (30% surge from Mental Scarring), Surge should be very slightly better than it is for full Balance due to its additive nature... so the difference between 6 accuracy/4 surge and 6 accuracy/3 surge/1 alacrity should be barely measurable, I guess.

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