The words "you are stupid" are found nowhere within my messages. Continue to troll yourself, please.

 

Nice try as you see i wrote Back to the ''you are stupid'' talk as in IMPLYING WITHIN your words!

 

but ye you are the people who cry over everything cos you are crying over everyone who has more than you all around in a GAME...

 

It will be ok np... Luckily for you soon only such kind of casuals will remain and they will be happy in their awesome world of MMOs where they log in and in MAIL awaits a full PURPLE set or better yet they create char with purple set on it.... or lets give them legendary?

 

Why bother!

Nice try as you see i wrote Back to the ''you are stupid'' talk as in IMPLYING WITHIN your words!

 

but ye you are the people who cry over everything cos you are crying over everyone who has more than you all around in a GAME...

 

It will be ok np... Luckily for you soon only such kind of casuals will remain and they will be happy in their awesome world of MMOs where they log in and in MAIL awaits a full PURPLE set or better yet they create char with purple set on it.... or lets give them legendary?

 

Why bother!

 

There is not one piece of evidence to support anything you've written here. Whatever you perceived is what the general world calls opinion. Just because you perceived it, does not mean that I meant it that way. That's another thing that distinguishes your perception of reality from actual reality.

 

I'm also not really sure who you are referring to with the "you are the people" statement. I wasn't aware that anything about me is known. I didn't know I belonged to some unnamed group of people with clearly defined intentions and mindset. This is definitely news!

 

I haven't cried about anything, I'm simply restating all the arguments that have been used in this thread to cry(imagine that!) about the mechanic that Bioware is implementing. I'm afraid you've given the perception that you didn't read or understand all of the original message I posted, which is unfortunate.

 

I'm not aware of any game that exists, as of yet, that has a mechanic where a player logs in and receives items for simply logging in. You'll have to show it to me when it comes out, because that'll be amazing to see. As it stands, I believe that Star Wars: The Old Republic only awards items to players who complete some sort of content, whether it be a mission or something else.

 

I'm really not sure why anyone would play that sort of game and I generally don't like to speculate in such uncovered ground.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Andex

I dont really see the problem.

Just let the "casuals", "Solo PVE Player" get raidgear.

 

Good Gear != Good Player.

If he has no situational awareness, I'll kick him.

If his DPS are to low, I'll kick him.

 

We "topraiders" have something the casuals can't get.

Titles :-)

 

Bingo! Let the accomplishment stand on its' own 2 feet. Titles, tropies - there are plenty of ways to let rest of the world know you are "The Best Player Ever"

 

Exclusive speeders.

 

Perks. Reduced Quick Travel Times. Excessive emergency fleet passes.

 

I will respect the Hard - Core raiders that want to have vastly superior gear to everyone else, if they just admit the truth about why they want it.

 

E-Peen. I must be awesome, you must suck, because I have 17k hps, and you only have 15.5.

 

People like you sir, get the point about what rading is about. The accomplishment. I applaud you!

Now, wait just one cotton pickin' minute.

 

Now, seeing as how I'm a hardcore raider, you have to have Best-in-Slot gear to go on my raid. Well, that sucks for you, because that means that if you've somehow managed to get through this impenetrable logic loop and gotten columi implants and ear pieces, you aren't allowed to go, because you don't have rakata implants and earpieces. That means you aren't a raider, because you aren't elite.

 

End of story.

 

^

This is the logic brought to the table by the "hardcore" raiders.

 

If any of you so called "raiders" never had to pull your own weight, then you aren't raiders. I estimate this to be every person in this thread who is complaining about the game mechanic.

 

You pay $15 to log into this game and push some buttons. Some other person you've never met in your life and probably never will meet also pays $15 to log into this game and push some buttons.

 

You aren't Bioware. You don't decide who gets what and how they get it. If you don't like that, unsubscribe. No one is FORCING you to play this game, after all. If you don't care and you get this post for the satire that it's meant to be, drive on, friend, drive on. Because I imagine you laughed, instead of wound up being the next youtube video of a 14-year-old kid smashing the computer Mommy and Daddy bought him into oblivion.

 

Lol! Love this post. Thanks.

 

The Raiding Elitist won't get it. As you can see. But to be fair I'm pretty sure many of us don't get them either so we are at an impasse. But its worth asking a few pertinent questions.

 

1. Why do the Raiding Elitist care? There seems to be a status issue here. They are very concerned with a meritocracy of sorts. But, quite frankly, many of us aren't in this for status or to prove our merit. So it would seem that their accomplishments are diminished and they need to prove something. After all they have put in the time.

 

2. Who are the Raiding Elitist grouping with? It seems they have a rigorous and exacting vetting process that requires meters. And, it would seem that they wouldn't raid with pick up groups. Yet, they are concerned with a strangers performance and or suckage. So... does this mean that they do raids with unknown individuals outside of their respective "hardcore" raiding guild. Given what they have explained why would they do that?

 

3. So... if their guild or group is based strictly on performance, then... how do they get better as a group or team? Assuming that they won't lower themselves to teach weaker players, are they then already at the pinnacle? And if so, why even play if the game is so easy?

 

Personally, I don't stand around the fleet and inspect gear. I don't start pick up groups for Ops NM. I don't really care where you got your gear or that you have completed every Op NM 10 times over. I'm here to play with a community of people that enjoy gaming. I'm here to help guildies and improve my technics. I'm here to progress through all of the end game content, enjoy it, and help others do the same. It does not require all that I am; but it does require some time. It's not rocket science...

 

So my advice in general is get gear where ever you can. Practice and improve your technics. Work with friends new and old to progress through the content. Let the Raiding Elites go where they will. If the lower classes aren't there... I wonder who they will be showing their shiny cool gear off too?

I'm a fairly new level 50 and right now this raider vs. non-raider debate seems as pointless to me as this warzone I just stumbled into on Ilum. (is there an objective to this area BTW???)

 

I'm one of the the new 50's with no PvP gear ATM... and about 20-ish on valor. Taking a little adjusting to get into PvP but I seem to not be too horrible. Even with my meager gear I'm able to eek out a few matches where I manage not to be the last ranked and/or most often killed.

 

At first I was a little apprehensive and maybe upset with myself for not getting into PvP earlier. However, after now playing my 20th straight match of huttball, I'm sorta glad I wasn't subjected to it any earlier!!!

 

I fit the description of married with kids, full time job, etc. etc... I have no problem investing time and effort into acquiring the new gear, and from what I have heard, there are raids/FP's that will get me that gear if I'm just willing to set aside 2-3 hours of gameplay time. To me, that does not seem unreasonable.

 

My only potential issue/concern with the raid experience at this point is whether or not the larger 8-16 man raids result in gear that is unattainable any other way. And the only reason it concerns me is related to the fact that I'm on (apparently one of many) med to low pop servers and I literally would have to muster every idle 50 to my cause in order to run the raid. ...and honestly that is not a game-breaker for me either cuz I'm building my own guild right now and have at least 8-10 in the mid-40 range that I'll soon be able to call upon.

 

So I really don't know what all the fuss is with the "I have a life" argument if all we're talking about here is a few hours of gameplay once or twice a week. There does seem to be a social element to this and I can see how some people might find themselves in a bind if they just don't know how to communicate.

 

Now, over on the die-hard raider PvP'ers side... I don't undestand how you all keep coming back to play this huttball game and yet maintain your 1 pt social status without unsubbing after a month out of shear boredom.

 

I think to fully enjoy the game both sides have to be somewhat willing to explore how the other half lives a little bit. ...like at least 70/30 maybe?

What MMO's have you played the past 10 years? The bolded statement is false with almost everyone I have talked to in any MMO I have played.

 

Take away the carrot on the stick and you take away the reason to raid.

 

That's like saying take away the reward and you take away the reason to play the game. Tell me, what reward comes from playing consol games? what reward came from playing the original KOTOR? What you think is that people do not play the game for the sake of playing the game. They only play to get gear. It is a stupid presumption. This is a game for a reason. That is not to say that getting gear isn't motivation to continuously raid after you've already completed it, but it is not the primary reason. I, like everyone I play with, raid or whatever else, do so not for the carrot on the stick as you so wrongly assume, but because we enjoy the game.

Lol! Love this post. Thanks.

 

The Raiding Elitist won't get it. As you can see. But to be fair I'm pretty sure many of us don't get them either so we are at an impasse. But its worth asking a few pertinent questions.

 

1. Why do the Raiding Elitist care? There seems to be a status issue here. They are very concerned with a meritocracy of sorts. But, quite frankly, many of us aren't in this for status or to prove our merit. So it would seem that their accomplishments are diminished and they need to prove something. After all they have put in the time.

 

2. Who are the Raiding Elitist grouping with? It seems they have a rigorous and exacting vetting process that requires meters. And, it would seem that they wouldn't raid with pick up groups. Yet, they are concerned with a strangers performance and or suckage. So... does this mean that they do raids with unknown individuals outside of their respective "hardcore" raiding guild. Given what they have explained why would they do that?

 

3. So... if their guild or group is based strictly on performance, then... how do they get better as a group or team? Assuming that they won't lower themselves to teach weaker players, are they then already at the pinnacle? And if so, why even play if the game is so easy?

 

Personally, I don't stand around the fleet and inspect gear. I don't start pick up groups for Ops NM. I don't really care where you got your gear or that you have completed every Op NM 10 times over. I'm here to play with a community of people that enjoy gaming. I'm here to help guildies and improve my technics. I'm here to progress through all of the end game content, enjoy it, and help others do the same. It does not require all that I am; but it does require some time. It's not rocket science...

 

So my advice in general is get gear where ever you can. Practice and improve your technics. Work with friends new and old to progress through the content. Let the Raiding Elites go where they will. If the lower classes aren't there... I wonder who they will be showing their shiny cool gear off too?

 

The answer to number 1.

 

E-Peen. It always has been the answer, and it always will be the answer. Since "Raiding" began 15 some odd years ago, part - NOT ALL, of the raiding crowd raids because they need some sort of tangible proof of self worth in a game setting.

 

They need a measuring stick, or insecurity prevails.

 

Having superior gear to someone else satisfies this need for some. Some people interact better in a social setting, if in their minds, they are speaking to people that are inferior to them. Superior gear - satisfies this.

 

For some, NOT ALL, DPS meters fill this role.

 

But in both cases, DPS meters and Superior gear, a portion of the player base uses both as measuring sticks of self worth and self validation. The very worst of this crowd uses both to belittle others, and it's unfortunate.

Needless to say i did not take half my day to read through 51 pages of posts. that being said if i missed something or took something out of context i apologize. I've been lvl 50 for awhile but play in a small, what u would refer to as, guild, which consists of few fam members and rl friends. That being said when i reached level 50 i hadnt aligned myself with any "hardcore raid groups" as u put it and really spent my first 3 weeks at lvl 50 playing on alts. A person can only wz so many times back to back before it stops being entertaining. I run dailies here and there and mainly try to diversify my play as much as possible. The problem i see here with this Elite -vs- Casual is for someone like myself. I play a good amount but because i havent latched onto a raid group should i be barred from getting that gear? Furthermore, how many of u so called "elites" were dragged through and geared out by ur respectives groups. I constantlky see guilds advertising "we'll gear u out if u join" so should the player who plays just as much as the "elites" be punished because he/she didnt have ppl drag them through ops etc.? I dont think so. Yet here i am decently geared hybrid tank guardian and i cant find a group to run anything with. I just think ppl who feel they r "elite" should try and remember that it was through the help and assistance of other players better then u that helped u get where u r. Somewhere along the way mmo's became like high school cliques. Either ur a cool kid and ur accepted and welcomed with open arms or ur the uncool kid that everyone brushes off and doesnt associate with. Hopefully decent friendly players will eventually prevail. until then this ones for the uncool kids.

OUT

Why is this post 51 pages?

 

You can get 6 Black Hole Comms per WEEK from dailies. Each item costs between 35 and 60 Comms. This means it will take someone a minimum of 6 weeks, maximum of 10, to get one item. ONE ITEM!

 

That's 10 WEEKS. Not days, WEEKS.

 

Assuming you play a class that does not dual wield, it takes 460 Black Hole Comms to get a full set. That will take you 77 weeks to accomplish. For those of you bad at math, that's roughly a year and a half.

 

Even after putting in all that time, the Raiders STILL have better gear, since you cannot get a Weapon, or set bonuses solely through Black Hole Comms, and got that gear exponentially faster.

 

If it takes you, as a raider, longer than a year and a half to farm a full set off of four bosses, then you should stop playing this game immediately.

 

Any raider that feels threatened by this ridiculously slow gear progression by the "casuals" is bad and should feel bad.

 

/thread

my guild read this they all made the choice that they will cancel subscriptions.

a few that are near member cap. All their members too were debating to cancel their subs.

 

People raid to make themselves better with gear and as a player. This is not done SOLO. Solo Players can cry all they want about wanting RAID GEAR, they do not deserve it and have not earned it by SOLO Content. Its RAID GEAR for a reason. PEOPLE RAID FOR IT, NOT SOLO!

 

 

So if a game is anything like WoW, people have to whine and complain.

But if a game tries to do something Different than WoW or other games(Raiders = best gear), people have to whine and complain.

 

Did it ever occur to you whining about this that the main reason anyone would have to burn the Massive Hours on getting single pieces via the Hard Mode missions is to Wear that gear ON RAIDS?

 

Apply more than 2 brain cells for a moment. They get this by ?? Doing the non-raid content on HARD mode. What do they gain from the gear if they aren't going to raid? Making the missions even Less Interesting?

 

 

Stop whining that someone else might work LONGER and HARDER by themselves to get something you can get on the backs of your guildmates. Seriously.

I am an older gamer ... 43 to be exact. I too, am one of those married with kids types that doesn't have an overabundance of time to throw at a game.

 

I have NO issues with Raiders acquiring gear that I cannot because of my time constraints. I do, however, have an issue with meters, of any kind, being used in any game to judge a persons worth to the Raid. If you don't want to take the time to make your community stronger by teaching "weaker" players the ins and outs, then simply stop asking in /general for a pug group to just fill spots.

 

I don't think I am entitled to anything in this game. Only through constant "tweaking" and playing am I going to get better and better. All I have ever asked from any group I have been in is to give me a chance to do my best and if it's not the case then so be it, I'll leave voluntarily, but at least give me the chance.

 

The game has only been out 4 months. No one could possibly have this game COMPLETELY figured out to the point you are on cruise control 100% of the time in any Operation.

1.2 PvE Gear:

 

"Campaign" hard Raid Gear is Rating 146 (Mod Slot 61)

"Blackhole" Corellia Commendation Gear is Rating 146 (Mod Slot 61)

 

Whats the point of raiding in SWTOR when I can just run some faceroll dailies and get "hard mode" raid gear.

 

Raiding in this game keeps getting worse not better. GW2 out yet?

 

It allows everyone access to some kind of decent pve gear

I dont think I understand why you are complaining. You can raid with friends and complete awesome objectives to get cool gear,(which is why you do it right? for fun?) other people can do mindless repetitive tasks every day for a month straight to get one piece of your raid gear and you call shinanigans? Nobody is going to be fully geared from coriellia anytime soon, and not nearly as fast as you can while raiding.

YOu can combie the dailies with your raids too if you want,

14 black hole comms per week... 50 comms for a good piece, 30 for a bad piece. Wouldn't it take like... 3 months to make a set of HARD MODE loot? Not to mention, Nightmare mode forthcoming, for which there will be no dailies. Doing hard mode is essential to learn the fights so you can actually have a chance at nightmare mode.

Stop whining that someone else might work LONGER and HARDER by themselves to get something you can get on the backs of your guildmates. Seriously.

 

Yeah, that 4 man daily is pretty intense.

 

Do Corelia dailies once a week (elapsed time ~20 minutes) 6 black hole comms. That is 9 weeks for a chest piece. 20minutes x 9 days of dailies = 180 minutes (3 hours). 3 hours of gameplay spread out over 2-3 months for the most expensive piece. Only 20-40% of this time spent playing with another player (1-3 other people tops), this is an MMO remember?

 

Obviously you get the gear WAY faster by raiding, and there is no way to ever finish a set this way, but its a bit ridiculous that its even possible to get the same gear as top end raiders just by doing dailies, even just one slot. This seems harsh, but its true. I can agree with crafted gear, similar to what wow had where the patterns required mats from the raid and the patterns only dropped in that raid. Other than that, no, that is ridiculous. You already get way too many coms from story mode denova from those chests that give 4 coms each, but that is a raid at least.

 

Gear is both a reward and tool. Unique loot reward upon completion of a challenging boss, there shouldn't be another way to obtain said loot period. The tool part comes in for even harder bosses, you need gear from boss A to help defeat boss B, makes sense... You just shouldn't get gear any other way or for any other reason. This is a Massively Multiplayer Online, Allowing players to get the best gear without having to do much MULTIPLAYER content is silly.

Yeah, that 4 man daily is pretty intense.

 

Do Corelia dailies once a week (elapsed time ~20 minutes) 6 black hole comms. That is 9 weeks for a chest piece. 20minutes x 9 days of dailies = 180 minutes (3 hours). 3 hours of gameplay spread out over 2-3 months for the most expensive piece. Only 20-40% of this time spent playing with another player (1-3 other people tops), this is an MMO remember?

 

Obviously you get the gear WAY faster by raiding, and there is no way to ever finish a set this way, but its a bit ridiculous that its even possible to get the same gear as top end raiders just by doing dailies, even just one slot. This seems harsh, but its true. I can agree with crafted gear, similar to what wow had where the patterns required mats from the raid and the patterns only dropped in that raid. Other than that, no, that is ridiculous. You already get way too many coms from story mode denova from those chests that give 4 coms each, but that is a raid at least.

 

Gear is both a reward and tool. Unique loot reward upon completion of a challenging boss, there shouldn't be another way to obtain said loot period. The tool part comes in for even harder bosses, you need gear from boss A to help defeat boss B, makes sense... You just shouldn't get gear any other way or for any other reason. This is a Massively Multiplayer Online, Allowing players to get the best gear without having to do much MULTIPLAYER content is silly.

 

So you are complaining that someone could wait 9 weeks to get a single piece of gear? It would take nearly a year at that pace to get all the pieces. Yeah, heaven forbid those people who prefer to play solo have any real shot at nice gear. Why does it matter what someone who plays solo gets for gear anyway? If you feel like that is the route you should take because it is easier then do it yourself. Obviously, you feel raiding is fun so you get your gear 20 times faster. What is the problem? By the time the solo person gets their gear the next patch and tier would be out anyway.

I was full rakata pre 1.2, you didn't hear me whining about people getting rakata ear/implants with a week or dailies, WHY would you care if a set that has no bonus, takes a month to get one piece, and is boring is obtainable solo?

 

 

Seriously guys, gear was never a sign of how good someone was to begin with. We sold rakata to PUGs who didn't do a thing. But hey, it's no fun if you can't talk crap about all the baddies who can't get top tier, right? lol

 

 

I honestly wouldn't care if they made it a week to get one piece, as long as they add titles or something my guild can snag. I never understood why some people thought people who solo didn't deserve to be the heroes of their story too.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Valfodr

I never understood why some people thought people who solo didn't deserve to be the heroes of their story too.

 

I think there's a genre for that sort of thing... OH right! SINGLE PLAYER RPG...it's perfect! You can do all the content by your self, some of it is even challenging, and you get dat awesome loot for doing it! Bioware makes lots of those kinds of games too, Dragon Age Origins would be my favorite, big E-dragon at the end of that one.

 

As for MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAMES, lets leave all the best loot in the 8, 10, 15, 16, 20, 25, 40, 80, what ever content...

LOL i should check dates more careful before i respond to a thread. Edited February 3, 2014 by Mallorik