rage juggers beats both in a duel due to huge amounts of burst.

Rage might have a chance at beating vigi. Not even slightly beating immortal, with his assumption of skilled players.

Rage might have a chance at beating vigi. Not even slightly beating immortal, with his assumption of skilled players.

Disagree completely with all due respect. The reason why a vengeance jugger can't really beat an immortal jugg is due to the fact that it can't pump out enough damage in a short enough amount of time. It is more of a DOT spec with some burst potential. I can easily hit 50k furious strikes on an immortal juggernaut as long as I keep up my sunder armors. Add in the fact I also have hard hitting force abilities such as raging burst, I have more options to deal damage, and a more efficient way to deal it out. Also add in the fact I still have heavy armor and they don't have sunder armor.

Disagree completely with all due respect. The reason why a vengeance jugger can't really beat an immortal jugg is due to the fact that it can't pump out enough damage in a short enough amount of time. It is more of a DOT spec with some burst potential. I can easily hit 50k furious strikes on an immortal juggernaut as long as I keep up my sunder armors. Add in the fact I also have hard hitting force abilities such as raging burst, I have more options to deal damage, and a more efficient way to deal it out. Also add in the fact I still have heavy armor and they don't have sunder armor.

You're not considering the survivability factor a tank has compared to a dps. So you have higher burst. Fine. That tank has more ways of mitigating burst or any other kind of damage, both actively (i.e. warding call) and passively.

Besides everything a debating tanks dueling dps is still as stupid as it was with vigi.

You're not considering the survivability factor a tank has compared to a dps. So you have higher burst. Fine. That tank has more ways of mitigating burst or any other kind of damage, both actively (i.e. warding call) and passively.

 

Besides everything a debating tanks dueling dps is still as stupid as it was with vigi.

Again, you're forgetting that rage was essentially designed for pvp in mind. It has 15 percent passive armor penetration via the talent that improves your shi-cho form. Add on another 20 percent armor reduction via sunder armor, 3 percent damage increase with shi-cho, and it adds up. It negates any passive increase in defense the tank gains. Sure the tank has invincible, but they don't have the damage to actually make the fight usually during that time. The rage jugger has heavy armor as well so they can tank the damage that's coming there way for a time.

Again, you're forgetting that rage was essentially designed for pvp in mind. It has 15 percent passive armor penetration via the talent that improves your shi-cho form. Add on another 20 percent armor reduction via sunder armor, 3 percent damage increase with shi-cho, and it adds up. It negates any passive increase in defense the tank gains. Sure the tank has invincible, but they don't have the damage to actually make the fight usually during that time. The rage jugger has heavy armor as well so they can tank the damage that's coming there way for a time.

Go play solo ranked and come back with rage can tank incoming damage for a long time. Both jugg dps specs are at the bottom explicitly because they suck at taking damage in spite of heavy armor.

And again, debating who wins a duel with a tank is so stupid I can't believe I allowed myself to be drawn into it. Would you duel a healer?

Go play solo ranked and come back with rage can tank incoming damage for a long time. Both jugg dps specs are at the bottom explicitly because they suck at taking damage in spite of heavy armor.

 

And again, debating who wins a duel with a tank is so stupid I can't believe I allowed myself to be drawn into it. Would you duel a healer?

I'm giving you a logical argument based on what the specs can do to prove my point. If you disagree then we can agree to disagree. No need to get spicy.

I'm using the specs to prove a point too, I mentioned that tanks had an extra DCD in addition to having far superior passive DR (I don't happen to be by my comp at the moment, so I can't go get numbers), the point in ranked was to merely describe how pathetic dps juggs are at taking damage compared to a tank. The bitter and sarcastic tone I'm using does not negate that point.

i.e. if dps juggies are so good defensively, why are they so pathetic at solo ranked (which really means, really pathetic at taking damage).

Further, any argument involving a 1v1 dps vs a tank or healer is simply a dumb argument to the point where i can't believe i have allowed myself to get involved in it.

Again, you're forgetting that rage was essentially designed for pvp in mind. It has 15 percent passive armor penetration via the talent that improves your shi-cho form. Add on another 20 percent armor reduction via sunder armor, 3 percent damage increase with shi-cho, and it adds up. It negates any passive increase in defense the tank gains. Sure the tank has invincible, but they don't have the damage to actually make the fight usually during that time. The rage jugger has heavy armor as well so they can tank the damage that's coming there way for a time.

Kendra this entire post was ( sarcastic ) bait lmao. You know skanks have the damage to put away DPS specs. You aren't beating an Immortal Jugg player with a modicum of skill on Rage Jugg. A good Rage player can beat Vengeance if they play around saber reflect, CC Veng during enraged defense, and the Veng player fails to abuse their CC immunity to prevent this from happening.

So long as you can "see" the reflect on Rage the fight is yours to win. You always get ED from Veng dot ticks on you, and you can always deny Veng ED since you don't have any long lasting dots on Rage ( or Immortal ). Hell even if you don't deny the ED most Veng players will attempt to attack through saber reflect, which still gives Rage the edge.

I'm using the specs to prove a point too, I mentioned that tanks had an extra DCD in addition to having far superior passive DR (I don't happen to be by my comp at the moment, so I can't go get numbers), the point in ranked was to merely describe how pathetic dps juggs are at taking damage compared to a tank. The bitter and sarcastic tone I'm using does not negate that point.

 

i.e. if dps juggies are so good defensively, why are they so pathetic at solo ranked (which really means, really pathetic at taking damage).

 

Further, any argument involving a 1v1 dps vs a tank or healer is simply a dumb argument to the point where i can't believe i have allowed myself to get involved in it.

But again, that passive DR is negated via sunder armor and the 15 percent armor penetration talent. That's what I think you're missing.

And yes Dps jugg survivability is not that good, I agree.

Yeah if you think rage beats immortal in a duel with equal skill, I don't know what to tell you. You're just not that smart.

Well I suppose we can agree to disagree then.