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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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I accept that other servers and factions may have better experiences, but I'm not really interested in re-rolling on another server or faction.

 

Then you have few options:

- Unsub

- Tough it out until an acceptable matchmaker is implemented

- "Make your own premade"

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Then you have few options:

- Unsub

- Tough it out until an acceptable matchmaker is implemented

- "Make your own premade"

 

unfort for BW this is whats happening. In the end we will all get our wishes It will be premade vs premade one way or the other....since the solo ppl will be gone and the premades will be the only ones queing.

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If only that were the case, I'd really have no complaint. But my experience on pub-side Harbinger is something close to 1 in 50 getting a premade on my side vs being in a complete (or nearly complete) pug group against at least 1 premade. It is rare for me to see even 3 people from the same guild in the solo queue during prime time.

 

I accept that other servers and factions may have better experiences, but I'm not really interested in re-rolling on another server or faction.

 

Coming from the Harbinger, I cannot see how this is the case. I know that I am consistently in a premade, because It is how I have fun with the game. I love my guildies, and my roommate is a competitive pvper with me. We always group. Most guilds group. Unranked isnt fun if you aren't grouping. And trust me, we aren't talking about strat in mumble. Pretty much the furthest thing from our minds. But, back to your point... The Harbinger is pretty well faction balanced, and about half our games we are running into premades of deadweight and covenant and goof troop. Which I find fantastic, I find it more fun. I just don't see how the harbinger could be faction imbalanced, I think we are fairly equal.

 

Edit: I think that you most likely notice more getting roflstomped by premades then you do having a premade to help you.

Edited by DeepFreese
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If only that were the case, I'd really have no complaint. But my experience on pub-side Harbinger is something close to 1 in 50 getting a premade on my side vs being in a complete (or nearly complete) pug group against at least 1 premade. It is rare for me to see even 3 people from the same guild in the solo queue during prime time.

 

I accept that other servers and factions may have better experiences, but I'm not really interested in re-rolling on another server or faction.

 

The Harbinger problem isn't a premade problem its a pub pug problem. I'm part of what is probably the best RWZ team on the server and our premades can't carry the pub Pugs to victory more than 40%? (less at prime time) of the time anymore. It isn't because we are constantly ending up against double imp premades, its because the imp pugs are significantly better than ours. We can run into an imp premade that we would beat 6-0 in rateds and end up losing 2-1 because our pugs are just that bad.

 

I do wonder how much of this thread is from pub posters on Harbinger since we are the largest server. Oh well. The answer is step up your game. 4 can't win a warzone pub side on Harbinger anymore, 5 still can, be that 5th and we'll love you for it.

Edited by Asunasan
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Coming from the Harbinger, I cannot see how this is the case. I know that I am consistently in a premade, because It is how I have fun with the game. I love my guildies, and my roommate is a competitive pvper with me. We always group. Most guilds group. Unranked isnt fun if you aren't grouping. And trust me, we aren't talking about strat in mumble. Pretty much the furthest thing from our minds. But, back to your point... The Harbinger is pretty well faction balanced, and about half our games we are running into premades of deadweight and covenant and goof troop. Which I find fantastic, I find it more fun. I just don't see how the harbinger could be faction imbalanced, I think we are fairly equal.

 

Edit: I think that you most likely notice more getting roflstomped by premades then you do having a premade to help you.

 

Creus I have to respectfully disagree. I think you probably aren't noticing that the imp win ratio has climbed so high because you get quite a few imp v imp matches, at least I know I do when I play my PT. During prime time the pubs can hardly win a match. I don't necessarily think anything needs to be done about it from a BW standpoint, but the pub pugs do need to step up their game (yes i'm aware the imps have some terrible pugs to, but its an epidemic for the pubs).

Edited by Asunasan
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About half our games we are running into premades of deadweight and covenant and goof troop. Which I find fantastic, I find it more fun. I just don't see how the harbinger could be faction imbalanced, I think we are fairly equal.

 

Edit: I think that you most likely notice more getting roflstomped by premades then you do having a premade to help you.

 

It was someone else that said Harbinger is likely faction imbalanced. I don't really know...but I doubt the imbalance is very severe overall, probably less than 5%. I expect PvP is a bit more unbalanced (in the imp favor), but not horrifically so, since pub v pub matches can still happen at 50.

 

And yeah, those Republic PvP guilds have some great groups, but I honestly rarely see them when solo queuing. Or if I do, it is 1 or 2 people from them. But I frequently see 4-6 players from Full Resolve, Aliens, and/or Yes on the imp side.

 

What I really suspect is a quirk in the matchmaking system as others have indicated in this thread, in that it somehow prefers to match premades against pugs. I don't have enough lvl 50 PvP experience when grouped with my guildies to say for certain, but on those rare nights, it sure seems like we were more likely to run into another premade on our side.

 

Anyway, it isn't just a "oh we lost to a premade" that makes me take notice. At the start of every match, I am looking at classes and stances to find a tank to pair with, or count healers, and I notice the lack of premades at that point. And I don't automatically exclaim "premade" just because I see 2 or 3 reds from one of those guilds, or because we've lost. But when I see a whole group of Full Resolve or Aliens at a heavily contested node, well, yeah, I assume they are a premade and in voice chat.

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I do wonder how much of this thread is from pub posters on Harbinger since we are the largest server. Oh well. The answer is step up your game. 4 can't win a warzone pub side on Harbinger anymore, 5 still can, be that 5th and we'll love you for it.

 

I will happily admit to my toons being below-average geared (~950 exp right now) and skilled, at least compared to your group. But I am improving on both. Kiting is still my weakness, especially on my slow-*** commando. My sage is a bit better, but still way too SQUISHY if I can't break LoS. Fortunately 1.6 should help me close the gear gap...and well, practice practice practice.

 

But I will agree with you about the general pub pug population. At the risk of going into off-topic rant mode, I've been PvPing for less than a month, and even I know:

 

- If you are defending, fight at the node/door, and don't take your eyes off it.

- If you are attacking a node, try to get the defenders to spread out and get out of position.

- Call out incomings before they attack. Use AoEs and stealth detections to make stealthers work for it!

- Use your knockbacks to clear the end zone and ramps in huttball. But don't hang out in these areas unless you want to help the red leaping monkeys score, or are a gunslinger. Try to control the middle. Or get in position for a forward pass. Or at the very least, group up on the ball carrier to protect/heal them.

- Focus the healers first, one at a time, stun/CC the rest.

EDIT, one more thing:

- If there are 6 greens and 2 reds at your defended node, 2-3 need to start moving to your other node right away, as it is about to come under heavy attack.

 

And for god sakes, stop deathmatching all over the damn place!

Edited by NoFishing
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I will happily admit to my toons being below-average geared (~950 exp right now) and skilled, at least compared to your group. But I am improving on both. Kiting is still my weakness, especially on my slow-*** commando. My sage is a bit better, but still way too SQUISHY if I can't break LoS. Fortunately 1.6 should help me close the gear gap...and well, practice practice practice.

 

But I will agree with you about the general pub pug population. At the risk of going into off-topic rant mode, I've been PvPing for less than a month, and even I know:

 

- If you are defending, fight at the node/door, and don't take your eyes off it.

- If you are attacking a node, try to get the defenders to spread out and get out of position.

- Call out incomings before they attack. Use AoEs and stealth detections to make stealthers work for it!

- Use your knockbacks to clear the end zone and ramps in huttball. But don't hang out in these areas unless you want to help the red leaping monkeys score, or are a gunslinger. Try to control the middle. Or get in position for a forward pass. Or at the very least, group up on the ball carrier to protect/heal them.

- Focus the healers first, one at a time, stun/CC the rest.

 

And for god sakes, stop deathmatching all over the damn place!

 

Especially when they can't even win those lol.

 

Anyway good to hear. As for the commando it sounds like you're already heals which is as much as can be asked since both dps trees are terrible. Heal mandos can end up being very solid though even if not optimal. As for the sage always know where your line of sight is. No reason to be more than 2-3 steps from it unless your team is whipping the other and you are just going in for a finisher. If its heals make sure you're bubble stun spec. Anyway it sounds like you aren't part of the problem (or at least won't be once you gear up a bit more) but keep up the early call outs and good objective play, eventually the problem will correct itself.

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Tried to do my daily. Run into my favorite (and by that I mean the one that I hate the most because they always try to field 2 4man teams in the same warzone) premade.

 

Civil War: Went left to cap our node with someone. Got jumped by 2 rage Juggs. 7.1k hit. 7.4k hit. Dead. Node lost. 30 seconds in the game they capped all 3 nodes. OMG L2P, you suck! Well what can you do on a character with 966 exp and rank 7 valor against 6 (!!!) Elite Warlords with rank 100 and better gear than God himself? Then people start quitting, match cannot backfill in time, ends prematurely with the enemy team holding all three nodes.

 

But hey, I got a medal!

 

Hutball: Waited 5 minutes just for good measure before queuing. No luck. Same ******* premade same ******** people. Let's see what they have: hybrid tankasins force speeding and force shrouding through the fire, sorcs pulling them up and down, juggs interceding left and right. 0-6 before you can blink. Quick and painful.

 

But hey, I got 2(!) medals this time!

 

Civil War: First one except people left when the enemy team started doing emotes to announce their names. Even before the match started people left, which resulted in a domino effect and warzone couldn't backfill in time. Lost again with all 3 nodes capped by the enemy.

 

I took solace in the fact that even in that short time I managed to toss an 5k heal on myself for a medal.

 

Voidstar: Different premade but same caliber. 4 Elite Warlords (I was almost rank 9 by this point). Attacked first and needless to say we were pretty much spawn point farmed, couldn't even get near the doors. About 2 minutes in the game they decided it's so much fun to add insult to injury and they started popping party bombs, party jawas, party instigators, laughing, dancing and typing "omg you suck so much" "omg I'm killing you in 2 general cooldowns" "you have no chance to survive make your time" etc. in /say You get the picture.

 

Their turn, there's a bomb on the door in less than 10 seconds, match ends. But because the first turn was so agonizingly slow, I somehow managed to get 4 damage related medals.

 

This by far the most horrible PvP experience I've had in a long time. Got 8 medals in four matches. At this rate, I'll celebrate the 2020 Olympics with my own Elite War Hero set. Neither can I see my weekly ever getting done.

 

Win or lose, I don't care as long as PvP is balanced and fun. But it's not fun anymore, it's so imbalanced and frustrating that I wanted to bash my head against wall, throw my keyboard out the window or just simply kick something really hard. Had to smoke a few cigarettes to calm down enough to be able to type this post.

 

Premades vs PuGs is out of control, it is ruining all the fun in PvP and you don't just have to put up with crushing defeats but have to also deal with the insults they do (/dance /laugh) and how they berate and belittle you in /say.

Say what you want but 6 Elite Warlords in WH/EWH gear don't have the right to be in the same warzone as 6 Recruit geared pugs. Rank 7 vs Rank 100, what a joke. Except it's not funny.

 

And I bet I'll get the usual L2P, make your own premade and whatnot ********, but how can you learn to play anything when you're dead before you get to do anything. How can you get better gear when you lose so quickly that you barely get comms. Don't expect the F2P to ever set foot in PvP again after such an experience.

 

Pretty soon there won't be PuGs vs Premades because all PuGs will just quit. And the premades will just move on to another MMO leaving SWTOR PvP dead.

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lol wow 169 pages. Get to 1,000 and maybe bioware will do something. As for fighting against premades with only pugs, eh, it can suck, but not much you can do about it. Win some, lose some, if you can't handle losses, don't pvp. While being on a team with a premade usually means you're likely to win, it's not a certainty. I've been on teams with 3-4man premades with cookies/aliens/goof troop/covenant/etc. and thought, "cool, should be able to get my daily done in 2 matches." then ended up losing to random pugs, it's rare, of course, but it does happen from time to time. I mean, it's obviously an advantage that premades in voice chat have over random pugs, and while some may view that as unfair, doesn't really matter, because the developers have made clear they have no intention of getting rid of non-ranked 4man groups. lol, just be happy that for whatever reason, they refuse to allow 8man premades to group for non-ranked.

 

As for the most recent posts about the harbinger being imp biased in terms of wins, ever since the transfers, and then free to play on top of that, things have been pretty out of whack in terms of consistency. Last week, I got almost only wins on imp, like every day, only did the 2 matches for the daily, but still 2/2 wins close to every day. This week, since the reset on tuesday, played about 12 matches, 10 losses and 2 wins. I switch over to pub this morning, pick up the weekly and daily, 7 straight wins in a row. In those 10 imp losses, was on premades with Aliens, Yes, etc. but still lost. In those 7 wins, was mostly premades with covenant, but also a couple of complete pub pugs vs at least 1 imp premade (think it was ascendancy), but still won.

 

I think the main thing about pvp matches is that you should stay in the match, because it can always get turned around at the last minute, especially in stupid games like huttball, which is fun if you're a leaper, but pretty much sucks otherwise. Recently I've been in a ton of matches where within a few seconds, suddenly like more than half the team drops, then we get the warzone abortion message. One match was in the denova map, capped west, lost mid in a few seconds, then 6 people immediately dropped, then 6 more people joined, I just saw that and thought "what the hell?" I didn't check to see if it was a premade or not, so I can't say for sure, but losing 6 people a few seconds into a match? come on. Especially that map, where you can cap 1 node with 2% bunker health left, hold it, then win the match, can't even count the times that's happened.

 

So yeah, fighting against premades can suck, but it's not a for sure loss....unless you leave the match, then there's a 100% chance you won't win it.

 

PVP is a crapshoot, it's people vs other people, it's not going to be like running HM BT, which is exactly the same every single time you run it (especially if you run with guildies), easy, and predictable. There's always going to be a variation in pvp matches, even when you're with the same group of people in a pug or on a premade. For the people who think that eliminating premades will grant them an automatic win button for pvp, you're sorely mistaken. If you're a good player who knows their class well, even if you lose hard and get 3capped in a match, you should still be able to score well based on your role (top dmg/heals/protection/etc.) and get a decent amount of medals. For some reason, when people talk about premades ruining pvp, it seems as though they're talking about getting into a match, getting 3capped within 10 seconds, then getting 0 heals as a healer, 0 dmg as a dps, 0 protection as a tank, 0 medals, and getting completely facerolled. I've never been on a match like that (though, was in 1 ranked match once when the other team got 0 kills, that was sorta funny, but to be fair, they did get a lot of heals/protection/etc. plus, it was huttball, so kills don't matter anyway), more often than not, it's getting beat by a premade, then at the end it's like, 'well, we lost, but I got 600k heals. That's something.' or 'well, we lost, but I got 600k dmg.' that alone should net you the 8+ medals at least.

 

There's never going to be an automatic win for every match, and if that's what you want, you should probably stick to pve raiding with only your overgeared guildies that have cleared the exact same content 50 times, because fighting against predictable ai controlled bosses that usually have 1 strategy is as close to an automatic win as you're going to get.

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Tried to do my daily. Run into my favorite (and by that I mean the one that I hate the most because they always try to field 2 4man teams in the same warzone) premade.

 

Quote snipped because it's long.

 

What I've said a million times in this thread and what you are describing in this thread are the same thing. Nothing in your post was related to the fact that they are a premade group. EVERYTHING you described is gear and skill based. At no point did you describe a point where their VOIP and superior coordination was overwhelming. At no point did you describe their ability to select a target and simultaneously focus that one person down.

 

If you met this team and it wasn't a premade group, would the outcome have been any different? Just because everyone is queuing solo doesn't mean that there will not be imbalances that occur.

 

The only solution that fixes everything in your post is a matchmaking system. It doesn't matter if the other people are grouped, geared, experienced, or whatever as long as the overall cumulative ability is equal. I'm happy to play in recruit gear against full war heroes if their skill and knowledge level are far below mine. The fight would probably be fairly equal.

 

The most important take away from what I am posting:

Eliminating premades from the queue only takes advantages away from an individual, it does not take them away altogether.

 

So one guild can't always ensure they have 4 war heroes on their team, but it doesn't change the fact that it will still happen. I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you that the exact situation you described would continue happening in solo queues, there would just be no way for anyone to mitigate their chances of it happening to them. True matchmaking is the only solution that will actually prevent the problem, not a divided queue.

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I will happily admit to my toons being below-average geared (~950 exp right now) and skilled, at least compared to your group. But I am improving on both. Kiting is still my weakness, especially on my slow-*** commando. My sage is a bit better, but still way too SQUISHY if I can't break LoS. Fortunately 1.6 should help me close the gear gap...and well, practice practice practice.

 

But I will agree with you about the general pub pug population. At the risk of going into off-topic rant mode, I've been PvPing for less than a month, and even I know:

 

- If you are defending, fight at the node/door, and don't take your eyes off it.

- If you are attacking a node, try to get the defenders to spread out and get out of position.

- Call out incomings before they attack. Use AoEs and stealth detections to make stealthers work for it!

- Use your knockbacks to clear the end zone and ramps in huttball. But don't hang out in these areas unless you want to help the red leaping monkeys score, or are a gunslinger. Try to control the middle. Or get in position for a forward pass. Or at the very least, group up on the ball carrier to protect/heal them.

- Focus the healers first, one at a time, stun/CC the rest.

EDIT, one more thing:

- If there are 6 greens and 2 reds at your defended node, 2-3 need to start moving to your other node right away, as it is about to come under heavy attack.

 

And for god sakes, stop deathmatching all over the damn place!

 

lol, a tip for all the gunslingers/snipers out there, don Ever stand on the edge in huttball, I have stunned/leaped/scored in this fashion so many times, it's hilarious, but probably made those gunslinger/snipers regret sitting on the edge.

 

rest of those tips are solid. Also, another tip for the sorcs/sages out there who complain about being too squishy in pvp: don't drop an aoe heal while defending a node and consume yourself down to 10% health to max your healing score, because all it takes is 1 well placed stealth attack from a sin or op to 1-shot you.

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@Jadescythe

 

If I implied that somehow I'm not okay with a reasonable matchmaking system, then I apologize, it wasn't my intention. I'm okay with any system that prevents extremely one-sided matches from happening, especially multiple times in a row. Like I said I have no issue with losing. I've lost matches before where I ended up doing decent damage and heals getting 6-7-8 medals. Win or lose, what's most important for me is that it should be a fun/entertaining/enjoyable experience. I know you can't enjoy every warzone and there are some pretty frustrating ones every once in a while. I'm okay with that, too. Nothing is perfect.

 

But warzone after warzone after warzone like that sucks all the fun out of PvP and it makes for a very negative impression. Especially for F2P who only get access to a limited amount of warzones.

 

Also the reason why I didn't mention superior coordination was because the enemy teams did not need any coordination, when they could kill people in a few seconds. What is there for them to coordinate really in a situation, where they have enough time and hp to fiddle with their party items.

 

So, yes I'd appreciate anything that doesn't put new characters into such a traumatizing experience. i'm happy that Bioware hopes that one day a better matchmaking system will oome but I'm concerned that it might come too late to save many potential players.

Edited by CommanderKeeva
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If you met this team and it wasn't a premade group, would the outcome have been any different? Just because everyone is queuing solo doesn't mean that there will not be imbalances that occur.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong based on quantitative evidence. In theory, sure, an equivalently geared and skilled group could have the same performance even if they have never met before. But it doesn't happen that way...ever. Not in gaming, and not in life. If you don't understand that a group that plays frequently with each other, and knows each other's patterns and strengths, is going to perform better than an equivalent group of random players, I don't know what to say.

 

Even in PvE, where nothing changes from one run to the next, PuGs underperform guild groups for reasons that have nothing to do with gear or skill.

 

That said, I agree that neither wins nor losses are pre-determined in PvP. And eliminating premades from regular PvP, or isolating them into their own queue, are not desirable outcomes.

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Tried to do my daily. Run into my favorite (and by that I mean the one that I hate the most because they always try to field 2 4man teams in the same warzone) premade.

 

*edited for space.

 

Honestly, if you don't have one already, roll an alt on the opposite faction. If it's one specific premade on a particular faction that's facerolling everyone and throwing jawa dance parties, then get an alt to 50 and when they're on, just switch sides. As the old adage goes, "if you can't beat them, join them." You'll be a lot less bothered by particular guilds once you fight along side them and can see how they operate, but that can't happen if you only have 1 50 on 1 faction (if you do only have 1, I don't know if you already have alts on both factions). As others have mentioned in this thread and others, time of day will usually determine which faction is dominating, thus, if you're consitently getting losses, either take the 4 losses for the daily and switch, or just switch after the 1 loss. That's probably the simplest solution. Though, on my pub side guild, there are people who refuse to EVER make imp toons, for whatever personal reasons and have specifically said so in chat, so for people like that, not much they can do if the imps are dominating pvp.

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@Jadescythe

 

If I implied that somehow I'm not okay with a reasonable matchmaking system, then I apologize, it wasn't my intention. I'm okay with any system that prevents extremely one-sided matches from happening, especially multiple times in a row. Like I said I have no issue with losing. I've lost matches before where I ended up doing decent damage and heals getting 6-7-8 medals. Win or lose, what's most important for me is that it should be a fun/entertaining/enjoyable experience. I know you can't enjoy every warzone and there are some pretty frustrating ones every once in a while. I'm okay with that, too. Nothing is perfect.

 

Other than the true PUG stompers out there, I don't think anyone is against more balanced warzones. But in order to keep PVP at the optimal level of fun for everyone, separating groups and soloers is not the answer. There can be balanced games between PUGs and premades and that is my general point. Penalizing those who like to play with other people with longer queues certainly does not increase their enjoyment of the game. Matching different sized groups without PUGs is entirely too difficult and could cause significant delays in pops for all groups.

 

As long as your ability in a warzone (based of a number of factors) is equal to the other teams, then more than likely everyone will enjoy themselves, which I believe is your ultimate goal. The fact that some are grouped and some are not shouldn't matter.

 

I do apologize for the situation you find yourself in, I know it can be tough going against overgeared opponents in recruit gear. Class and role play a big part in how well you will fare, but I wouldn't recommend trying to finish the weekly alone in recruit gear. It's just too much to rely on your team to be up to the task of competing without knowing you will have an even match on the other side. I know you've posted before that you run in groups sometimes, so just take care of your daily when you're forced to queue solo and know that you can pay the other team back when you get to their level down the road.

 

Good luck!

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I'm sorry, but you are wrong based on quantitative evidence. In theory, sure, an equivalently geared and skilled group could have the same performance even if they have never met before. But it doesn't happen that way...ever. Not in gaming, and not in life. If you don't understand that a group that plays frequently with each other, and knows each other's patterns and strengths, is going to perform better than an equivalent group of random players, I don't know what to say.

 

Even in PvE, where nothing changes from one run to the next, PuGs underperform guild groups for reasons that have nothing to do with gear or skill.

 

That said, I agree that neither wins nor losses are pre-determined in PvP. And eliminating premades from regular PvP, or isolating them into their own queue, are not desirable outcomes.

 

I will, respectfully, disagree. I would be in agreement if the other team was a full premade of 8 players, but you are looking at half the team not having anymore coordination than you. There are still incs that have to be called in chat. The other players still have to know who is being CC'd to truly coordinate like you would see in ranked. Focus fire has to be achieved through marking players or simply having knowledge of priority targets.

 

PUG problems in PVE are centered around gear issues and a lack of knowledge of fight mechanics. Any PUG I've ran with that has experience with the fight has not had any problems clearing the content. Any group that is learning has had issues, but has cleared content after experience or else we steamrolled through on the skill and gear of the experienced players.

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Creus I have to respectfully disagree. I think you probably aren't noticing that the imp win ratio has climbed so high because you get quite a few imp v imp matches, at least I know I do when I play my PT. During prime time the pubs can hardly win a match. I don't necessarily think anything needs to be done about it from a BW standpoint, but the pub pugs do need to step up their game (yes i'm aware the imps have some terrible pugs to, but its an epidemic for the pubs).

 

Err its both ways Asuna, main problem on both sides is bads, they never queue up to face each other.

 

If they did it'd be a pointless DM zerg fest with epeen stroking.

 

I remember 1 game where this happened on Void Star because people werent looking to cap the door they were looking to DPS the other bads. This was sorta fun till both sides ended with the highest damage being 200k....... I was a healer and I was too tired to try to cap door because nobody was helping me to cap *********** door.

 

I did about 100k damage as healer with 300k heals, and there was a 4 healers on the other team so their DPS was **** too and their heals was about 200k roughly each. To end it all I think about 10 ppl died but was the dumbest boring gay *** match I ever joined, oh we won because I think we killed more or something by 2.

 

If people think this is fun they should probably whack a dummy....

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Creus I have to respectfully disagree. I think you probably aren't noticing that the imp win ratio has climbed so high because you get quite a few imp v imp matches, at least I know I do when I play my PT. During prime time the pubs can hardly win a match. I don't necessarily think anything needs to be done about it from a BW standpoint, but the pub pugs do need to step up their game (yes i'm aware the imps have some terrible pugs to, but its an epidemic for the pubs).

 

That very well could be true. I do not notice it much, as I always queue with a premade normally full of good players to carry my ***. I know that I do not have trouble winning most warzones with pugs, but I chalk that up to me being in a premade with a bunch of good players. Also, as a healer I am not too focused on the other team we are playing. I don't check names, and I don't see if we are in fact playing another premade or not. All I know is press 2 for bubble stun :p

Edited by DeepFreese
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F2P has destroyed lowbie pvp too. Before F2P you would see some premades and players playing on their alts that were in just slightly above average gear and (just like at the start of this game) they were horrible players and without their optimized aug wh gear they sucked in lowbie pvp. It was one of the things that made lowbie fun when you were on your alts. SWTOR has a very low softcap on skill for all classes so these players pugstomp and think they are good. They then would go into lowbie and suck and state on the forums that it was only because lowbie is horrible.

 

Now, though they have full premades in augmented cartel gear running lowbie for long periods of the day. Add this to the fact that when pugging you have many f2p on your team and lowbie sucks. I can still top the chart easily but the amount of evenly matched teams has fallen greatly and almost every match is a sure win or sure loss from the start. Luckily most of my classes are 50 now and so I don't lowbie much anymore but man the last few days it really has sucked.

 

The gear cap possibilities have always been huge in lowbie and lvl only means anything on a couple classes due to bolster (I've leveled all my classes mostly in pvp and was usually the top from lvl 10 on) but it was never much of an issue until recently. My last couple lowbies I started gearing up some since I noticed that was the trend (they are still under 12.5k hp so not twinks by any means) but about the last week or so it has gotten crazy with either half of my team being 14k+ while the other team was mostly 11ks or vice versa. This does not make for fun pvp.

 

I like 1.6 and think that will help 50 pvp out a lot but with a lot of the pugstompers will have a lot of fun in sub-50pvp now and I really think swtor should do something to the bolster system so that gear means a lot less in lowbie. They should also add an aggressive hp softcap in lowbie.

Edited by DarthRaika
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