I'm fairly new to the game, about 4 weeks now and still within my first 30 day sub period, and I've just discovered that veteran FP's can give gear up to item level 306, which is neat, but apparently the hardest raids available to progression guilds also reward 306 ilvl. Is this a recent change or has it always been like this?

I'm not sure what the benefit or purpose is to harder content if the rewards are effectively the same, it sounds like there are parts of the story that are wrapped up in operations, which is neat, but I feel like there has to be something I'm missing if the hardmode raids give the same ilvl at normal dungeons, can anyone explain?

I'm not sure what the benefit or purpose is to harder content if the rewards are effectively the same, it sounds like there are parts of the story that are wrapped up in operations, which is neat, but I feel like there has to be something I'm missing if the hardmode raids give the same ilvl at normal dungeons, can anyone explain?

Challenging content is fun to complete.

NiM Dxun (the hardest mode of the latest operation (or raid)) does give better gear, even if it's still ilvl 306, but more or less, the point is to do challenging content.

Which is actually a fun way to play games, by the way -- as an end, and not just a means.

Emphasis added.

Challenging content is fun to complete.

 

NiM Dxun (the hardest mode of the latest operation (or raid)) does give better gear, even if it's still ilvl 306, but more or less, the point is to do challenging content.

 

Which is actually a fun way to play games, by the way -- as an end, and not just a means.

The game finally stopped putting players on a treadmill to get gear. Now ppl can choose to do or not do the end game content based on if it is fun for them or not. Ppl can choose to go for best gear or not based on whether they want it or not.

Many MMO players are so much like battered spouses, have Stockholm Syndrome or whatever similie/metaphor (*) one wants to employ; you have complaints now that the game is not abusing them, that it is not forcing the treadmill. Unbelievable.

(*) I expect to see objections to my use of these.

So ultimately the only reward for doing the hardest tier of content compared to the easiest tier of content is the feeling of accomplishment and different stat distributions on the same ilvl of gear? Sounds like this games design/philosophy towards raiding and pve is not what I'm looking for, oh well plenty of content other than just raids to enjoy, haven't even gotten further than chapter 4 interlude yet.

Hardest tier of group content also grants you more Conquest points for your guild and specific achievements and drops from bosses (mounts, decorations) that you will not get from the easy content. They decoupled gear progression from hardcore content (with the exception of the latest operation) which is a good thing for a game that has a lot of casual players that mostly play it like a story driven Solo game and are not interested in group content at all.

So ultimately the only reward for doing the hardest tier of content compared to the easiest tier of content is the feeling of accomplishment and different stat distributions on the same ilvl of gear? Sounds like this games design/philosophy towards raiding and pve is not what I'm looking for, oh well plenty of content other than just raids to enjoy, haven't even gotten further than chapter 4 interlude yet.

It is not just one character game. The eight classes (*) (4 each on Republic and Imperial sides) have completely different stories and significant differences in playstyles (24 playstyles and their mirrors).

(*) As MagikFingerz mentioned.

Challenging content is fun to complete.

Perhaps, but they're not fun to repeat. Certainly not relative to the speed of releasing new raids. At some point the fun part has to be supplemented with the goal part. At least for me, and I daresay I'm not alone in that.

This was a recent change to the game with the release of 6.0. The changes already did start to a degree with 5.0. To me these changes were not a good thing.

Emphasis added.

The game finally stopped putting players on a treadmill to get gear. Now ppl can choose to do or not do the end game content based on if it is fun for them or not. Ppl can choose to go for best gear or not based on whether they want it or not.(*) I expect to see objections to my use of these.

I have to vehemently disagree here as the gear treadmill has gotten much much worse IMO. I was a progression raider (healer) from a year after launch until I stopped playing a couple of weeks prior to 6.0 launching and came back to SWTOR a few weeks ago and this gearing system is atrocious and completely grindy and RNG based which prevents gear planning for guild raid groups. The new gearing system did a few things right like making everything legacy based but I'd kill for a return to 4.0's system or even the post 5.2 system compared to this nightmare of a system where I have literally no control to gear my main let alone alts for raiding without known slot unassembled gear tokens dropping from raid bosses. Also the removal of set bonuses from my old legacy gear and the old set bonuses on the character bound shells being hard capped at level 74 was completely unnecessary.

Unlike pre-6.0 I have no idea when I'll be able to hit 306 to be properly geared let alone min\maxed (I'm currently at 278 gear level starting from 250/252) whereas pre-6.0 we could run a few HM ops to gear a new raid member in rather short order as it was all 100% predictable. A secondary effect of these changes is that it's almost impossible to find group finder raids to include EV\KP that normally dropped in a couple of minutes since there's no gear tokens dropping to incentivize wider community participation. The current system could be vastly improved by removing the RNG aspect..which we all pushed back on during the first year of SWTOR and also when 5.0 dropped resulting in 5.2's player friendly changes.

Unlike pre-6.0 I have no idea when I'll be able to hit 306 to be properly geared let alone min\maxed (I'm currently at 278 gear level starting from 250/252) whereas pre-6.0 we could run a few HM ops to gear a new raid member in rather short order as it was all 100% predictable.

This sentence undermines your argument. Simply by running the story you had a full set of 268, so the idea you started from 250/252 is a bit disingenuous.

If you're still at Ilvl 278 13 months into Onslaught, the onus is on you. If you're having fun, it doesn't really matter but the min/maxing of Ilvl 306 gear is largely inconsequential performance wise by comparison. Many, many people had Ilvl 306 w/in 2 days of the October 2019 release. I took it slowly and didn't spam HS and RR and was Ilvl 306 by second week of November.

To be fair, Amplifiers need work, but if you're at Ilvl 278, which you can get from a couple days of Treasure Hunting (or at least 276)...you simply have been gearing incorrectly, or at least, painfully slowly.

But for you to say the current system is heavily RNG- based is patently, demonstrably false. The one exception would be the (relatively few and mostly meh) new set pieces that only drop from Dxun. But by your own argument, those are rewards for doing the more difficult content.

Gearing has never been easier. That some of the armor set bonuses are uninspiring is a point on which we agree, but that's a separate argument.

Dasty

I have to vehemently disagree here as the gear treadmill has gotten much much worse IMO. I was a progression raider (healer) from a year after launch until I stopped playing a couple of weeks prior to 6.0 launching and came back to SWTOR a few weeks ago ...

I don't doubt your statements or mean to insult you. But you're doing something wrong or don't understand the current gearing. Vulkk, SWTORista, MMOBits and others have articles that clearly explain how the new gearing works. You take a level 70 character through the Onderon, Mek-Sha story and they'll cross level 75 easily and become eligible for 306 gear. You only need to get one character to 306 gear through "vertical gear progression" from 268 to 306.

Welcome back, settle in. You'll like the state of the game. (RNG - Agreed. None of us likes it, everything'd be better without it but BW likes it.)

Hardest tier of group content also grants you more Conquest points for your guild and specific achievements and drops from bosses (mounts, decorations) that you will not get from the easy content. They decoupled gear progression from hardcore content (with the exception of the latest operation) which is a good thing for a game that has a lot of casual players that mostly play it like a story driven Solo game and are not interested in group content at all.

And you can mostly only get certain gear sets and or mats for highest end augments from Dxun master mode.

Of course there is a chance the same gear item may drop else where, but it’s tiny. Where as it’s nearly guaranteed from Dxun.

To the OP. The gear rating isn’t the main thing to strive for in gearing. It’s getting the right gear set that has the correct set bonus and tacticals. Then once you have that gear set, you need to BiS the internals and equip augments. You get more tech frags from hardest content and it’s a shorter route to getting the best gear setup.

I'm fairly new to the game, about 4 weeks now and still within my first 30 day sub period, and I've just discovered that veteran FP's can give gear up to item level 306, which is neat, but apparently the hardest raids available to progression guilds also reward 306 ilvl. Is this a recent change or has it always been like this?

 

I'm not sure what the benefit or purpose is to harder content if the rewards are effectively the same, it sounds like there are parts of the story that are wrapped up in operations, which is neat, but I feel like there has to be something I'm missing if the hardmode raids give the same ilvl at normal dungeons, can anyone explain?

Personally, i enjoy the challenge of doing the hardest PvE content, coming up with strategies for approaching a boss fight and beating it, I am lucky to have done most fights before there was a guide for it so we HAD to figure out a strategy and a tactic for it, I find that pretty fun personally. Having like-minded individuals and generally enjoying group content over solo stuff is of course also a big factor.

it's not everyone's cup of tea and having a good group of friends to play with means a huge deal, but overall i think most ppl doing stuff does it for the challenge mainly and then do it again/content provides replayability value through titles, mounts, cosmetic items and the huge amounts of credits you can gain from carrying ppl through it

I'm not sure what the benefit or purpose is to harder content if the rewards are effectively the same, it sounds like there are parts of the story that are wrapped up in operations, which is neat, but I feel like there has to be something I'm missing if the hardmode raids give the same ilvl at normal dungeons, can anyone explain?

Question - what's the purpose of playing SWTOR?

Answer - fun and enjoyment.

Question - what's the purpose of doing OPs?

Answer - fun and enjoyment.

Question - what's the purpose of playing SWTOR?

Answer - fun and enjoyment.

 

Question - what's the purpose of doing OPs?

Answer - fun and enjoyment.

Best answer ^^

As for the gear grinding. It's like cycling a bike on a really tough gear, at first you seem to be putting in a lot of effort and getting nowhere, but before you know it, you are peddling faster and faster, and getting to where you need to be in no time at all.

I'm not sure what the benefit or purpose is to harder content if the rewards are effectively the same, it sounds like there are parts of the story that are wrapped up in operations, which is neat, but I feel like there has to be something I'm missing if the hardmode raids give the same ilvl at normal dungeons, can anyone explain?

Everyone else has made some decent points, but since this thread is still going, I'll just remark on the following.

Harder difficulty content gives demonstrably better outcomes, so they are not "effectively the same."

For example:

1.) You are far more likely to see a tactical item drop from Battlelord Kreshan in master (hard) mode Hammer Station than you are in hard mode.

2.) You are far more likely to see item drops in the level range of 296-300 from story/solo mode versions of flashpoints than you are from group-based bosses, which is usually 302-306.

3.) You are far more likely to see set bonus shells drop in 16-person than 8-person ops, or Vet Mode ops over Story Mode ops.

4.) You get more gear pieces when your guild gets the conquest goal for a large planet than a small planet.

5.) You get more gear pieces when you win a GSF match or ground pvp warzone than from a loss.

So, while most of the end game awards content at a similar item rating range, the types of gear do vary. That's because gearing isn't just about the path to 306, though that is important. It's also about acquiring the money or materials to augment your gear, acquiring the set boni and tactical items you want for your characters ("Horizontal Progression"), optimizing the amplifiers on them, and optimizing the stat distribution on mods and enhancements.