Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Please do not waste your time brining back expertise. It has nothing to do with pvp.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Please do not waste your time brining back expertise. It has nothing to do with pvp.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
02.10.2019 , 11:15 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
I much rather have 1 gear set that does both kinds of activities then have to grind out 2 different sets of gear for both types. Fix the gap that it takes to get a full set of gear compared to what it was in the past and you will rather have 1 set of gear too, if you disagree with that then your simply arguing for the sake of arguing and bring nothing to any kind of discussion. Expertise has nothing to do with the time it takes to gear, therefore expertise is useless and they should not waste their time brining it back.
PVP gear was easy to get pre 5.0 and this is why most people here think that bringing it back is a must for a well being of PVP...

It might or might not be the case, but if they bringing back PVP gear must still be easy to get. Looking at the game now that is very very unlikely... And having to grind two sets of gear will seriously cripple the remaining player base.

I mean ok, I only PVP, but sometimes I like to do HM ops as well, and being stuck only with PVP because I now have to grind another damn set to be able to PVE would be a very very bad move.

So in that case let the past die please..

Lundorff's Avatar


Lundorff
02.11.2019 , 02:58 AM | #12
You want me to resubscribe for a month, just to tell you how bloody, horrifically wrong you are? Fine I will take the bait.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
I hope their focus is to bridge accessibility to end game gear (atm 258) through PvP activities. That is what pvpers actually want and I am certain that that is a lot easier to do than to change the whole system again.
They would never be able to do this in a manner that would serve both sides. It would need to be a lot faster to have any meaning for PVPers, and it would kill all incentive for PvE progression players. That is not what PVPers want. It is not what we have been asking for.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
Like What is expertise and what does it have to do with pvp anyways? Expertise is just a STAT, just like alacrity, crit, accuracy etc. Expertise only benefited players in pvp situations and did nothing in pve encounters.
This is such a weird sentence. Why are you even talking about a PvP-stat and then comparing it to PvE gameplay. It makes no sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
When they removed expertise so that 1 set of gear can be viable for all content (both pve and pvp) what did that change in regards to pvp? The answer is nothing.
It changed everything. PVP should be about skills and nothing else, period. Forcing a gear grind upon none-progression players is detriment to skill-based PVP. Back in the 3.3 - 4.X era we could be competetive within a few weeks, and often instantly when comms became legacy bound. With the command grind and now, puke, crystal grind, we are starting to see huge discrepancies in gear and it will only become worse. I never got full gear for all classes in 248, and with 258 I will not even bother. Yes there are many other factors to consider, but this was so completely unnecessary and it really shows how out-of-touch the remaining developer is.


Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
Are you less of a pvper because you all of a sudden dont have some kind of stat that affects your type of content (pvp)? If you answer is yes to that, then the only thing you seem to be having is a simple identity crisis, because having expertise on your gear or not, has NOTHING to do with you being a pvper.
Yes I am less when competing in terrible gear vs. someone in much better gear. Yes it absolutely impacts my experience when PVPing.


Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
Being a pvper is all about the enjoyment of PLAYER vs PLAYER combat. If I have crit and you dont have any, does that make me less of a pvper than you? No. So why do some of you feel they should bring back expertise?
We DO NOT CARE about expertise. We care about being on equal footing! The old PvP gear just happens to be the easiest way to ensure that. The BEST way would be to force equal stats based on classes and completely by-pass any and all gear. Removing gear grind from PVP would be fantastic, and if someone still needs incentives they could just have titles, special cosmetic gear and similar trinkets.

Sheesh!

But they clearly insists on gear for PVP, so that is why we want it back the way it was around 4.0 when they made the comms legacy bound. It was epic. You had next to no excuse for not being BiS - especially for ranked. It meant people could dabble and try other professions without being gear-gimped the first 6 months. It meant low -/midbies were alive and vibrant.

I will NEVER understand why this is such a controversial topic. The inconvenience of having 2 sets of gear? Really?

Anyone NOT wanting 4.0 PVP gear back is either:

a) A troll plain an simple.

b) Mostly a PVE progression player that would rather NOT spend a week getting PVP gear, and prefers to shaft over all actual PVPers for their own convenience.

Lets all remember back when EAware had a clue:
Quote:
We think that getting a full set of PvP gear is too much of a grind. This is so much the case that only about 2% of PvP players have a full Dark Reaver set. Having at least Exhumed gear is a barrier to entry to being successful in PvP for the majority of players, so we looked to reduce the time and cost of getting there. We have reduced the entry PvP gear costs by roughly a third, and a full set (not min/maxed) will now cost about 4075 Warzone Commendations. For the Dark Reaver/Ranked set we didn’t reduce the price as much, but Ranked Warzone Comms will no longer be used to buy them; pieces will now be purchased with Warzone Comms and the previous tier gear piece. (Ranked Warzone Comms have been removed from the game, but we’ll touch on that more in the Ranked Reward changes found below.) A full Ranked Gear set will now cost about 16,525 Warzone Comms, much less than the current price of around 29,000 Ranked Comms.
http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-econom...ame-update-3.3

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.11.2019 , 03:25 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Lundorff View Post
You want me to resubscribe for a month, just to tell you how bloody, horrifically wrong you are? Fine I will take the bait.



They would never be able to do this in a manner that would serve both sides. It would need to be a lot faster to have any meaning for PVPers, and it would kill all incentive for PvE progression players. That is not what PVPers want. It is not what we have been asking for.



This is such a weird sentence. Why are you even talking about a PvP-stat and then comparing it to PvE gameplay. It makes no sense.



It changed everything. PVP should be about skills and nothing else, period. Forcing a gear grind upon none-progression players is detriment to skill-based PVP. Back in the 3.3 - 4.X era we could be competetive within a few weeks, and often instantly when comms became legacy bound. With the command grind and now, puke, crystal grind, we are starting to see huge discrepancies in gear and it will only become worse. I never got full gear for all classes in 248, and with 258 I will not even bother. Yes there are many other factors to consider, but this was so completely unnecessary and it really shows how out-of-touch the remaining developer is.




Yes I am less when competing in terrible gear vs. someone in much better gear. Yes it absolutely impacts my experience when PVPing.




We DO NOT CARE about expertise. We care about being on equal footing! The old PvP gear just happens to be the easiest way to ensure that. The BEST way would be to force equal stats based on classes and completely by-pass any and all gear. Removing gear grind from PVP would be fantastic, and if someone still needs incentives they could just have titles, special cosmetic gear and similar trinkets.

Sheesh!

But they clearly insists on gear for PVP, so that is why we want it back the way it was around 4.0 when they made the comms legacy bound. It was epic. You had next to no excuse for not being BiS - especially for ranked. It meant people could dabble and try other professions without being gear-gimped the first 6 months. It meant low -/midbies were alive and vibrant.

I will NEVER understand why this is such a controversial topic. The inconvenience of having 2 sets of gear? Really?

Anyone NOT wanting 4.0 PVP gear back is either:

a) A troll plain an simple.

b) Mostly a PVE progression player that would rather NOT spend a week getting PVP gear, and prefers to shaft over all actual PVPers for their own convenience.

Lets all remember back when EAware had a clue:


http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-econom...ame-update-3.3
I wish I could up vote this post.

Especially the last quote about BioWare. I’ve actually been looking for that post this week to show just how ridiculously backwards their current gearing is and how they havent learnt from past mistakes or successes.

You might be interested in this thread I’ve created
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=960494

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
02.11.2019 , 04:23 AM | #14
IIRC 2 types of gear set was used in the early days to keep players subbed longer as they acquired the sets if they wanted to do PvP and PVE content. - so if you look at it cynically it was just a cash grab in a sub-only model.

I am not convinced either way. I don't want huge amounts of dev time re-inventing something they discarded some time ago.

I would prefer that they made another WZ or customisable match-maker or somehow re-examined the classes and re-jigged the old WZs.

It would seem that most people agree that gear grind is too long and arduous and that doing PVE for PVP gear or vice versa is not everyone's cup of tea.

It would also be better to use bolster to BiS and to make sure it worked properly. - I appreciate that some people like the progression, but on the other hand long grinds aren't progression, they're just work.

I've always advocated giving a small buff based off valor for PVP, it would help newcomers level mid-level valor players and reward high or 100 ranks valor players.

TLDR: more content > tinkering with gear again.
-Storm Cutter.
Like my comment? Refer me and also give a homeless Bantha a new start in life. Just click here.
Cool lightsabre art: ****.**================

LinkinPein's Avatar


LinkinPein
02.11.2019 , 05:19 AM | #15
There was nothing wrong with the old Warzone Commendations. Oh damn, even writing that makes me feel nostalgic.

Expertise needs to return; the current gearing system is unacceptable. It clearly forces true PvPers to either not care about it (which is what most are doing), or grind the stupid dailies and the boring PvE stuff.

Gearing for PvP should be fast, simple, and through the very means for which you are gearing. You queue for PvP, you get your Warzone Commendations, you then get a piece of best in slot (which is only best in slot for PvP). Period.

Restore Unranked and Ranked gear tiers, return expertise.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.11.2019 , 09:23 AM | #16
Having just come back after a 2 or more years (Legion was fun, BFA not so much), I can safely say I won't be purchasing more time after this 2-month thing expires.

I didn't actually like the expertise system. Expertise WAS an archaic method of balancing gear. But the replacement system is more asinine: if I want to gear up now, I can either grind through PVE content (Ossus atm), grind through operations to trade-up my gear, or go the LONG route and get all the resources I need for the same gear and -- wait for it -- pvp. Am I missing something crucial here? Is just PVPing really the LONG route for getting gear to PVP in? lol

I guess it was foolish to assume they'd just give everyone even stats across the board (according to role/class) and let you buy enhancement/mods with different balances for command comms.

ah well. I can catch up on the story. (2 years of dev work in 5 days of gaming! lul)
Krack

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.11.2019 , 09:28 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Lundorff View Post
Forcing a gear grind upon none-progression players is detriment to skill-based PVP. Back in the 3.3 - 4.X era we could be competetive within a few weeks, and often instantly when comms became legacy bound. With the command grind and now, puke, crystal grind, we are starting to see huge discrepancies in gear and it will only become worse. I never got full gear for all classes in 248, and with 258 I will not even bother. Yes there are many other factors to consider, but this was so completely unnecessary and it really shows how out-of-touch the remaining developer is.
^this is why I will not be purchasing more time. I could care less about the existence of expertise. I'll be damned if I'm going to be dragged through pve for a month or more, and I fully understand hardmode ops raiders being offended if I can get their gear in a couple weeks through WZs.
Krack

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.11.2019 , 10:20 AM | #18
The easiest thing for BW to do is make bolster in WZs push people all to the same maxed stat line. 258, 260, whatever. No new gear grind needed, no bringing expertise back, just make bolster do the work.

This wouldn't upset the gear grind that PVE and OPs players love so much with 5.10.

5.10 grind-lovers can enjoy their grind, and PVPers would be able to enter WZs with no excuse or complaint that their gears are inferior due to them not wanting to do the 5.10 gear grind while other player types do.

Seriously. Why go through the trouble of sorting statistics with expertise, and trying to fit that back into the WZ with bolster etc., all just to give PVPers a new grind, albeit much less than the 5.10 PVE Ops grind-lovers?

Makes no sense to me but what do I know. This way would be the cheapest too. Seeing they seem to lack resources, this would make it cheap and the chance of bugs far less likely than if they go making a new set of expertise gears for PVPers to grind for.

PVPers don't need a grind. If BW wants to add incentives for PVPers, then make vendors that sell toys, appearance items, things that have no impact on PVP or the stats. Make WZs reward the player with WZ comms that can be used to buy special PVP only items if they want to do something to get people in the WZs.
The Revival of SWTOR: Petition for More Funding and Resources
(Click link Below For More Information)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=959696

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
02.11.2019 , 11:01 AM | #19
I would rather not have expertise back. But I don't know that there is a better solution to PvP gearing vs PvE gearing.

SUGGESTION:
BW has added augments, dye slots, and tuning slots to gear over the years. What if the devs added a new expertise/pvp mod slot to each of 14 pieces of gear? The only thing that can go into this slot is an expertise mod. The only way to acquire the expertise mods is with the pvp currency. These expertise mods would have no effect in pve. There could also be special class perks that come with the mod, similar to set bonus.

Anyway.... don't want to carry 4 sets of gear on my scrapper/ruffian/sawbones scoundrel.
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Sejanos / Warpunk
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Thanks Rion Starbrah.

VaeVictis's Avatar


VaeVictis
02.11.2019 , 11:28 AM | #20
Bolster is 252 with a current gear cap of 258, if you can't compete at that level then you're just bad and looking for excuses for your losses.

I dusted off my Guardian last night that I haven't played in years to team with a friend pub side. Said Guardian is still in Rishi blues. My entire left side minus bracers was sans augments. I was top 3 DPS (counting both sides) in every match and we went 10-6. I even played as Focus.

hurr durr inb4 Trixxie classic excuse of you were teamed with bads against bads...no it was Sunday all the best premades were out in force.

252 Bolster is all you need otherwise there are plenty of safe space single-player games.