I'm a full tank guardian with a few points put into sweep damage. EVERY single WZ I compete in, I'm usually close to top of the leader boards as far as medals. For anyone who plays Guardian and complains that they are weak, they are playing their toon wrong.

Guardians need to know their roll. I'm not going to stand toe to toe with a sniper/maurader and just trade blows. That is suicide. Guardians need to keep someone guarded. Awe is a powerful tool. Guardian leap is there for a reason, use it. Then pop area taunt.

It is our job to stay upright when everyone else dies to delay the cap until our bretheren returns.

The only issue I have with being a guardian in WZ's is that some of our skills don't work, i.e. pommel strike and opportune strike.

I'm currently playing as a Vigilance guardian as DPS and I'm very pleased with the class, when i play other classes, im scared of Juggs... But when my team is in need of guarding (usually against a good team) i switch into Soresu form, and still have enough dps to take out a healer or put immense pressure on one.

Come to think of it, i might just re-talent into 18/23, since i hear so much great feedback on that build.

I think that vigilance has a great survivability skill set and DPS as well to take out opponents that aren't being healed.

What do you guys think? Pros and Cons pls

I'm a full tank guardian with a few points put into sweep damage. EVERY single WZ I compete in, I'm usually close to top of the leader boards as far as medals. For anyone who plays Guardian and complains that they are weak, they are playing their toon wrong.

Medals don't mean **** dude.

Guardians need to know their roll. I'm not going to stand toe to toe with a sniper/maurader and just trade blows. That is suicide. Guardians need to keep someone guarded. Awe is a powerful tool. Guardian leap is there for a reason, use it. Then pop area taunt.

The other two tank classes can, why shouldn't we be able to?

It is our job to stay upright when everyone else dies to delay the cap until our bretheren returns.

 

The only issue I have with being a guardian in WZ's is that some of our skills don't work, i.e. pommel strike and opportune strike.

Unfortunately there are classes that do a far better job of that than us. Tank shadows, tank vanguards, sentinels. for example. They're far harder to kill and they do more dps.

I'm a full tank guardian with a few points put into sweep damage. EVERY single WZ I compete in, I'm usually close to top of the leader boards as far as medals. For anyone who plays Guardian and complains that they are weak, they are playing their toon wrong.

.

Try to play not against pug noobs in green pve gear/recruit, but against WH augumented premades with maras and tankasins... then dont say fairy tales.

Try to play not against pug noobs in green pve gear/recruit, but against WH augumented premades with maras and tankasins... then dont say fairy tales.

Exactly correct. Guardians are still lagging behind the other classes both in tank and dps specs. We all know it. The only way a Guardian survives long enough to be of much use is if they have a pocket healer. On my server, Guardians are intentionally targeted first to thin the herd, since they know we go down fast 1v1. Our heavy armor was supposed to be our main mitigation, but then we got light armor tanks who have more damage mitigation across the board than we do. Right now, our mitigation against white damage is ok, but that's not what flies around in pvp.

I'm Vigilance with two WH pieces (chest and head) both with arguments, rakata shield and a PvE relic that gives extra +500ish shield every time I block, endurance stim, on dps gear and my HP is 19K, generally on Soresu form (shift + up and shift + down and I change my Form and off-hand).

When I see ppl complaining about our survivability I can't actually understand it. Basically I can have 2 Sorcs spamming on me, and I will kill both. I can have a Merc and a Sniper on me and I will probably kill both. If I don't kill them I will live long enough for backup. But 1v2 only on Soresu form, any of the dps forms are only useful when no one is targeting us, otherwise you are easy kill.

The only classes that is a hassle for me are Mara and PT, tank sin I eat for lunch. Powertech is a tough fight as Marad, specially when the RNG is at their side, at least Mara is easier to predict their next move.

In a WZ I don't focus on killing one after other as a Marauder, instead I will reduce the utility of several by Force Freeze every time I jump in the middle of a pack, spam DoTs and MS, awe, Taunt, Guard, force Push, interrupt and once my debuffs are spread around their entire team I will focus on killing anyone that is attacking my healer.

The secret about this class is you can't be greed, don't think about how many you will kill, think about how many you will make useless. If you are hitting someone and his life still going up let him go, change target, jump to their healer, focus on someone else’s target, stun their healer or their ranged dps... but don't forget Force Freeze.

Use your mobility, keep moving, keep jumping, keep their dps on their toes, draw their attention, use LoS, guard your healer, jump to your mates for some focus fire, Debuff their team....

The class is good, actually is so much better than my Merc and my Sage (alts) that I can't even compare. It is not the best for open world PvP? NO (is probably one of the bottom ones)..... but is the best one IMHO for WZ due the sum of mobility, protection, cc and dmg by far.

I would love some changes, yes.. specially on the DPS forms. If at least one of them would give extra protection and make off-hand shield to proc would be awesome.

When I see ppl complaining about our survivability I can't actually understand it. Basically I can have 2 Sorcs spamming on me, and I will kill both. I can have a Merc and a Sniper on me and I will probably kill both.

There must be no good pvp'ers on imps side on your server. 2 sorcs in green pve/recrut dont compared with 2 sorcs premade, in full augumented WH.

Reroll to Tomb and faced very strong premades of imps, when you meet any 2 you have no chances.

There must be no good pvp'ers on imps side on your server.

Or he's just better than you.

edit: and when the hell will people stop comparing a balanced class with the OP ones (tank sins, marauders)?

I go back and forth between Vig and Force guardian. If played right, you can certainly land at the top of the damage and medals charts. Most of the groups that PVP on our server are decent geared premades and I never feel like my Guardian is gimped. Are we going to compete with the AOE damage numbers that others put up? No. If you run in defense form with Guard on and use taunts apropriately...check the protection numbers and see how much damage you kept from your teammates.

For those that think medals don't mean anything...tell that to all of the extra WZ comms that we get.

Or he's just better than you.

 

Better fairyteller, no doubt

No medals = no damage, no protection, no healing, no objectives, no nothing. Useless.

Lots of medals = lots of damage, lots of protection, lots of healing, lots of objectives. Very useful.

Unless Bioware say there is something wrong with a spec or a class, then the problem is the player.

Better fairyteller, no doubt

What do you know about that?

BTW, marauders/tank sins teams destroy EVERYTHING. That doesn't make guardians weak or anything like that.

edit: sorcs/sages are free kills now. I feel sorry for them and they have my deepest sympathies.

Better fairyteller, no doubt

*** is a fairyteller?! LOL!

Exactly correct. Guardians are still lagging behind the other classes both in tank and dps specs. We all know it. The only way a Guardian survives long enough to be of much use is if they have a pocket healer. On my server, Guardians are intentionally targeted first to thin the herd, since they know we go down fast 1v1. Our heavy armor was supposed to be our main mitigation, but then we got light armor tanks who have more damage mitigation across the board than we do. Right now, our mitigation against white damage is ok, but that's not what flies around in pvp.

Are we playing the same game?

I really can't see how Guardian would be less good than Vanguard what comes to avoiding damage. My experience is that vigilance is as good if not better than Vanguards tank spec in pvp.

Are we playing the same game?

 

I really can't see how Guardian would be less good than Vanguard what comes to avoiding damage. My experience is that vigilance is as good if not better than Vanguards tank spec in pvp.

Vanguards do actually do more damage than a Vigilance Guardian. They have some decent basic defensive cool downs and currently a DPS Vanguard will do so much damage so quickly that he can usually drop a target pretty hard before he gets hit with too much damage. At least that's been my experience with my Assault Spec'ed Vanguard that I'm currently leveling. The damage on that class seems to be WAY out of proportion with it's survivability. But I imagine that they're going to be fixing that in a patch sometimes soon. I currently have no issues hitting 300k damage with my Vanguard in pre 50 war zones. Other classes don't even come close.

But even with that being the case, the Assault Vanguard has absolutely zero utility. You just do damage. That's it. You get a useful pull off every now and then but beyond that you really rely solely on your ability to kill other players as all you do. That's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. It's just that while I do tons of damage with my assault spec vanguard I generally feel more useful with my Guardian.

Vanguards do actually do more damage than a Vigilance Guardian. They have some decent basic defensive cool downs and currently a DPS Vanguard will do so much damage so quickly that he can usually drop a target pretty hard before he gets hit with too much damage. At least that's been my experience with my Assault Spec'ed Vanguard that I'm currently leveling. The damage on that class seems to be WAY out of proportion with it's survivability. But I imagine that they're going to be fixing that in a patch sometimes soon. I currently have no issues hitting 300k damage with my Vanguard in pre 50 war zones. Other classes don't even come close.

 

But even with that being the case, the Assault Vanguard has absolutely zero utility. You just do damage. That's it. You get a useful pull off every now and then but beyond that you really rely solely on your ability to kill other players as all you do. That's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. It's just that while I do tons of damage with my assault spec vanguard I generally feel more useful with my Guardian.

Vanguards have very little CC and pretty much zero mobility, they have good mitigation but their all out survivability is pretty weak.

Vanguards have very little CC and pretty much zero mobility, they have good mitigation but their all out survivability is pretty weak.

Ummm... k? I think their CC is pretty awesome. At level 50 you get a stun, a pull and an AoE stun. That's quite a bit of CC. You don't get any knock backs or anything but you really don't need one. As far as their mobility is concerned "Zero Mobility" is a matter of perspective. Compared to a Guardian everyone has Zero mobility. Guardians have the unique ability of being able to reach anyone within a 30 meter radius whether they are friend or foe. That's something no one else can do. However, compared to something like a gunnery/arsenal commando/merc being able to move and pop off your entire DPS rotation is a huge difference and ends up being all the mobility in the world. So while sure they're not as mobile as the most mobile class in the game, they're certainly more mobile than most class. It's rare that you will be standing still and channeling with a Vanguard. As far as their mitigation is concerned I don't know. If I use my defensive cool down that gives me +25% damage reduction and a war zone medpack and or expertise adrenal I feel pretty durable. And again, you kill people so fast as a vanguard that they don't have a lot of time to deal damage.

I know this thread is about Guardians but I don't know... I felt the need to clarify.

Ummm... k? I think their CC is pretty awesome. At level 50 you get a stun, a pull and an AoE stun. That's quite a bit of CC. You don't get any knock backs or anything but you really don't need one. As far as their mobility is concerned "Zero Mobility" is a matter of perspective. Compared to a Guardian everyone has Zero mobility. Guardians have the unique ability of being able to reach anyone within a 30 meter radius whether they are friend or foe. That's something no one else can do. However, compared to something like a gunnery/arsenal commando/merc being able to move and pop off your entire DPS rotation is a huge difference and ends up being all the mobility in the world. So while sure they're not as mobile as the most mobile class in the game, they're certainly more mobile than most class. It's rare that you will be standing still and channeling with a Vanguard. As far as their mitigation is concerned I don't know. If I use my defensive cool down that gives me +25% damage reduction and a war zone medpack and or expertise adrenal I feel pretty durable. And again, you kill people so fast as a vanguard that they don't have a lot of time to deal damage.

 

I know this thread is about Guardians but I don't know... I felt the need to clarify.

1. Vanguards have stuns, not CC's. We can't force lift someone and cap a point.

2. Guardians also have 2 leaps, making them incredibly hard to stop in huttball, and in the right hands, a bigger threat then vanguard. Medals don't mean win. I'm a full war hero vanguard and I often win (and score), but if i lose in huttball its because no middle control and/or at least 1 tough jugg carrying the ball. You said it yourself, guardians can do what nobody else can do. Note: middle control is so important and you don't get many medals for that...

3. Vanguard mitigation does nothing in PVP. We have high armor, but that doesn't mean anything against elemental or internal attacks. Those who play us know to use the abilities that are not mitigated. Note: You can't compare a non-50 to a 50...people don't have all their ablilites, and vanguards get things early

4. vanguard is not a commando. I can only fire off my rotation from 10m. that gives me advantage against some shadows/assassins but that's about it.

1. Vanguards have stuns, not CC's. We can't force lift someone and cap a point.

 

2. Guardians also have 2 leaps, making them incredibly hard to stop in huttball, and in the right hands, a bigger threat then vanguard. Medals don't mean win. I'm a full war hero vanguard and I often win (and score), but if i lose in huttball its because no middle control and/or at least 1 tough jugg carrying the ball. You said it yourself, guardians can do what nobody else can do. Note: middle control is so important and you don't get many medals for that...

 

3. Vanguard mitigation does nothing in PVP. We have high armor, but that doesn't mean anything against elemental or internal attacks. Those who play us know to use the abilities that are not mitigated. Note: You can't compare a non-50 to a 50...people don't have all their ablilites, and vanguards get things early

 

4. vanguard is not a commando. I can only fire off my rotation from 10m. that gives me advantage against some shadows/assassins but that's about it.

Alrighty, since we're doin' ocunt downs I guess....

1) Guardians don't have that either. We have Force Stasis but unless you're deep defense spec'ed then you're staying still for as long as your target is. Even if you are deep in the defense tree the it only lasts 3 seconds. The only class that has a combat CC like you're talking about is the Sage.

2) Again, you're comparing the most mobile class in the game to pretty much anything else. That's one of the perks of playing a Guardian. I may not do as much damage, I may not take as much damage but I'm very very useful to have around when you need someone to physically be anywhere within 30 meters at a moments notice. Guadians have the best mobility of any class in the game. That doesn't mean that Vanguards mobility is bad. that's the point I was trying to communicate.

3) The overhwelming majority of attacks in this game are mitigated by armor. Additionally the 25% damage reduction cool down that vanguards get is pretty darn good. In a lot of ways it's better than Saber Ward. It gives you a flat damage reduction bonus. We only get a 25% damage reduction bonus against tech and force attacks and then we get a 50% increase in our defense chance but then they still have a 45% chance to hit us for full damage with melee and ranged attacks. It's a good cool down but not bullet proof. Your defensive cool down is also on a 2 minute cool down as opposed to our 3 minute cool down on saber ward.

4) I was comparing Vanguard mobility to Commando mobility. Commandos are pretty much immobile turrets. When they're doing their DPS rotation they can't really move at all. They can't kite as effectively as a Vanguard either. I prefer to get in close with my Vanguard and run "Figure 8's" through my opponent. But I was just saying that as a mobility comparison. I wasn't saying that they're the same. And yes, a Vanguard must be relatively very close to perform your DPS rotation. That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that you can actually move while doing it. Commandos can't do that. I thought I was pretty clear there. The point I was trying to get across was that while Vanguards don't have a Guardians mobility they certainly have more mobility than a commando. So they don't have poor mobility. They have average mobility in my experience.

Guardian Leap is awesome

But TAB targeting kills it....

Guardian Leap is awesome

But TAB targeting kills it....

TAB targetting ?

I only use that when theres only one guy.

Target nearest friend comes in handy sometimes in combination with Guardian leap.

Alrighty, since we're doin' ocunt downs I guess....

 

1) Guardians don't have that either. We have Force Stasis but unless you're deep defense spec'ed then you're staying still for as long as your target is. Even if you are deep in the defense tree the it only lasts 3 seconds. The only class that has a combat CC like you're talking about is the Sage. No, commandos shadows sages scoundrels. shadows sap is very effective if used correctly

 

2) Again, you're comparing the most mobile class in the game to pretty much anything else. That's one of the perks of playing a Guardian. I may not do as much damage, I may not take as much damage but I'm very very useful to have around when you need someone to physically be anywhere within 30 meters at a moments notice. Guadians have the best mobility of any class in the game. That doesn't mean that Vanguards mobility is bad. that's the point I was trying to communicate.This is a win for guardian. Enough said

 

3) The overhwelming majority of attacks in this game are mitigated by armor. Additionally the 25% damage reduction cool down that vanguards get is pretty darn good. In a lot of ways it's better than Saber Ward. It gives you a flat damage reduction bonus. We only get a 25% damage reduction bonus against tech and force attacks and then we get a 50% increase in our defense chance but then they still have a 45% chance to hit us for full damage with melee and ranged attacks. It's a good cool down but not bullet proof. Your defensive cool down is also on a 2 minute cool down as opposed to our 3 minute cool down on saber ward. Reactive shield is better, but our mobility is less. Its an equal trade. Good players use alot of internal or elemental strikes. If you don't do that, then you should think about changing your rotation in pvp to match your opponent. When fighting a powertech, i will spam ion pulse because it's not mitigated by armor. If you have elemental attacks, you should considering using them in pvp when fighting this type of player

 

4) I was comparing Vanguard mobility to Commando mobility. Commandos are pretty much immobile turrets. When they're doing their DPS rotation they can't really move at all. They can't kite as effectively as a Vanguard either. I prefer to get in close with my Vanguard and run "Figure 8's" through my opponent. But I was just saying that as a mobility comparison. I wasn't saying that they're the same. And yes, a Vanguard must be relatively very close to perform your DPS rotation. That's not what I was saying. What I was saying is that you can actually move while doing it. Commandos can't do that. I thought I was pretty clear there. The point I was trying to get across was that while Vanguards don't have a Guardians mobility they certainly have more mobility than a commando. So they don't have poor mobility. They have average mobility in my experience.

It seems like your point was that vanguard is better then guardian, but your responses are a mixed collection of what you are trying to communicate. Commandos have a different pvp responsibility then vanguards. Just because a class can 1v1 better then another class, doesn't make them better. Certain classes are made to take 1v1's in a surprise attack or defending something (vanguards, scoundrels, shadows). It would not be wise to put your commando at one end of voidstar and the rest of the team at the other.

Anyone playing a commando and trying to play it like a vanguard is making a mistake. With the massive knockback and the insane "turret" damage, they are best away from the conflict overloooking the conflict from above.

 

It seems like your point was that vanguard is better then guardian, but your responses are a mixed collection of what you are trying to communicate. Commandos have a different pvp responsibility then vanguards. Just because a class can 1v1 better then another class, doesn't make them better. Certain classes are made to take 1v1's in a surprise attack or defending something (vanguards, scoundrels, shadows). It would not be wise to put your commando at one end of voidstar and the rest of the team at the other.

First and foremost I'm not saying that Vanguards are better than Guardians. As a matter of fact I didn't say that anywhere. I'm pointing out the differences between the two classes. You're reading way too far into my statements. There's no subtext here. I'm just pointing out factual differences and clarifying some of the more broad generalizations that I feel could be misconstrued as misleading. If you go earlier into the thread you'll see that I actually play a Vigilance Guardian as my main and have argued how good the class is.

For example, you actually said that a Vanguards mobility is "Bad." I cleared that up by saying that their mobility is actually NOT bad. They have the same mobility as most classes in the game. DPS Sages, Gunnery Commandos and healers all have the worst mobility in the game because they have to channel all of their attacks. Vanguards can move and fire. That's not a statement regarding the quality of the class. That's just a statement of fact. Vanguards don't have "Bad" mobility. They have average mobility.

I also stated earlier in this thread that, "I do more damage with my Assault Vanguard.... but in general I feel more usefull with my Vigilance Guardian." The Assault Vanguard currently does more damage (WAAAAAY too much damage) but the Vigilance Guardian has a lot more utility, particularly in Huttball where as far as I'm concerned the Vigilance Guardian reigns supreme.

I do like reactive shield better as a defensive cool down than Saber Ward. Saber Ward is quite literally very hit or miss. I would much rather have a flat damage reduction buff. But no class is perfect. I make Saber Ward work for me.

I've been playing as a 3/7/31 Focus Guardian in PvP. I play with my wife, who's a Sage healer, and we always roll into WZs together. Since she's usually focused on (sometimes by more than one person) I decided to go more with an AoE DPS spec since using Guard on her just hits me with unmitigated damage.

This strategy has proven very useful. I am rarely not the top medal winner in the WZs I'm in. I easily average over 200k damage and over 125k protection. I've had a few WZs where I've been top DPS at over 400k damage while still pulling in 200k+ protection.

Aside from the numbers, I'm simply having fun with the spec.