I've just hit 50 with my Vanguard this past weekend and came here to look for a PVP build that might be viable for PVE as well. For leveling (and currently since I have yet to respec) I was using 2/25/14 which apparently was similar to Taugrim's "Ironfist" build (not sure since the link is dated and doesn't display properly) and seemed to do well for both PVE and PVP. I was usually in the top 3 for damage & kills, and frequently over 10k protection (this is an area I need to work on IMO since aside from HoF and HoP there wasn't much to do with my Pally for defending other people) when PuGing solo in PVP.

At 50 however I'm finding it difficult (read nigh impossible) to kill healers. Granted I'm sporting Recruit Gear at the moment and am not sure how much of a factor that is. Right now I have the Supercommando set, and I think that's part of the issue but I took it because I didn't want to get an assault cannon for my weapon. Basically its time for fine tuning of both spec and gear. I came here and saw Taurgrim's name and was a bit happy since I used his Prot Pally PVP build in WoW, but like that beloved spec it appears "Ironfist" isn't viable anymore either. All I'm seeing is Assault & Tactics everywhere and that doesn't let me tank PVE content, and with the lack of dual specs I'm trying to find some kind of workable alternative. I've tried looking at the build links people have but most of them are dated and don't work.

As for Gear I need to go with the (I think its called) Eliminator set with some Supercommando stuff mixed in like the relics, off-hand and perhaps implants. I'm open to advice here.

As of now there actually really isn't much for us until the stop being so stubborn and fix us in the next patch with something we could do. There is a very good DPS assault build, but that makes you very squishy. Here is a website with a few builds that are pretty basic until something better comes out. I use 31/7/3 for mine. Also Supercommando is a very viable gear set, that is what I use, but PvP has been slowed down for me because of the nerf so I am focusing on PvE with my guild right now.

Here: http://vanguardbuilds.com/

At 50 however I'm finding it difficult (read nigh impossible) to kill healers. Granted I'm sporting Recruit Gear at the moment and am not sure how much of a factor that is. Right now I have the Supercommando set, and I think that's part of the issue but I took it because I didn't want to get an assault cannon for my weapon...

I'm running out of energy to answer threads like this.

If you are a tank and you're attacking a healer, you are doing it wrong. That is not your job. Stop it. Your job is first and foremost to protect your team, and that's what you should be focusing on. You can also apply great AoE pressure on the side, but target takedown is not what you should be doing. DPS specs have the tools needed to kill healers, but tanks do not. Tanks exist to counter enemy DPS by lowering their damage.

Trying to kill a healer (or anyone receiving heals) as a tank is like trying to ram a square peg into a round hole. Even if you can occasionally hammer it in, that's not what it's meant to do and you will always perform poorly. Either switch to the square hole (protect your team) or get a round peg (play DPS).

If you want to actually tank PvP, then that's great. Check my signature for a build that is effective at both PvP and PvE. I use it to PvP all the time to great effect, and I also tank HM Ops without a hitch. But if you're looking for a build that can deal high damage while still being viable for PvE tanking... it doesn't exist. Even Iron Fist couldn't handle that. The whole point of Iron Fist is that it kept all of the good PvP defensive bonuses (armor, straight damage reduction), but got rid of the defensive bonuses that favor PvE (shield/absorb) in exchange for higher damage. If you want to tank any serious PvE content, you need to go full shield.

Also, you're going to be bad at everything in recruit gear. Recruit gear exists to prevent you from being utterly massacred when starting because you're in level 45 green quest gear. However, there is a large gap between Recruit and BM/WH gear. Just stick with the game; it gets much better after you get three or four pieces of battlemaster gear, and those are really, really easy to get.

I actually caught another post by you Philosomanic that answered things after posting this one. I tried out the full shield build last night and found it interesting. Granted I need some adjustment as I had to rearrange some hot keys and my muscle memory is still screwing me a bit. I've changed my play style as well and focused more on guarding & taunting and defuffing more than actual damage. Though it seems that people soon realize I'm a bit squishy due to recruit gear and I get focused if they are halfway decent.

One thing I was thinking about is crafting the empty Supercommando (400 Armormech) gear and putting the Eliminator mods into it for the set bonus. That gives greater mobility with a shorter Storm cooldown and a small damage boost while guarding. I know I know we are not supposed to be killing stuff but at the same time I'd argue that our damage should not be albe to be ignored by any DPS with a defensive cooldown and a self heal while they burn down a teammate either.

Also do you know if the debuff from the Static Field talent counts towards Protection points like taunts do?

Granted I need some adjustment as I had to rearrange some hot keys and my muscle memory is still screwing me a bit. I've changed my play style as well and focused more on guarding & taunting and defuffing more than actual damage. Though it seems that people soon realize I'm a bit squishy due to recruit gear and I get focused if they are halfway decent.

My only advice here is to keep at it. I went through the muscle memory pains too when I switched to SS. I'd leveled from 10 to 50 as Assault, and already had nearly full BM and a couple WH Eliminator pieces. I still have some of the WH Eliminator mods. But once you get your new muscle memory, things get much better. Likewise, you're going to see a huge, drastic improvement from just getting a couple pieces of BM gear.

One thing I was thinking about is crafting the empty Supercommando (400 Armormech) gear and putting the Eliminator mods into it for the set bonus.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work. The crafted gear is for appearance only and does not have the set bonus.

That gives greater mobility with a shorter Storm cooldown and a small damage boost while guarding. I know I know we are not supposed to be killing stuff but at the same time I'd argue that our damage should not be albe to be ignored by any DPS with a defensive cooldown and a self heal while they burn down a teammate either.

Oh, yeah, I'll never argue that damage is worthless as a PvP tank. What bugs me is the people who roll a tank, but then play like a DPS. They're not supporting their team, they're just doing extremely sub-par DPS and dying slower. I try to focus on AoE pressure damage as much as possible. Our single-target damage is pretty weak and easily healed through, but we can put out strong AoE damage. This makes it harder on the enemy healer, and easier on our allied DPS.

Also do you know if the debuff from the Static Field talent counts towards Protection points like taunts do?

Sadly, it does not. Likewise, Smoke Grenade doesn't count towards Protection. The only things that affect your Protection total are Neural Jolt, Sonic Round, and Guard.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work. The crafted gear is for appearance only and does not have the set bonus.

Sadly, it does not. Likewise, Smoke Grenade doesn't count towards Protection. The only things that affect your Protection total are Neural Jolt, Sonic Round, and Guard.

I figured we woudln't be that lucky, but I still try to hit evryone I can with the debuff. Thanks for the reply.

I'm having fun with the build, now I'm just a little confused/annoyed with the gearing situation.

So far I've picked up:

BM Supercommando's Rifle (I had commendations burning a hole in my pocket and it was the first thing I did after hitting 50)

BM Supercommando's Shield Generator

BM Eliminator's Helmet

Anyway I've read that the actual Supercommando gear is not good and that I should be getting Eliminator gear, however I've seen quite a few tanks sporting full Supercommando with no changes to it. I'd considered swapping in the mods & enhancements from Eliminator and leaving the Armor (that is what dictates the bonuses and why they are "locked") so that I basically have the Supercommando Armor & Bonuses with the damage oriented mods & enhancements from Eliminator. That is going to be hideously expensive and time consuming, especially considering I'd have to repeat the process with the WH gear. Hence the frustration & confusion. Why'd BW give the Supercommando gear mods & enchancements that are sub-par considering shields don't work for Force & Tech abilites?

My research has lead me to believe that the stat priotities are:

Expertise > Aim >= Critical Rating (30%) = Surge Rating (75%) > Power/Tech Power > Accuracy (105%)

Which to me is the Eliminator set. Thoughts?

My thought is that if you're a Vanguard and insist on weaving DPS gear into your set, you probably should be taking C.Tech over Eliminator's. And augmenting to cover whatever ground your losing defensively. The two set bonus on Neural alone already is better than anything Eliminator can offer. The only Eliminator option that I'd even consider is the mainhand. Tanking in PvP can find some functional usages for DPS with gearing and augments but at the end of the day, your job isn't really to do damage. At least not the type of damage you're probably thinking of. And I'd be very careful about placing too much premium on it. You can strike a balance but when in doubt, always err on the side of the defensive.

If you want a build that's viable in both endgames, 31 points is pretty essential now. As is an understanding that tanking is PvP is not about preventing damage through burning an attacker except in very, very rare circumstances. It's about mitgation, higher uptime, positioning, and harrassment. For instance, dealing with a healer isn't about killing the healer. It's about shutting down their resources, not falling for fakecasts, and taking advantage of the fact that our CC's are mobile and that our pull can shift them to a disadvantageous position. Tanking is a preventative role, not a destructive one.