I believe it’s time to revise Electro Net and I have some suggestions.

 

Electro Net was introduced at a time when Mercenaries/Commandos were particularly weak—before abilities like Rocket Out, Responsive Safeguards and improved Kolto Overload—and needed a trump card to make them more viable/survivable. It was and remains one of the most powerful abilities in the game. Mercenaries’ new defensive cooldowns make them extremely tanky—the developers should consider a rework of Electro Net to be a critical quality-of-life change for PvP.

 

Let me be clear: I am not advocating the removal of Electro Net. I think it’s an interesting mechanic, adding a layer of complexity to the game. The following suggestions are with a view to improving balance in PvP. As it stands, Electro Net is too punishing; it is particularly frustrating when multiple Electro Nets are in play. Here are three suggestions:

 

1)The target of Electro Net receives a 90s (edited) buff which prevents them being affected by Electro Net for its duration (similar to the “Bastioned” buff applied by Cybertech grenades). Optionally, players could be unable to activate Electro Net against players who are immune (the ability would be grayed out on their action bars) so they don’t waste it during this time.

 

or

 

2) Rework resolve: make players immune to the effects of Electro Net completely when their resolve meter is filled (when they have “white bar”), enabling them to use escapes and high-mobility actions. Electro Net, in addition to restricting activating lifesaving defensives, it also punishes you for moving during its duration with its stacking DoT. This makes the slowing addition to the Electro Net function in combat more like a root than a slow. The resolve system is meant to give players a window during which they can defend themselves but Electro Net denies you this window. If developers are wary of reworking hinder, at least prevent players’ movement from being impaired when their resolve meter is filled.

or

 

3)Reduce the duration of Electro Net’s effects from 9 seconds to 7 seconds. Slight reduction in effect time.

Disagree. Electro-net was never that much of an issue. Due to the mercenary/commando class being very weak pre 5.0. It is only now an issue because due to the extra added defensives that mercenaries and commandos now bring to the playing field. It means that now electro net is treated as an offensive weapon rather than a defensive ability. If certain defensive abilities were removed I am sure most people would not consider electro-net as too much of an issue.

Disagree. Electro-net was never that much of an issue. Due to the mercenary/commando class being very weak pre 5.0. It is only now an issue because due to the extra added defensives that mercenaries and commandos now bring to the playing field. It means that now electro net is treated as an offensive weapon rather than a defensive ability. If certain defensive abilities were removed I am sure most people would not consider electro-net as too much of an issue.

removing anything before 6.0 or at launch of 6.0 might not be the best idea, I believe that because of all the new items and changes coming. Its best to keep things the way they are because other classes are getting buffed according to the datamined information. Mercs will need that net

nerf it so i stop getting globalled

kthx

That is an interesting idea, having multiple nets unable to apply hinder. But if you fiddle with that code wouldnt that also apply hinder with Gore? I personally have no issue, competitively, with carnage having a hinder because it is for 1 gcd. I think Gore is fairly balanced. But if you are going to tinker with how net hinder works I think it might also effect how Gore's hinder works during that time too.

 

When it comes to electro net going through mad dash and roll immunity are we 100% sure this isn't a desync issue? I remember multiple times where I would be in the mad dash animation and I would be hardstun in it. I am not 100% confident in saying net is going through these abilities with how bad desync is. But Shroud is another story, that needs to be addressed. I am not sure if its an issue with Shroud or Net itself but that bug is annoying.

No, all you need is net application giving the target the buff "cannot be hindered by net", and set the duration to a minute, 30 seconds, whatever. Just like how getting naded gives you the bastioned buff for 3 mins. They could easily add this effect to net and not gore, though they might have trouble making it so that gore hinder still works during that time frame but not net. An easy workaround would be to rename gore's hinder to some other effect name in the code but still have it do the same thing, in order to bypass the "hinder" immunity.

Yes, it's confirmed that mando net straight up just goes through immunities and merc net doesn't.

No, all you need is net application giving the target the buff "cannot be hindered by net", and set the duration to a minute, 30 seconds, whatever. Just like how getting naded gives you the bastioned buff for 3 mins. They could easily add this effect to net and not gore, though they might have trouble making it so that gore hinder still works during that time frame but not net. An easy workaround would be to rename gore's hinder to some other effect name in the code but still have it do the same thing, in order to bypass the "hinder" immunity.

 

Yes, it's confirmed that mando net straight up just goes through immunities and merc net doesn't.

I agree with that. I don't think gore is a problem at all, compared to merc nets.

1) Gore is a 4m range ability compared to enet 30m

2) Gore can miss unlike enet (it's white damage)

3) Gore lasts 1 GCD only compared to 6 GCD's (during which time mara can be knockbacked or stunned or you can move out of range)

I think merc net feels rather unfair due to there being 18 GCD's for 3 DPS focusing you, while you can't escape. In comparison to just 3 GCD's by 3 DPS for gore.

I think merc net feels rather unfair.

I think merc net feels fine like a flowing river of golden tears of whine streaming all across my entire body. Ahhh, feels gooooood.

I think merc net feels fine like a flowing river of golden tears of whine streaming all across my entire body. Ahhh, feels gooooood.

Don't get me wrong, I have a merc too but when you're playing against 2 mercs + a dps who know what they're doing, double net (36 GCD's) is insane.

It doesn't really matter if you have a tank and a healer.

Net is an iconic part of a merc's toolkit nowadays, but with all the other stuff they've gotten in 5.0.. it's completely unnecessary for defense, which is what I think it was originally designed for.

A "bastion" buff that lasts 30-45 seconds would be a good way to tone it down a bit since there's so many mercs in the queue, and the main issue is that 1 net can pretty much ruin some classes in group fights if used at a bad time for the guy, which is kinda dumb. Now amplify that by there being 4-5 dps mercs in every match, and big yikes.

Net is an iconic part of a merc's toolkit nowadays, but with all the other stuff they've gotten in 5.0.. it's completely unnecessary for defense, which is what I think it was originally designed for.

 

A "bastion" buff that lasts 30-45 seconds would be a good way to tone it down a bit since there's so many mercs in the queue, and the main issue is that 1 net can pretty much ruin some classes in group fights if used at a bad time for the guy, which is kinda dumb. Now amplify that by there being 4-5 dps mercs in every match, and big yikes.

I don’t think net was designed for defense. It’s an inherently offensive ability that used to do a lot of damage on its own in previous patches.

I don’t think net was designed for defense. It’s an inherently offensive ability that used to do a lot of damage on its own in previous patches.

In fact there's a utility that further demonstrates the ability is just for that, for Mando its called one man army, for Merc I can't remember maybe "body bag"?

E-net has always been better used to melt someone and stop them from escaping, not the other way around. This whole topic is dumb AF anyway.

If we want Mercs to be more "in line" with other classes in PVP then let's have a serious discussion about their overtuned DCDs.

This idea that a change to e-net will bring some noticeable change to PVP is simply false. Well, I mean of course unless you are on a certain class that finds e-net to be your achilles heel, well then I could see why you'd fret about e-net.

Let's remember the amount of times e-net is stacked in a coordinated fashion is ultra rare especially in regs (and who cares anyways) and as for ranked I only see two people that are overlords of ranked opining e-net needs changed. Clearly not a big deal there, either.

I don’t think net was designed for defense. It’s an inherently offensive ability that used to do a lot of damage on its own in previous patches.

its technically both isn't it? if it punishes the player for moving and using movement abilities it is therefore also a defensive mechanic. its both offensive and defensive in nature. net is perfect for peeling just as much as it is for forcing breakers or trying to get a kill.

its technically both isn't it? if it punishes the player for moving and using movement abilities it is therefore also a defensive mechanic. its both offensive and defensive in nature. net is perfect for peeling just as much as it is for forcing breakers or trying to get a kill.

you're certainly right about it being both.

you'd be surprised how little effect it has on melee as a peel/kite in this meta. when I left the game about 2-3 years ago, it would stop a melee dead in its tracks (not literally dead but there where multiple gcds to range them). now, warriors and dps ops are like...shrug, and on you the next gcd. works well enough on PTs between HO and sins.

ironically, it works well defensively against all ranged classes

(this is all assuming you not stupid and don't net someone during an immunity, of course -- which is itself a huge gambit given all the rubber-banding with modern movement enhancements and poor game engine; I'm rocking a 2080 gfx with fios connection, m.2 pcie ssd, etc.; it's not me, BW, it's you).

you're certainly right about it being both.

 

you'd be surprised how little effect it has on melee as a peel/kite in this meta. when I left the game about 2-3 years ago, it would stop a melee dead in its tracks (not literally dead but there where multiple gcds to range them). now, warriors and dps ops are like...shrug, and on you the next gcd. works well enough on PTs between HO and sins.

 

ironically, it works well defensively against all ranged classes

 

(this is all assuming you not stupid and don't net someone during an immunity, of course -- which is itself a huge gambit given all the rubber-banding with modern movement enhancements and poor game engine; I'm rocking a 2080 gfx with fios connection, m.2 pcie ssd, etc.; it's not me, BW, it's you).

Honestly I find the ability more of just an inconvenience to most classes now.

I find my merc only manages a kill with e-net when the enemy is an idiot, ran out of DCDs, can't get back to their healer, or has run completely out of power to do anything else.

There's so many gap closers and ways to circumvent and/or diminish the deadliness of e-net now, whether it's used for defensive purposes or offensive purposes.

I definitely find it far more useful now to use as an offensive ability though. It's super rare that I land it on a sorc or ops, and kill them due to e-net being on them.

mercs are tanks, heal dps in one. Electro-net is just stuff for finishing other underpowered classes right now.

They need to buff merc even more so they can make their own league. Operative isnt far away from them.

They cant even fix broken stuff in game for weeks/years, so why should they care about those classes being brokenly OP in pvp. Who cares. Enjoy while it lasts(game).

its technically both isn't it? if it punishes the player for moving and using movement abilities it is therefore also a defensive mechanic. its both offensive and defensive in nature. net is perfect for peeling just as much as it is for forcing breakers or trying to get a kill.

Please don’t use net to peel for someone. You’re wasting the lock down potential and using the ability inefficiently when a hardstun or a root would suffice instead. Just because I can use force barrier to break a sap doesn’t mean I should.

Please don’t use net to peel for someone. You’re wasting the lock down potential and using the ability inefficiently when a hardstun or a root would suffice instead. Just because I can use force barrier to break a sap doesn’t mean I should.

of course, ideally you want it to be used to get a kill but sometimes saving a team mate from dying and using it for peeling its the best move in a given situation. just like teams if you are behind in hardswap your sniper might use a diversion defensively instead of saving it for an aggressive play on the enemy sniper. net, just like other abilities can be used in multiple ways; aggressive or defensive

Electronet needs a Bastion.

End of story.

Electronet needs a Bastion.

 

End of story.

Or you could fix the problem and not just the symptom.

This is the second time Hottie has proposed this change. And both times were met with ambivalence.

Net is not the problem. 4 Mercs on 1 team is the problem. Net only becomes problematic when you get double/triple/quadruple netted.

Or you could fix the problem and not just the symptom.

 

This is the second time Hottie has proposed this change. And both times were met with ambivalence.

 

Net is not the problem. 4 Mercs on 1 team is the problem. Net only becomes problematic when you get double/triple/quadruple netted.

nerf net to 4 sec duration 2min cd, cleansable, as it should be, problems solved.

TBH electro net is fine.

Agreed. ^

Edit***

I guess to some this is some sort of problem but I never really noticed it being as such. I don't really see any argument presenting how if nerfed this would make the game improved in any way that many people would notice.

If e-net was being stacked and a big issue in PVP, then sure nerf it but there's far better things to revisit if we want PVP to be better balanced, more fair, etc. Merc DPS DCDs should be "revisited."

More relevant changes would make a difference not just for a very small niche of players but all PVPers as a whole.

Agreed. ^

 

Edit***

 

I guess to some this is some sort of problem but I never really noticed it being as such. I don't really see any argument presenting how if nerfed this would make the game improved in any way that many people would notice.

 

If e-net was being stacked and a big issue in PVP, then sure nerf it but there's far better things to revisit if we want PVP to be better balanced, more fair, etc. Merc DPS DCDs should be "revisited."

 

More relevant changes would make a difference not just for a very small niche of players but all PVPers as a whole.

If a bastion buff was added to net no other adjustments to mercs need to be made any time soon. It wouldn’t effect individual merc effectiveness in combat, or their damage output or how strong net is for a player. It wouldn’t be noticeable unless there is multiple mercs on the field. Adding bastion buff to net is an extremely reasonable suggestion.

If a bastion buff was added to net no other adjustments to mercs need to be made any time soon. It wouldn’t effect individual merc effectiveness in combat, or their damage output or how strong net is for a player. It wouldn’t be noticeable unless there is multiple mercs on the field. Adding bastion buff to net is an extremely reasonable suggestion.

I am just considering how this change would only make it so healers particularly would get longer lives when on the off-chance you as a op/sorc healer end up against a team that has multiple mercs.

Is this issue really big enough of a problem to basically grant longevity to already difficult to pin down healers? I mean this question in all sincerity.

I even prefer to play healers as anyone knows who has grouped with me or read my posts/threads here... But do sorcs/operatives really need a little bit more help?

I have to disagree with you, as a lowly pleb that only does/did solo ranked on sorc heals/merc heals and merc dps and tons of regs over the years.

I have seen and played both merc dps/heals for years, my favorite classes tbh, up there with sorc DPS and heals.

I felt the "powah" after they got buffed and granted an overload of DCDs after the class had been a foot mat for years, and there's no way I would say if e-net was nerfed, they would be balanced better for PVP and for the game in general right here and now with the present state of how robust of a DCD kit mercs got.

The annoying part of this is that the merc DPS have too much self-preservation whereas the healing spec STILL is easily interrupted and debilitated when tunneled and/or if multiple friends are damaged the merc just sucks at trying to keep up multiple targets especially if just one decent DPS is tunneling him while the group takes damage.

Sadly the bandaid fix of overtuned DCDs did sort of fix merc DPS so they no longer were insta-kills by nearly every other class in the game (or maybe as some believe made them OP'd.)

That being said, the DCDs really did nothing to improve the performance of the merc heal spec. This is more noticeable in ranked where gameplay is higher and most people recognize how easy it is compared to other healers to shut a merc healer down.

You know these details better than me though because you actually have far more ranked matches under your belt and you are fully knowledgeable of how each healing class performs in that structure.

Anyway, not trying to derail the point of your thread more, but I just have to express my disbelief that you honestly think a bastion addition to e-net will actually remove any need to do anything else to the merc class "any time soon."

Really?

Anyway, not trying to derail the point of your thread more, but I just have to express my disbelief that you honestly think a bastion addition to e-net will actually remove any need to do anything else to the merc class "any time soon."

 

Really?

Yeah, Hottie is simply wrong on that point. Merc dcds clearly need nerfing, which is obvious to anyone that plays solo ranked regularly (obligatory reminder that granked is dead and therefore irrelevant to the discussion).

But to me, nerfing multiple nets with a bastion debuff would be a relatively easy change that would help one particular problem: multiple mercs stacking net onto one target one after the other. That's it. A lot of people in this thread have really over-complicated the matter.