Low level materials are more expensive because very few players sell them. Most players are running grade 5/6 crew missions - not grade 1/2. This leaves only very fresh alts to be running the low level crew missions and they are scrambling with just 1 or 2 companions to gather enough materials to skill out of it. Besides, in my experience - I've had the most trouble selling low level materials at even the default market price that the UI lists it at.

 

It may be the "300 credits" for that level 1 material might be what the tool is listing them at by default.

 

After that is said, gathering lower level armoring/mods/barrels and enhancements are extremely easy. Just use the planet commendations. Run a heroic or two (or buy from the legacy vendor) to get the moddables, always take the planet commendation awards and there will be almost no need to purchase any low leveling crafting items while leveling. Just buy them from the planetary commendation mod vendor. With fully upgraded mods, the character will always be a level or two overpowered for the planet.

i know and i agree, however this all changed with the anomaly of 1.2 augments. ppl can use low grade mats to make the lowest level orange gear (i forget if its 15 or 17) crit craft it stick in endgame mods and boom cheapest possible crit crafted custom gear, and all you need is grade 1 mats.

this is the reason for the price hike to low level mats and low level custom crit crafted gear.

all i'm saying is that is not inflation

I know a lot of people on this forum like crafting and the gtn for its own sake, but I see it as a means to an end. How can I make my toon the most powerful? I think every crafting skill needs an exclusive, well-balanced end-game perk that will make all the skills equally attractive

Crafting skills SHOULD be for the profits, not for the power. The "means to the end" should be profits, not power. Which is why biochem/cyber are broken and need their perks removed. The last thing they should do is add "power perks" to the rest of the crewskills.

If you see it as a means to the end, end being more power, you should have no reason to participate. Another customer for those actually wanting to do what tradeskills are supposed to be for. Making stuff to sell.

Crafting skills SHOULD be for the profits, not for the power. The "means to the end" should be profits, not power. Which is why biochem/cyber are broken and need their perks removed. The last thing they should do is add "power perks" to the rest of the crewskills.

 

If you see it as a means to the end, end being more power, you should have no reason to participate. Another customer for those actually wanting to do what tradeskills are supposed to be for. Making stuff to sell.

Point taken. And it would be easier to remove two perks than add 6!

On my server it's frustrating for me as a synth to maintain a stock of boichem consumables because so many people have biochem reusables and don't bother making consumables. It's so much harder to find them on the GTN than the one-time purchases from all the other skills (except Cybertech grenades).

I guess the answer is to switch to Biochem, but that's a lame answer. The real issue is that only 2 skills make consumables, while the other skills make permanent goods. Perhaps all the skills need useful consumables?

background:

I have played this game since release, while I am not entirely happy with many of the decisions to date, I do not have an axe to grind, and this isn't my first MMO rodeo. I have been playing MMO's since 1994 and have always been a dedicated crafter. s

Finally, MMORPGs as defined today began with Meridian 59 in 1996, innovative both in its scope and in offering first-person 3D graphics, with The Realm Online appearing nearly simultaneously.[13] Ultima Online, released in 1997, is often credited with first popularizing the genre,[13] though more mainstream attention was garnered by 1999's EverQuest in the West[13] and 1996's Nexus: The Kingdom of the Winds in Asia.

source.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

so. my question is what were you playing in 1994?

Thanks very much for the feedback.

A small confession - I started responding to the augment questions in the other thread a week before I actually finished the post. During that time, we were still discussing and testing augment costs. I can't say what they'll be when Game Update 1.3 goes live, but it will be something less than 50K.

source.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

 

so. my question is what were you playing in 1994?

I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps a MUD?

source.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

 

so. my question is what were you playing in 1994?

Islands of Kesmai while not a true mmo by todays standards was running then. Loads of fun it was too. Later Legends of Kesmai was the beast till EA shut it down (#%&@*$)

Thanks very much for the feedback.

 

A small confession - I started responding to the augment questions in the other thread a week before I actually finished the post. During that time, we were still discussing and testing augment costs. I can't say what they'll be when Game Update 1.3 goes live, but it will be something less than 50K.

Ask, and you shall receive, OP!

I guess the answer is to switch to Biochem, but that's a lame answer. The real issue is that only 2 skills make consumables, while the other skills make permanent goods. Perhaps all the skills need useful consumables?

Or all the skills highest level goods should be reuseables. I honestly don't really see anything horrifically wrong if they didn't "phase out" reusables but simply removed the skill restriction on them and made them BoE. Maybe added some minor repair cost somehow in line with armor/weapons.

Armor is all reuseable. So are weapons. You only toss them out when you get better. No real reason why the same wouldn't work for clickables.

Or all the skills highest level goods should be reuseables. I honestly don't really see anything horrifically wrong if they didn't "phase out" reusables but simply removed the skill restriction on them and made them BoE. Maybe added some minor repair cost somehow in line with armor/weapons.

 

Armor is all reuseable. So are weapons. You only toss them out when you get better. No real reason why the same wouldn't work for clickables.

I could get behind that idea...maybe even have crafters create 'recharge kits' or something like that.

background:

I have played this game since release, while I am not entirely happy with many of the decisions to date, I do not have an axe to grind, and this isn't my first MMO rodeo. I have been playing MMO's since 1994 and have always been a dedicated crafter. I also get that sometimes changes are made that retrospectively impact players who assumed development planning was static and linear. That being said I am one of the BM's that got screwed because I pulled my PVP armor mods out and put them into a gear set I liked (Pilot Suit) at a cost of in excess of 1m+ credits (min/maxing between different sets) only to find that post 1.2 I need to spend in excess of 800k to reinsert my mods for little or no marginal benefit. As a consequence I have logged into my Sage exactly 3 times since 1.2 only to log out depressed thinking about the credit sink. Not a big deal I have an alt I leveled and am happily enjoying in PVP and crafting with, we have 8 slots after all.

 

Thats we can level another toon, that there is a time and credit sink involved in reaching a certain power level differential, and that sometimes we need to deal with adjustments during the development cycle as players is NOT the barrier to entry or the issue.

 

The issues from a dedicated crafter players perspective are thus:

1) We were given mis-information that all orange gear would be craft-able- And we stuck by you.

2) We were not able to RE crafted items for 1+ month until you could patch and fix this code - And we stuck by you

3) We've been told repeatedly that crafting end game would be viable - And we have stuck by you

4) Lets be frank: Server populations are down, this impacts the player based economy, you recall the need for demand in a supply and demand economy I'm sure from econ 101. We were promised new schematics we got PVP gear schematics (that took care of #1 above I guess....) - Given low pops, no demand, and no new schematics, we still stuck by you

5) We were told that set bonuses would transfer, and they do "only for post 1.2 gear" which resulted in quite a few people with modded gear being screwed - And we stuck by you

 

I frankly don't care what your metrics are telling you. I'm sure there are players with 2m+ credits, there always are in every game. My point is that given the above issues another credit sink of 50k when it already costs 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear (555k total) plus the costs associated with 5-6 augments (I can craft my own fortunately) for another 500k (@ approx 100k per augment) puts the barrier to entry at the BM tier around 1m+ credits plus the time sink.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but you would like to add another 250k cost on to this via augment slot tables?

 

So you'd like level 50 players to fork over 1.3m credits for top tier BM gear (plus whatever costs associated with upgrading to WH gear), assuming they can make their own, which most can't.

 

I'm not a casual, but by now most of my server is, and my guild is long gone (preferring to wait for GW2 rather than log in to SWTOR) so how is this fair to them? How is a high cost barrier to entry fair to crafters in that it does nothing but stifle demand? Why should we stick by you again? (because honestly it's starting to feel like a one way relationship here).

 

Please go back to the whiteboard run this 50k credit metric against population metrics (I'd throw out the outliers) vs. average credits. It's just to high, 36k is hard enough, 50k....sigh just wrong given the current circumstances.

 

Please rethink this

Maybe I can help.

During the guild summit they revealed this data on the characters wealth :

• [0 - 400k[ = 80%
  
• [400k -1M[ = 4%
  
• [1M - 10M[ = 15%
  
• [10M & >] = 1%
  

So roundly 16% of players might have the $1.3 millions and it would leave many of them with nothing else afterwards.

BTW the first appearance tab is... roll drums... free in LotRo and might be the same in Rift (don't remember).

ROFL, the average level 50 is lucky to have 200k credits, certainly not 10 million.

The average level 50 can pull in 200k or more by running just one day's worth of the solo, non-heroic level 50 dailies. 200k is not a lot of money at end-game.

@the post about severely undercutting

 

Or you could look at it as you're undercutting to the point where you're spending your time doing things for close to free for other players. A custom built assault cannon will take on the average 40 bronzium, 30 plastoid, 20 conductive flux, and 30 plastifiber. At an abundant mission you can get 8-9 of each scavenging material and I think 4-6 or so with investigation for each mission so you're looking at 5 missions for the bronzium, 4 for the plastoid, and lets' say 6 for the plastifiber. With that many missions you're looking at 15 to 30 minutes where you're sending out companions every couple minutes to do something after the initial four minutes peace when you start; we'll say in the time the other seller spends waiting he buys the conductive flux so I won't even include that time as he or she can't do very much else but craft anyway. For myself for the time part alone I wouldn't even consider making the product for less than 50,000 credits profit. The materials can be bought instead but if they're bought the only way there is any return at all is if the materials are selling for less than 139.5 credits per piece on the average (15,000 - trade network fees of 6%- the costs for the conductive flux). On top of that if you can sell the materials for as low as 250 credits each that's an additional 25,000 for the bronzium, plastoid, and plastifiber; if these materials sell for as low as 150 credits each that's still 15,000 credits which is equal to your selling price just for the materials and not including the time investment. Then you also have the six percent trade network fees. Personally, I'd rather make the elegant modified assault cannon as the materials are a lot more but the time investment is a lot less so I can do other things besides craft while I'm making them.

 

If your satisfaction in-game comes from doing things for other random players that's fine; I'd appreciate it just like I'd appreciate it if someone decided that instead of taking the credits for their dailies they'd rather hand them over to me instead. However, I wouldn't call the other seller an idiot if he or she believes that after crafting an item it'd be nice if a return was received that was at least equal to the money equal to what they could have earned by playing other aspects of the game besides crafting for other players. For myself, I'd just stop making them if somebody did that to me, sell something else including materials and all that means is that there's less supply on the market and less chances other players can buy something when they want to until prices go back up again.

I do the level 20 version of it, non-crit for 15k. Which is Plastoid x6, Conductive Flux x4, Bronzium x8, Plastifiber x6. After doing missions to gather mats (which I don't always have to do because I can farm a certain flashpoint for enough metal/components) It costs me just over 6k on average to make one. This is give or take some failures and I averaged it out and rounded after 10 weapons. So a 1.5x profit is more than enough even factoring the 1100 listing cost. Overshooting to 50k is greed. That's almost 10x what it costs. Now if I crit-fact one I bump it up some, but even my crit-crafts I only put up for 40k because that's still immense profit and it puts things in the hands of the player base where it belongs, not rotting on the GTN for hopefully over-inflated prices.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

 

A small confession - I started responding to the augment questions in the other thread a week before I actually finished the post. During that time, we were still discussing and testing augment costs. I can't say what they'll be when Game Update 1.3 goes live, but it will be something less than 50K.

Hope it'll not 49.990

So lets take a quick look...

• Ten thousand credits is considered to be excessively expensive as a fare from Tatooine (in the Outer Rim) to Alderaan (a Core world).
   
  
• Luke Skywalker sold his worn-out landspeeder for approximately 2000 credits,
   
  
• Jabba the Hutt was known to pay 35000 credits bounty for live delivery of one of his wookiee debtors,
   
  
• In novels, the training of a stormtrooper officer costs over half a million credits,
   
  
• C-3PO objectively values himself at 43000 credits and his constituent parts as five thousand,
  

I'm just another Star Wars fun but so guys you must review the currency and item costs.

Hope it'll not 49.990

 

So lets take a quick look...

 

• Ten thousand credits is considered to be excessively expensive as a fare from Tatooine (in the Outer Rim) to Alderaan (a Core world).
   
  
• Luke Skywalker sold his worn-out landspeeder for approximately 2000 credits,
   
  
• Jabba the Hutt was known to pay 35000 credits bounty for live delivery of one of his wookiee debtors,
   
  
• In novels, the training of a stormtrooper officer costs over half a million credits,
   
  
• C-3PO objectively values himself at 43000 credits and his constituent parts as five thousand,
  

 

I'm just another Star Wars fun but so guys you must review the currency and item costs.

Yes because economy doesn't change over thousands of years

Maybe I can help.

 

During the guild summit they revealed this data on the characters wealth :

 

• [0 - 400k[ = 80%
  
• [400k -1M[ = 4%
  
• [1M - 10M[ = 15%
  
• [10M & >] = 1%
  

 

So roundly 16% of players might have the $1.3 millions and it would leave many of them with nothing else afterwards.

 

BTW the first appearance tab is... roll drums... free in LotRo and might be the same in Rift (don't remember).

I usually don't amass wealth, personally. I get the money when I want to buy something. For example, I wanted the full suit of Legacy level 20 orange Trooper armor for my Trooper. The cost was 1.2 million. So, I simply spent the next 4 days doing Belsavis, Ilum, and Black Hole dailies, and voila, 1.2 million. Bought all 7 pieces.

Easy peasy.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

 

A small confession - I started responding to the augment questions in the other thread a week before I actually finished the post. During that time, we were still discussing and testing augment costs. I can't say what they'll be when Game Update 1.3 goes live, but it will be something less than 50K.

In short, pretty much everything is way too expensive in this game.

I do the level 20 version of it, non-crit for 15k. Which is Plastoid x6, Conductive Flux x4, Bronzium x8, Plastifiber x6. After doing missions to gather mats (which I don't always have to do because I can farm a certain flashpoint for enough metal/components) It costs me just over 6k on average to make one. This is give or take some failures and I averaged it out and rounded after 10 weapons. So a 1.5x profit is more than enough even factoring the 1100 listing cost. Overshooting to 50k is greed. That's almost 10x what it costs. Now if I crit-fact one I bump it up some, but even my crit-crafts I only put up for 40k because that's still immense profit and it puts things in the hands of the player base where it belongs, not rotting on the GTN for hopefully over-inflated prices.

Over the long run you'll get one crit success in five tries. You don't get five attempts for 6 plastoid; you get one attempt for six plastoid, etc and five attempts for 30 plastoid, 20 conductive flux, 40 bronzium, and 30 plastifiber. It'll also take him 20-30 minutes of sending out companions to make one where he could have earned 40,000 credits instead of sending out companions every minute to get a crit crafted one that fast. Unless your server is selling four normal non-augmented assault cannons for every one crit crafted cannon that sells and he's selling the crit cannons as a bonus he's pricing for what sells; augmented weapons. 50,000 as a selling price is less profit then he could have earned doing dailies for the time he spent making the weapons. He's not overcharging; he's charging for his time. If he can sell the materials for 500 each he's earning less than he could have by simply selling the materials instead. Now if you're selling non-crit weapons and just selling crit weapons as a 'hey cool, here's a bonus I didn't plan for' as they happen while you make non-augmented weapons I understand why you're charging so little but if he or she is selling augmented weapons and views the non-augmented as scrap or a I'll take whatever I can get as I'm going to vendor the non-augmented version anyway 50,000 seems pretty reasonable to me.

My point is if you want to spend your time doing things for other players that's great but he or she is just trying to make a return on their time. In the long run you're not putting things in the hands of the player base with severe undercutting; you're just getting sellers to drop out. If people get severely undercut in an MMO, they don't continue making the weapons they stop making them and drop out of the market which in the long run means periods of lowered supply and less players being able to buy the weapons until prices return to normal and the higher prices encourage more people to start supplying the weapons. If you want to spend your time equipping other players that's great, more power to you but I wouldn't call people greedy for thinking that if they spend 20-30 minutes doing something that doesn't help them in any other area of the game (ie. crafting) they should earn at least as much as somebody who spent 20-30 minutes doing something that helps them in other areas of the game (ie. dailies, flashpoints, etc).

[MMORPGs weren't invented until 1996]

 

so. my question is [which MMOs] were you playing in 1994?

I can't speak for him, but I was playing MMOs in 1994, back when they were called MUDs. In fact, GemStone IV is still alive today after 24 years.

On the topic: economy was my complaint when I unsubbed. Please, get it out of your minds that players should repeat quests ad nauseum to drive their quality-of-life benefits. You overtuned the sinks so much that most people have empty wallets until they need something, thus killing most margins of profit and with them a large potential economy.

That's good. Credit sinks in this game are way out of whack, especially for the more casual players that don't want to spend all their playtime to grind credits and want to have fun playing the game instead (of course, I get why you are in no hurry to add things that would increase having fun in the game like chat bubbles - as players don't even have time to have fun in this game due to all the credit grinding anyway! ). They need to be greatly reduced across the board (not just a little bit, but a lot!). All these credit sinks cause most players (let's face it, most players are casual players) to be constantly out of credits to a degree where playing is no longer fun. Next to the augment table, especially the repair costs, the costs for pulling out mods from gear require a serious reduction, skill costs and speeder costs, Galactic Trade Network deposit and fee costs and more need a serious reduction.

*shrug* Well, to start with, most players aren't casuals (depending on the definition ofc), just look at the official numbers given by BW/EA (playing hours per session etc). Repair costs were already brought down a lot, full repair for Rakata geared 50 is now like 25-30k. Pulling every mod out of endgame gear is around 100k. And you aren't supposed to do that every day There's so much money raining down from the sky from dailies alone that anyone prepared to put in tiny bit of effort can afford those.

There's also inflation. I'm not sure whether you don't understand it or just want to ignore it, but with the speed "new money" is brought to the game, there needs to be credit sinks as well. Otherwise we'd soon have forums full of "casuals" whining that they can't afford stuff since the prices have rocketed.

I can't speak for him, but I was playing MMOs in 1994, back when they were called MUDs. In fact, GemStone IV is still alive today after 24 years.

 

On the topic: economy was my complaint when I unsubbed. Please, get it out of your minds that players should repeat quests ad nauseum to drive their quality-of-life benefits. You overtuned the sinks so much that most people have empty wallets until they need something, thus killing most margins of profit and with them a large potential economy.

um... dont quote me, change the quote to what you want it to say, and then infer that is what i wrote. I did not write anything close to what you quoted me as saying.

ROFL, the average level 50 is lucky to have 200k credits, certainly not 10 million.

What game are you playing?

you can easily make 400k-600k PER DAY in this game at level 50.

i know and i agree, however this all changed with the anomaly of 1.2 augments. ppl can use low grade mats to make the lowest level orange gear (i forget if its 15 or 17) crit craft it stick in endgame mods and boom cheapest possible crit crafted custom gear, and all you need is grade 1 mats.

 

this is the reason for the price hike to low level mats and low level custom crit crafted gear.

 

all i'm saying is that is not inflation

There is no great abundance of low level moddable gear to be made. Oh sure, there are crappy looking chestpieces and legs - a few helmets. There are virtually no moddable bracers, boots and belts to be made though, particularly at low level.

The real augment market won't show up until post-1.3. Explosive Conflict is a bit too difficult for most players to get into right now to get the Black Hole gear that has armorings that can transfer set bonuses. Many players are stuck in the same boat that I am - they cannot transfer the mods from their Rakata gear without losing the set bonus. Thus, the augment market is not really as hopping as it could be.

That, and Bioware needs to seriously crank out some full moddable sets of gear aside from high rank PvP moddables.