http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

Right there at the bottom.

We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

 

Thanks for your feedback!

 

-- Georg

If you want to keep your combat log private, that's fine. I want the option to make mine public. I have nothing to hide. I want people to trust me, and combat logs give them the data to do so.

It's fine to feel a little put upon or even threatened by the criticism of others. People can be harsh. You paid your money, and you don't care to deal with criticism, that's fine.

But I'm the one paying MY money, and I insist on having hard data on what's going on in my group. I actively seek feedback from my teammates. If you're not interested in this kind of activity, we don't ever have to group, play, or even speak together.

I'm fine with that.

Every week, BioWare get's less vocal, and makes increasingly awful decisions

If only you could follow in their (alleged) footsteps.

Every week, BioWare get's less vocal, and makes increasingly awful decisions

And every sequel Link manages to steal your part of the Triforce and save the princess.

Personally I am mainly after a combat tab so that I can see how my damage looked, what kind of damage I took (have happened from time to time where my HP just drops 70% and I really want to know why).

Regarding a "Recount" function I really do not care either way. I do not PUG.

If only you could follow in their (alleged) footsteps.

Hope springs eternal, eh?

@The OP: While I also don't particularly mind other people seeing my combat logs, I'd rather not have a 'toggleable on to show everyone' option because that would inevitably lead to a 'toggle on or **** group' effect. 'Those who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear' is a very nice phrase to trot out, but it's not really a valid reason to introduce a tool that will result in people being forced to give up their privacy in order to take part in group play. And believe me, if the tool is there, people will try to force others to use it

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Back to wow

But I'm the one paying MY money, and I insist on having hard data on what's going on in my group.

There are already games that allow you to do that, I suggest you give their money to them instead. I'm not going to say I don't want add-ons/meters, and that they wouldn't make my job easier (I often lead PUG raids). I however see no reason to impose them onto the community just because of my own convenience.

If the community doesn't want it, it's up to BW to comply or lose subs. If they lose a couple thousand due to so-called "hardcores" who can't play without add-ons, that's better than losing a hundred thousand due to so-called "casuals" who prefer to play without, but know that they will be forced to use them if they ever try to PUG. And most casuals only ever PUG.

From a money perspective, the decision is very simple, and BW did the right thing. As for you and me, we're now a minority, in the game that is the mainstream MMO. Either live with it and play SWTOR or go back to your old games. I know I probably will once I finish all the content.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

 

Right there at the bottom.

 

 

 

If you want to keep your combat log private, that's fine. I want the option to make mine public. I have nothing to hide. I want people to trust me, and combat logs give them the data to do so.

 

It's fine to feel a little put upon or even threatened by the criticism of others. People can be harsh. You paid your money, and you don't care to deal with criticism, that's fine.

 

But I'm the one paying MY money, and I insist on having hard data on what's going on in my group. I actively seek feedback from my teammates. If you're not interested in this kind of activity, we don't ever have to group, play, or even speak together.

 

I'm fine with that.

Think you missed his point they are looking at how to provide "you" "with more detailed data on your combat performance". but not on other peoples. So you can see what attack hit you and so forth but not on the personal performance of others. So you should be happy. You can post what you did and can ask your friends what they did So I fail to see why you are upset they are looking to give you what you stated you wanted.

Hope springs eternal, eh?

 

@The OP: While I also don't particularly mind other people seeing my combat logs, I'd rather not have a 'toggleable on to show everyone' option because that would inevitably lead to a 'toggle on or **** group' effect. 'Those who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear' is a very nice phrase to trot out, but it's not really a valid reason to introduce a tool that will result in people being forced to give up their privacy in order to take part in group play. And believe me, if the tool is there, people will try to force others to use it

Nobody can force anyone to do anything in this game. If you don't like the group, you leave. A group only exists because there are at least two people who decide to play together.

Like-minded people can be found to play with, whether you care about each other's performance or not. There's no reason to stay somewhere you don't feel comfortable.

introduce a tool that will result in people being forced to give up their privacy in order to take part in group play. And believe me, if the tool is there, people will try to force others to use it

If the community doesn't want it, it's up to BW to comply or lose subs. If they lose a couple thousand due to so-called "hardcores" who can't play without add-ons, that's better than losing a hundred thousand due to so-called "casuals" who prefer to play without, but know that they will be forced to use them if they ever try to PUG. And most casuals only ever PUG.

One of these statements has to be mistaken. If the community actually wants full combat logging and a minority is trying to suppress it then statement #1 is true. If statement #2 is true then statement #1 is false. If not, then what the "hardcores" have always said about the "casuals" is true. Namely, that they want to hide in our groups for a free ride.

I like this. Combat log is needed but I don't need anyone else seeing it and I don't need to see epeener broadcasting their numbers instead of paying attention to their environment while in a FP

So you may leave a group then (or get kicked) it's still your choice to continue play with this group or not, right?

But you are cheering up force "engine" restriction, just because you know - you will end with likeminded people doing nothing but /getdown on operational bosses, since you are not able to beat them... huh... You just like to be silently carried through boss kills, as a useless bandwagon, by "e-peeners" without giving them credits for pushing buttons alot better than you... just saying...

Nobody can force anyone to do anything in this game. If you don't like the group, you leave. A group only exists because there are at least two people who decide to play together.

 

Like-minded people can be found to play with, whether you care about each other's performance or not. There's no reason to stay somewhere you don't feel comfortable.

Again, this is a nice way of thinking about it, but it boils down to being untrue in the end. Sure, nobody can reach into your settings and change it without your consent. But this post neatly summarises the situation that would be created:

Now "LFM 2*DPS ANY FP HC" guys in general chat will not ask your "GearScore", but screenshot of your "internal recount" on last bosses before inviting

So yeah, you don't 'have' to group with these people. But when these groups are the prevailing majority - which, if past experience is any guide, they will be - the options start to grow a little thin. You can keep looking for that ideal group of people who've lightened up a bit. But they'll be scarcer, harder to find, and people generally don't have all day to spend just looking for a group to even get INTO the instance in the first place.

So what do you do? Either you can cling to your privacy, and keep looking or just give up. Or you can give in to the unceasing tide of demanding people who'll castigate you if you fail to meet the arbitrary standard that they read about on the internet.

That's not a 'good situation'. The only alternative is to form a group of friends and group soley with them - in which case, you're relying on them to be around when you are, and you're limiting your social circle in a game that's supposedly 'massively multiplayer'.

Overall, not so good.

So what do you do? Either you can cling to your privacy, and keep looking or just give up. Or you can give in to the unceasing tide of demanding people who'll castigate you if you fail to meet the arbitrary standard that they read about on the internet.

But I keep being told that the *vast majority* of the community supports this.

How could the scenario you're describing occur if the great masses of people are on board with your point of view?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

 

Right there at the bottom.

 

 

 

If you want to keep your combat log private, that's fine. I want the option to make mine public. I have nothing to hide. I want people to trust me, and combat logs give them the data to do so.

 

It's fine to feel a little put upon or even threatened by the criticism of others. People can be harsh. You paid your money, and you don't care to deal with criticism, that's fine.

 

But I'm the one paying MY money, and I insist on having hard data on what's going on in my group. I actively seek feedback from my teammates. If you're not interested in this kind of activity, we don't ever have to group, play, or even speak together.

 

I'm fine with that.

Oh WELL .. since you INSIST .....

.

If not, then what the "hardcores" have always said about the "casuals" is true. Namely, that they want to hide in our groups for a free ride.

"hardcores" are just people who when they succeed at something forget the help and patience of others it took to get where they are and demand others are perfect 1st time out.

Then there's real raiders who are doing it for fun and enjoying seeing others learn as well (at least if they try to learn)

The 1st group are what give damage meters etc a bad image because of the way they use them, are fairly insular and generally the most demanding

The 2nd group tend to be the better raiders, are more inclusive of other players, don't tend to whine as much and are a lot more fun to run into in a pug because capable of using tools available to be constructive rather than destructive.

One of these statements has to be mistaken. If the community actually wants full combat logging and a minority is trying to suppress it then statement #1 is true. If statement #2 is true then statement #1 is false. If not, then what the "hardcores" have always said about the "casuals" is true. Namely, that they want to hide in our groups for a free ride.

The thing is, casuals never (at least not that I've seen) lead successful raids of any new or hard content. Hard as in not trivial to complete, rather than having a harder difficulty setting than normal. They rely on people who know their stuff to tell them what to do until they can do the raid/flashpoint blind, at which point a leader is no longer really required and anyone can run it.

One of these statements has to be mistaken. If the community actually wants full combat logging and a minority is trying to suppress it then statement #1 is true. If statement #2 is true then statement #1 is false. If not, then what the "hardcores" have always said about the "casuals" is true. Namely, that they want to hide in our groups for a free ride.

You're trying to boil it down into absolutes, which isn't possible. What 'the community' wants will never be a unified desire, because 'the community' isn't a hivemind. My /personal/ view is that Bioware should go the whole way in either direction - either introduce these meters people love so much, or don't - because dithering in the middle in an attempt to please both sides will simply create a situation of artificial choice.

Also, the links between your 'ifs' and 'thens' are a little tenuous. What if someone wants to join a group and performs at the best that they can, but doesn't want to be continuously sandpapered with numbers? Is that looking for a free ride? Your post implies that it is, but I don't really think that's true.

The thing is, casuals never (at least not that I've seen) lead successful raids of any new or hard content. Hard as in not trivial to complete, rather than having a harder difficulty setting than normal. They rely on people who know their stuff to tell them what to do until they can do the raid/flashpoint blind, at which point a leader is no longer really required and anyone can run it.

So they want us as slaves. We have to lead the raids and do the work, but we also have to play by their rules?

That sounds really fair.

Here's a thought.

If some unscrupulous trooper with a hidden combat log decides to just sit and use hammer shot ad nauseum, and claim he's doing higher dps than he is, how are the rest of us to know? Taking down a boss becomes unlikely, if not out of the question. We lose out on loot and time, and gain only repair bills.

I'm sure nobody in this thread would do something so mean, of course.

Having access to others' combat data allows us to guard ourselves from such unpleasantness. We can go about our business secure in our knowledge, and just leave that trooper be.

Here's a thought.

 

If some unscrupulous trooper with a hidden combat log decides to just sit and use hammer shot ad nauseum, and claim he's doing higher dps than he is, how are the rest of us to know? Taking down a boss becomes unlikely, if not out of the question. We lose out on loot and time, and gain only repair bills.

 

I'm sure nobody in this thread would do something so mean, of course.

 

Having access to others' combat data allows us to guard ourselves from such unpleasantness. We can go about our business secure in our knowledge, and just leave that trooper be.

But it's (apparently) his God-given right to make up a random rotation. Rolling DPS means not being held accountable for anything but the most obvious and braindead mistakes. Let the tanks and the healers do the work! I'm DPS, I'm just along for the ride!

The thing is, casuals never (at least not that I've seen) lead successful raids of any new or hard content. Hard as in not trivial to complete, rather than having a harder difficulty setting than normal. They rely on people who know their stuff to tell them what to do until they can do the raid/flashpoint blind, at which point a leader is no longer really required and anyone can run it.

You never see it because you are too busy stroking yours and your friends' epeens pretending to be something you are not.

You are one of those a-typical elitists who think that just because someone doesn't play/live for the game as hardcore as you do their gamestyle and opinion doesn't count.

@OP :

If you want to know if you are 'doing it right' fine .. private combat logs accomplish that.

If you want everyone else to know about it I'm sure you can start a blog about how UBER-LEET-TASTIC you are and your buddies will chime right in on the stroking.