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"Play Your Way" - How I would improve PVP in 6.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
"Play Your Way" - How I would improve PVP in 6.0

theJudeAbides's Avatar


theJudeAbides
09.09.2019 , 08:08 PM | #1
So, starting sometime in 4.0, I began trying out PVP and started playing even more in 5.0, to the point I'm fairly regular with it now (although I often have to take breaks when I become too frustrated/annoyed with it). I have the same gripes as many of the other people here: Too much Huttball, teammates not bothering with objectives, and unbalanced teams.

Bioware has stated that they want to give players the ability to "play the way they want to play." Too that end, I suggest the following changes:
- Break Huttball off into it's own queue. The people who love Huttball can queue for it all they want, and the people who hate it can avoid it.
- Create a queue only for unranked arenas. This would be great for new players who want to get into ranked but need to practice and hone their skills before doing so.

So now you you would have 3 unranked queues: Huttball, Capture the Objective, and Arenas.

I don't play/queue for Ranked enough to offer too much insight into that. It seems like people are mostly happy/satisfied with it as it is. Maybe add 8v8s since I've seen some people asking for that?


However, while these changes would make a lot of people happy, it wouldn't fix some of the underlying problems in PVP: primarily people ignoring objectives. I think this is largely due to how Conquest objectives and timed weekly were implemented. These need to be totally overhauled.

Timed Weekly Objectives:
- Queue for and complete one Huttball match, queue for and complete one Capture the Objective match, and queue for and complete one unranked arena match.
OR
- Queue for and complete 4 Ranked matches (solo or group)

The timed weekly should be about getting people to try out new types of game-modes, while also allowing those who already regularly complete it to get an easy "gimme." So you can either queue for all the different types of unranked matches, or queue for several ranked matches.


As for Conquest, I would get rid of all the "Do X amount of damage"/"Get X amount of Kills"/"Get X amount of medals" objectives. These objectives encourage players to play the "wrong" way. Your objectives should encourage players to play the "correct" way. Some ideas for conquest objectives:
- Score one touchdown (or whatever they're called) in a Huttball match.
- Assist a player in scoring a touchdown in a Huttball match. (Should give equal points as previous obj.)
- Capture an objective.
- Plant a bomb.
- Defend an objective for 2 un-interrupted minutes. (i.e. don't get kited away)
- Get 3 kills in a single arena match (only applies to unranked and ranked arenas)

Some of these might be too easy/hard, and the numbers could be adjusted slightly to make them more even, but you get the idea. You only earn conquest objectives by playing your game mode correctly. If you stand in the middle of Huttball and DPS, you earn no additional conquest points. If you actually try to score and win, you do.


Now, I fully recognize that there are plenty of trolls and bads out there who will continue to play badly no matter what they do, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to make things better. There are people who only PVP for the conquest points. There are people who play to win. There are people who just play for fun. There is room for all of these people in PVP, but we need to find some balance.

I don't know, they may even want to revamp the whole medal system as well to give people medals for playing the correct way. But something needs to change, and I'm trying to put forth some some ideas rather than just complaining endlessly. If you don't like my ideas, please tell me, how would you improve the current state of PVP?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
09.10.2019 , 10:26 AM | #2
Separate queues for different map-styles is a great idea for a large, healthy population. If the current population can support it, then I think your suggestion has great merit.

Personally, I think we have too many objective-heavy maps. Why can't the devs create "Death Pit" / Last-Man-Standing type of map? There could even be stealth break zones, or non-faction droids on the map that break stealth to prevent stealthing out to the end of the match.
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Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
09.10.2019 , 10:57 AM | #3
There are many suggestions that would be valid IF IF IF we had the population for it.
For example, separate queues for the plays styles such as huttball or arenas as you suggest.
I would also love to see more balance match making, so that there would be no matches where one side has more tanks/heals than the other.
Of course pitting premades versus other premades instead of randoms.
anything and everything to create the most balanced, fairest, matches possible. Thats all ive ever championed around here and somehow that makes you a pariah with this crowd, but it hasnt changed my views. I hate to use this expression but any true PvPer would only want the same thing and let skill sort it out.
But the reality is that we dont have the populous for it, so we get what we get.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.10.2019 , 11:39 AM | #4
As much as people drop matches they refuse to play in, I don't agree with the argument that we lack the population to choose our WZs. We already do that, only we got to wait in queue lines for the map to pop that we want to play.

Opting out of matches we dislike would make it easy for them to incorporate a more limited way to have choices, too.

People rather wait for a map that pops that they enjoy than wait for a map to pop they hate only to drop that and wait longer for a more enjoyable map.

I like your ideas for more specific conquest goals in PVP too.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

RookStryfe's Avatar


RookStryfe
09.10.2019 , 06:11 PM | #5
Some good ideas

I wouldn't mind seeing something like the flashpoint filter for a month as an experiment.

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
09.11.2019 , 10:02 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
As much as people drop matches they refuse to play in, I don't agree with the argument that we lack the population to choose our WZs. We already do that, only we got to wait in queue lines for the map to pop that we want to play.

Opting out of matches we dislike would make it easy for them to incorporate a more limited way to have choices, too.

People rather wait for a map that pops that they enjoy than wait for a map to pop they hate only to drop that and wait longer for a more enjoyable map.

I like your ideas for more specific conquest goals in PVP too.
Good points. It would have to be limited though so you donít have 9 maps to choose from or it might never pop.
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Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
09.12.2019 , 11:35 PM | #7
fine ideas. But if you've been around a while, you'll know that the chances of any of them being implemented is practically zero.

Separate queues for differing PVP maps is a fine idea, and it'd be great if there were a few thousand in the queue at any one time, - you could also match-make on ability as well.

But if you play for an evening and get the same old faces time and again, you can surmise that there are maybe 20-50 players in the queue. - Which if there are 2 matches and an arena going in unison it depletes the remaining queue to almost zero.

IMHO Review the medal awards, and hand out prizes to the top 10 of any 16. - Top 4 big reward, middle 8 medium award, bottom 4 small reward. Add 2 medals to backfillers for a losing side, add 1 for backfills into a winning side.

But this is BioWare - expect any significant change around 2026.
-Storm Cutter.
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theJudeAbides's Avatar


theJudeAbides
10.03.2019 , 08:43 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Storm-Cutter View Post
fine ideas. But if you've been around a while, you'll know that the chances of any of them being implemented is practically zero.
It's easy to become jaded with this game and just give up hope than any meaningful/significant changes will ever occur, but then why even bother posting on these forums?

Whether it be separate queues or a whitelist of maps you want to play, I think something that allows you to play the types of zones you want to play would be appreciated by the whole PVP community and would make PVP more inviting to newcomers.

One thing I forgot to mention in the original post that really bugs me about PVP is how the daily/weekly missions work. Only getting 1 point for losing while winners get 2 points has always, and will always feel completely unfair and arbitrary. We all know matchmaking is completely broken. You could be the best PVPer in the game, focusing on objectives and playing to win, but if you're stuck with a bunch of bads, you're NOT going to win. Conversely, you could be the derpiest bad PVPer in the game, but get grouped up with a premade and get carried to victory.

And ranked is even worse. 5 points for winning vs 1 for a loss? Holy crap. I get you're trying to punish win-trading/losing on purpose, but my god, there has to be a better way. I was trying to get into ranked, but suffering through 50 losses a week is NOT fun, even though I'm trying my hardest to win. Maybe tie points gained to your medals? e.g. you get one point for participating and another point for getting over 8 medals (may need to lower that slightly for arenas)? I know it's not perfect since medals != properly playing, but you would at least have to put forth some kind of effort to get that extra point. This way, people would still be encouraged to keep trying even a warzone is going badly against them. Tie this in with a re-vamp of the medals system and you could really have something here. It's hell of a lot better than banging your head against premades in warzones, anyways.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
10.04.2019 , 07:33 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by theJudeAbides View Post
And ranked is even worse. 5 points for winning vs 1 for a loss? Holy crap. I get you're trying to punish win-trading/losing on purpose, but my god, there has to be a better way.
The 5 for wins/1 for losses isn't why people cheat/wintrade, they don't care at all about how many points you get for a win or a loss tbh. They cheat for ELO.

By making a loss hurt ELO so much, this has caused the immense influx of wintrading; deliberately dropping a match to cause a loss on one side while the other gets the win.

The 5/1 ratio is just a misguided way by BW to try to incentivize winning, but it doesn't impact ranked player effort in most cases at all because people are more concerned about their ELO and it's a separate issue regarding wintrading imo.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
10.04.2019 , 09:37 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
The 5/1 ratio is just a misguided way by BW to try to incentivize winning, but it doesn't impact ranked player effort in most cases at all because people are more concerned about their ELO and it's a separate issue regarding wintrading imo.
You're sort of right, but you're missing a benefit of the 5/1 ratio: it greatly discouraged mat farmers. Now if you want to farm mats, you have to lose 50 times, which is a much greater time investment. We don't want people playing ranked that just come in to lose and get mats. Those people are selfish ******es that ruin games for their own benefit. It's fine if your primary motivation is to get mats, but only if you can actually play ranked. You'll win some games and get them that much faster.