What can someone do with Force Lightning that can't already be achieved through normal Force telekinesis?

For example, if a person wanted to destroy a person or droid, they could use Force Crush in lieu of Force Lightning. For torture, Force Choke would be a sufficient substitute.

I struggle to see the advantage of Force Lightning other than looking really cool.

It's infinitely easier to use FL on a powerful person than Force Crush or Force Choke. For the later two you have to be a lot more powerful than your opponent to breach their defenses.

Look at the Starkiller vs Vader duel for example, Starkiller subdued Vader with Force Lightning after a long duel (and no, Vader is not susceptible to it), yet he could never even dream of Choking Vader out.

Same in the Anakin vs Dooku duel, Dooku could stun and send Anakin flying with Lightning, yet he could never manage even lifiting him up like he did with Kenobi. Anakin was just that powerful.

In short: Lightning does way more damage for the energy it requires than Choke or Crush.

Thankfully Starkiller is no longer canon. While I have mixed feelings about much of the EU being nuked, I'm not sad to see that lore-breaking Mary Sue go.

I don't necessarily disagree with force lighting being a more difficult ability to defend against than force choke, though. It is also an exclusively dark side ability, unlike telekinesis or force choke*, both of which don't really have a force alignment and depend on how they are used. We see both Sith and Jedi use telekinesis and Luke used force choke on a Gamorrean in Return of the Jedi.

*Some of the EU tried to make force choke a dark side ability as well, but that never made much sense, and was always a bit out of step with the films.

Thankfully Starkiller is no longer canon. While I have mixed feelings about much of the EU being nuked, I'm not sad to see that lore-breaking Mary Sue go.

How is he lore-breaking exactly? He's a Vader or Revan level force user, not like the ridiculous Vitiate.

You don't like him? Fine, but keep your biased ******** out of it.

How is he lore-breaking exactly? He's a Vader or Revan level force user, not like the ridiculous Vitiate.

 

You don't like him? Fine, but keep your biased ******** out of it.

I'm not any more 'biased' than people who are fans of the character. Complaints about bias in conversations where two or more people are voicing opinions, is just the equivalent of the person complaining saying, "Stop disliking something I like," or vice versa.

Starkiller was lore-breaking in that his story retconned some previously established canon, like how the Rebel Alliance came about it. They also gave him some ridiculous powers in the game, like bringing down a Star Destroyer with his mind, which made him seem overpowered compared to the Emperor or Vader. The latter isn't necessarily lore-breaking, but it did make him a Mary Sue. It was an obvious case of the writers trying to up the ante by making their character more awesomely awesome than the characters from the films.

Fun game, but utter ***** from a story perspective.

I'm not any more 'biased' than people who are fans of the character. Complaints about bias in conversations where two or more people are voicing opinions, is just the equivalent of the person complaining saying, "Stop disliking something I like," or vice versa.

 

Starkiller was lore-breaking in that his story retconned some previously established canon, like how the Rebel Alliance came about it. They also gave him some ridiculous powers in the game, like bringing down a Star Destroyer with his mind, which made him seem overpowered compared to the Emperor or Vader. The latter isn't necessarily lore-breaking, but it did make him a Mary Sue. It was an obvious case of the writers trying to up the ante by making their character more awesomely awesome than the characters from the films.

 

Fun game, but utter ***** from a story perspective.

He didn't bring down the SD, merely he guided it, the SD was already falling, he just angled it in such a way to have it crash down better.

He also wasn't really overpowered compared to either of the two, Darkside cutscene has Palpatine kicking his **** in. With Vader, Galen had to go on a lengthy fight and throw an enormous generator on him before he was finally taken out.

I'm not any more 'biased' than people who are fans of the character. Complaints about bias in conversations where two or more people are voicing opinions, is just the equivalent of the person complaining saying, "Stop disliking something I like," or vice versa.

I said you can dislike him to your heart's content, what I do mind is throwing around biased, baseless phrases like Mary Sue and lore-breaking. He is neither.

Starkiller was lore-breaking in that his story retconned some previously established canon, like how the Rebel Alliance came about it. They also gave him some ridiculous powers in the game, like bringing down a Star Destroyer with his mind, which made him seem overpowered compared to the Emperor or Vader. The latter isn't necessarily lore-breaking, but it did make him a Mary Sue. It was an obvious case of the writers trying to up the ante by making their character more awesomely awesome than the characters from the films.

He was still only a Vader level force user, so his Star Destroyer feat doesn't change anything. Sidious can destroy entire fleets, TKing a single SD is child's play.

Also Lucas was heavily involved in the making of TFU, so he can retcon his story all he wants. It's not like TFU is the first or only instance of retcon.

I'm not any more 'biased' than people who are fans of the character. Complaints about bias in conversations where two or more people are voicing opinions, is just the equivalent of the person complaining saying, "Stop disliking something I like," or vice versa.

 

Starkiller was lore-breaking in that his story retconned some previously established canon, like how the Rebel Alliance came about it. They also gave him some ridiculous powers in the game, like bringing down a Star Destroyer with his mind, which made him seem overpowered compared to the Emperor or Vader. The latter isn't necessarily lore-breaking, but it did make him a Mary Sue. It was an obvious case of the writers trying to up the ante by making their character more awesomely awesome than the characters from the films.

 

Fun game, but utter ***** from a story perspective.

This game is as Canon as Galen Marek. In other words.. in the eyes of Disney this game is not Canon. Force Choke even in the EU is considered a mostly grey power but is often used in a dark sided manner. That being said as mentioned Galen isn't that powerful and since Galen is EU? I don't see how you think he's more overpowered than Sidious. Sidious who created wormholes capable of destroying planets and fleets. Then you play this game with a disembodied Sith Lord spirit who is over a thousand years old eating planets like some Cthulian horror.

Plus you know those giant AT-AT's? You know, those big camel things? Vader lifted one off the ground and began tearing it apart with one hand alone using the force. Vader.. was on Marek's level. Lucas stated he really liked the concept of force unleashed and the characters. Lucas has also stated his disdain for the EU. This means if you had asked Lucas TFU was probably closer to what he thinks than most of the EU. People forget Vader doesn't seem all that much in the old trilogy due to it being made so long ago. If he remade the original movies (Please no one do this.) you'd bet he'd make Vader a beast.

they made starkiller powerful for a reason, gameplay mechanics, because nobody wants to stay regulated to jedi knight skill level (which is realistically the highest he shouldve been) I could see him besting vader but not sidious.

But yeah I agree with the other guy, very mary sue, one of the EU stories im glad was retconned.

they made starkiller powerful for a reason, gameplay mechanics, because nobody wants to stay regulated to jedi knight skill level (which is realistically the highest he shouldve been) I could see him besting vader but not sidious.

 

But yeah I agree with the other guy, very mary sue, one of the EU stories im glad was retconned.

He didn't beat Sidious. Sidious killed him.

He didn't beat Sidious. Sidious killed him.

No I don't see it that way, General kota prevented Galen from killing Sidious so that he wouldn't fall to the dark side. A common mistake among light side force users (in the movies anyway)

Shouldn't have been given that chance to begin with.

No I don't see it that way, General kota prevented Galen from killing Sidious so that he wouldn't fall to the dark side. A common mistake among light side force users (in the movies anyway)

 

Shouldn't have been given that chance to begin with.

Sidious was trying to tempt him. While it's non-canonical in the game if you try to kill Sidious and turn to the dark side Galen loses anyway. While it's an "alternate scenario" it goes to show what the writers think if he does try to slay palpatine. The novel is different. In the novel he never stood a chance. The novel was more canon than the game. In the end Galen was in the same position as Yoda. In the end he was trying to hold back Sidious lightning. Sidious closed on him and an explosion happened. Versus Yoda? Sidious and Yoda both flew backwards. Marek DIED.

I'm more curious how is it different from ordinary electricity. Becouse, you know, simple isolating layer in armor will make it retardedly easy to resist.

It's force energy. That's why. So it's not quite normal electricity. That being said Vader did make changes to his armor to resist it better but some force users lightning is very powerful. Sidious lightning was so powerful he could turn even dark side acolytes into ashes. Insulation wouldn't protect against that kind of heat.

It's energy. That's why. So it's not quite normal electricity.

Electricity is energy... Lightning is the plasma created by the electricity, being heated by the passage of the electricity from point A (the Darksider/Sith using the ability) to point B (whatever the target is).

Electricity is energy...

Meant to say Force Energy. So thank you for that but as noted. Electricity doesn't usually turn people to ashes. Also there doesn't seem to be the after effects that electricity has on people that are shocked for prolonged periods of time.

Electricity doesn't usually turn people to ashes.

Think of electrical burns from electrical current. Increase the current and exposure to it, and you'll get ashes.

Also there doesn't seem to be the after effects that electricity has on people that are shocked for prolonged periods of time.

Luke looked pretty unable to control his convulsing body when the Emperor was continually shocking him with lightning...

Plus lightning is plasma created by the passage of electricity through the air - the air where the electricity passed is superheated, and thunder is basically the explosive shockwave of the plasma.

Think of electrical burns from electrical current. Increase the current and exposure to it, and you'll get ashes.

 

 

 

Luke looked pretty unable to control his convulsing body when the Emperor was continually shocking him with lightning...

 

Plus lightning is plasma created by the passage of electricity through the air - the air where the electricity passed is superheated, and thunder is basically the explosive shockwave of the plasma.

Yeah he did convulse but do you see how quickly he recovered once Palpatine was picked up?

Yeah he did convulse but do you see how quickly he recovered once Palpatine was picked up?

I'm sure there's all sorts of excuses such as "Palpatine was only torturing him before killing hit" etc etc, but it pretty much comes down to "movie magic", in much the same way as Lightsabers themselves having a plasma blade that matter is incapable of passing through, and doesn't roast the flesh of the wielder as it should, regardless of any "electromagnetic containment field".

Saying that though, in the now Legends book of The Truce at Bakura, the Lightning had left him injured with potentially lethal side effects if he'd gone without medical treatment.

Those who think Galen is a Mary Sue should read the book, but I guess that's too much to ask.

Pretty much.

It's so much easier to ride the Hate Train than it is to use your brain for a couple of hours.

I'm sure there's all sorts of excuses such as "Palpatine was only torturing him before killing hit" etc etc, but it pretty much comes down to "movie magic", in much the same way as Lightsabers themselves having a plasma blade that matter is incapable of passing through, and doesn't roast the flesh of the wielder as it should, regardless of any "electromagnetic containment field".

Saying that though, in the now Legends book of The Truce at Bakura, the Lightning had left him injured with potentially lethal side effects if he'd gone without medical treatment.

 

 

 

Pretty much.

It's so much easier to ride the Hate Train than it is to use your brain for a couple of hours.

Good catch Fyurii.

How is he lore-breaking exactly? He's a Vader or Revan level force user, not like the ridiculous Vitiate.

 

You don't like him? Fine, but keep your biased ******** out of it.

My opinion is no more 'biased' than yours. What does that even mean, anyway? Learn to accept that sometimes people have different opinions, and there is no reason to get bent by it, particularly when those opinions are being voiced about a fictional universe.

I explained how Marek was lore-breaking already. The games' writers introduced a retcon on how the Rebel Alliance was formed, just to make their pet more special. They had no respect for the work of other writers in the series who came before them.

Malek is a Sue in that he's given a ridiculously impressive list of accomplishments that exceeds the characters of the film trilogy the game was trying to capitalize on. He masters both sides of the force, steals Vader's thunder in finishing off the Jedi, defeats Vader, was on his way to defeating the Emperor, brings down a Star Destroyer with his mind and inspires the creation of the Rebel Alliance. In non-canon paths that are nevertheless there to demonstrate how awesome Malek is supposed to be, he also kills Obi Wan, defeats Luke Skywalker, and succeeds where the Emperor fails, by turning Luke to the Dark Side.

The level of Sue is just too damned high!

Thankfully Malek got annihilated as thoroughly from the canon as Alderaan did by the Death Star.

Those who think Galen is a Mary Sue should read the book, but I guess that's too much to ask.

Why should anyone who disliked Malek in the game bother to read a book about him? It would be a pointless waste of money, not just because he is no longer part of the canon, but because they're unlikely to get any entertainment from a book with a central character they dislike. Unless the book retcons the events of the game, what purpose would that serve?

My opinion is no more 'biased' than yours. What does that even mean, anyway? Learn to accept that sometimes people have different opinions, and there is no reason to get bent by it, particularly when those opinions are being voiced about a fictional universe.

 

I explained how Marek was lore-breaking already. The games' writers introduced a retcon on how the Rebel Alliance was formed, just to make their pet more special. They had no respect for the work of other writers in the series who came before them.

 

Thankfully Malek got annihilated as thoroughly from the canon as Alderaan did by the Death Star.

Sigh..........

I guess you can't read. TFU was made by Lucas. You know, the guy who made Star Wars in the first place...

Anyhow retcon =/= lore-breaking.

My opinion is no more 'biased' than yours. What does that even mean, anyway? Learn to accept that sometimes people have different opinions, and there is no reason to get bent by it, particularly when those opinions are being voiced about a fictional universe.

 

I explained how Marek was lore-breaking already. The games' writers introduced a retcon on how the Rebel Alliance was formed, just to make their pet more special. They had no respect for the work of other writers in the series who came before them.

 

Malek is a Sue in that he's given a ridiculously impressive list of accomplishments that exceeds the characters of the film trilogy the game was trying to capitalize on. He masters both sides of the force, steals Vader's thunder in finishing off the Jedi, defeats Vader, was on his way to defeating the Emperor, brings down a Star Destroyer with his mind and inspires the creation of the Rebel Alliance. In non-canon paths that are nevertheless there to demonstrate how awesome Malek is supposed to be, he also kills Obi Wan, defeats Luke Skywalker, and succeeds where the Emperor fails, by turning Luke to the Dark Side.

 

The level of Sue is just too damned high!

 

Thankfully Malek got annihilated as thoroughly from the canon as Alderaan did by the Death Star.

 

 

 

Why should anyone who disliked Malek in the game bother to read a book about him? It would be a pointless waste of money, not just because he is no longer part of the canon, but because they're unlikely to get any entertainment from a book with a central character they dislike. Unless the book retcons the events of the game, what purpose would that serve?

He wasn't on his way of beating Sidious. He was crushed by Sidious. Read the book. It's different from the game in many aspects. The him defeating luke, obiwan, etc. That was never Canon. That was a "What if" scenario. Marvel does these, DC does these, it isn't the first time these are done. It's for fun and not to be taken seriously. Yes he defeated Vader but believe me. Vader wasn't in his prime at that point. Something Zoltan and I contested on numerous occasions. Vader is a lot more powerful by FU2 and only got stronger since then. Even then Vader and Marek were not on palpatine's level.

You make him out to be a mary sue but what about Vitiate eating worlds? Nihilus eating worlds? Naga Sadow using a crystal/meditation sphere to create super novas? How about Sidious annihilating entire star fleets with wormholes? Does Mary Sue now mean "As powerful as Vader?" Sidious put him down like nobodies business. Why is he a mary sue? Also most Mary Sue's can't die and have plot protection. Marek was a prodigy but in the end he was smashed.

Sigh..........

 

I guess you can't read. TFU was made by Lucas. You know, the guy who made Star Wars in the first place...

 

Anyhow retcon =/= lore-breaking.

TFU was not made by Lucas. Lucas contributed some ideas to it and was involved in the process of the game's development, but he was not the games' writer.

He probably isn't the best person to name drop either, considering he played fast and loose with his own established canon, and is on record stating that anything Expanded Universe was never more than fanfiction for him. He only ever considered the events of the two film trilogies to be part of the official canon.

He wasn't on his way of beating Sidious. He was crushed by Sidious. Read the book. It's different from the game in many aspects. The him defeating luke, obiwan, etc. That was never Canon. That was a "What if" scenario. Marvel does these, DC does these, it isn't the first time these are done. It's for fun and not to be taken seriously. Yes he defeated Vader but believe me. Vader wasn't in his prime at that point. Something Zoltan and I contested on numerous occasions. Vader is a lot more powerful by FU2 and only got stronger since then. Even then Vader and Marek were not on palpatine's level.

 

You make him out to be a mary sue but what about Vitiate eating worlds? Nihilus eating worlds? Naga Sadow using a crystal/meditation sphere to create super novas? How about Sidious annihilating entire star fleets with wormholes? Does Mary Sue now mean "As powerful as Vader?" Sidious put him down like nobodies business. Why is he a mary sue? Also most Mary Sue's can't die and have plot protection. Marek was a prodigy but in the end he was smashed.

 

If Malek wasn't intended to be on his way to defeating Palpatine, it wasn't portrayed well in the game itself.

I'm not a fan of Malek's 'what ifs' because it, along with much of the previously canon elements of the game, set him up to be a more powerful force user than just about every other force user in the film trilogy. Even if the book clarifies the confrontation with Palpatine, he still defeated Vader, several Jedi Council members from the prequel films, and in a non-canon path also Obi Wan and Luke Skywalker.

Perhaps Mary Sue isn't the correct term to use, but he was a writer's pet. He was being written in a way to make him more impressive than just about all of the characters of the film trilogy the game was based on. It also goes a step beyond that by giving him a role in the foundation of the Rebel Alliance, retconning previous lore in order to give Malek an extra level of special. It reeks of bad fanfiction.

While Vitiate suffers from the same problem of writers continually trying to up the ante by making their villains or heroes more impressive than those created by other writers in the same series, I'm willing to give SWTOR's writers more of a pass than TFU's devs because for all SWTOR's flaws, it doesn't monkey around with film canon or diminish film characters. The Bioware devs at least set their game in a timeline where none of their characters would be demonstrating how awesome they are by diminishing film characters through The Worf Effect.