This is a complaint about Soa on Nightmare mode.

 

This fight is currently impossible to do on either 8 or 16 man. Completely impossible. Irae AoD's kill (source) was actually tuned on Hardmode and for me Hardmode difficulty is fine. Infact it's tuned to be excellent on hardmode. The problem is specifically Nightmare mode.

 

Below is hard mathematics using the real values of Mind Traps on Nightmare mode, the ability CDs as well as the health of Soa, the Infernal One. Nerds beware.

 

The problem I'm talking about are the absolutely impossible DPS requirements necessary to kill the Mind Traps in phase 3. On 8 man Nightmare the Mind Traps have 220,000 health and have a 20 second timer between (18 sec cd + 2 sec cast on Soa). Assuming a standard Nightmare mode setup: 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 DPS:

 

220,000 / 20 (CD) = 11,000 group DPS over 20 seconds.

11,000 / 5 (number of DPS) = 2200

= 2200 DPS sustained for 20 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

The following numbers assume a DPS is never trapped - assuming a DPS is trapped:

 

220,000 / 20 (CD) = 11,000 group DPS over 20 seconds.

11,000 / 4 (number of DPS) = 2750

= 2750 DPS sustained for 20 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Considering there are ALWAYS two times when a Mind Trap and Recovery phase interlink (ie: the recovery phase will occur as a Mind Trap has been spawned). This means for the 10 second period of Recovery (where Soa needs to be DPSd as you have 4 Recovery phases before enrage) you would need to kill the Mind Trap within 10 seconds before the next spawns:

 

220,000 / 10 (CD) = 22,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

22,000 / 5 (number of DPS) = 4400

= 4400 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

The following numbers assume a DPS is never trapped - assuming a DPS is trapped:

 

220,000 / 10 (CD) = 22,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

22,000 / 4 (number of DPS) = 5500

= 5500 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Now, we move onto the DPS requirements to beat Soa before/during the 4th Recovery (Soa enrages 5 seconds before the 4th Recovery phase). This means you have 40 seconds maximum to deal 450,000 damage in 40 seconds:

 

450,000 / 40 = 11,250 group DPS over 40 seconds

11,250 / 5 = 2250

= 2250 DPS sustained for 4 x 10 second periods in order to "do your part".

 

Now, because of the Mind Trap mechanic we should assume the worst - a DPS is trapped during 2 of the 4 Recovery phases:

 

450,000 / 40 = 11,250 group DPS over 40 secons

11,250 / 4.5 = 2500

= 2500 DPS sustained for 4 x 10 second periods in order to compensate for the Mind Trap mechanic.

 

If we use the same maths for 16 man (note: in 16 man the boss has x 2 hp and Mind Traps have their CD cut in half so the same DPS would be needed assuming 2 tanks, 4 healers and 10 DPS - however - for this mathematical examination we will use 1 tank and 2 healers (thus 13 DPS):

 

220,000 / 10 (CD) = 22,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

22,000 / 13 (number of DPS) = 1692.3

= 1692.3 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

The following numbers assume a DPS is never trapped - assuming a DPS is trapped:

 

220,000 / 10 (CD) = 22,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

22,000 / 12 (number of DPS) = 1833.3

= 1833.3 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Now the Mind Trap and Recovery mechanic happens on, again, 2 of the 4 Recovery phases so a raid group would ignore the Mind Trap > DPS Soa > Kill the Mind Trap as another one spawns requiring 440,000 damage from the 13 DPS over 10 seconds to stop getting overwhelmed.

 

440,000 / 10 (CD) = 44,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

44,000 / 13 (number of DPS) = 3384.6

= 3384.6 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Assuming 1 DPS is trapped:

 

440,000 / 10 (CD) = 44,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

44,000 / 12 (number of DPS) = 3666.6

= 3666.6 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Assuming 2 DPS are trapped:

 

440,000 / 10 (CD) = 44,000 group DPS over 10 seconds.

44,000 / 11 (number of DPS) = 4400

= 4400 DPS sustained for 10 seconds in order to kill a Mind Trap before another spawns.

 

Now because Soa has just double the health from Nightmare mode on 8 man, that's 900,000 health in 40 seconds.

 

900,000 / 40 = 22,500 group DPS over 40 seconds

22,500 / 13 = 1730.7

= 1730.7 DPS sustained for 4 x 10 second periods in order to "do your part".

 

--------------------------------------

 

I'm all for hard encounters. I enjoy hard encounters. However encounters which are mathematically impossible are not. This is just punishing for people who want to strive for world firsts. The numbers posted are simply impossible to achieve. Simply impossible. It wouldn't matter if we had addons to tell us our optimal DPS rotation, or addons to tell us the exact milisecond a Mind Trap spawned, or damage meters and combat logs. These numbers are just unrealistic to meet and it's a bloody disappointment.

 

Soa was fun on hardmode, on Nightmare mode it's not hard. It's not easy. It's impossible - which isn't fun, engaging or exciting. Note: I complained about the exact same thing when C'thun was impossible to beat.

Bump. Issue needs addressing as it's not addressed in 1.1. >_<

Ouch, those numbers do seem a bit... impossible to achieve.

 

I hope this gets looked at. Good luck with it in the future.

Imagine it another way. If you've done Nightmare Duel of Fates (otherwise Infernal Council) you'll know the Marauders (high hp mobs) have 111,000~ health. The timer is 2 minutes:

 

110,000 / 120 = 916.666

 

In my gear (I DPSd it this week, in full healing gear) I killed it in 92 seconds:

 

110,000 / 92 = 1195.65

 

To reach the individual DPS targets I would need to kill my 110,000 hp target in:

 

110,000 / 2200 = 50 seconds.

 

50 seconds!? Not possible.

Yeah, seems like they just said "give everything more health" and slapped a new label on it.

 

That's pretty lame.

 

I personally haven't started endgame content yet (still leveling, actually, and taking my sweet time), but in previous MMOs I was always in endgame guilds doing hardmodes, heroics, etc. so I'll probably end up doing the same thing in TOR.

 

Encounters with impossible/ridiculous expectations aren't enjoyable at all. Hopefully they look into this and get things re-tuned quickly.

Edited January 8, 2012 by JHarkrider

Well you can't even attempt it. It's pretty pointless to attempt at the moment.

I have to assume that you've been playing other MMOs in the past, that have been in line with bleeding edge content.

 

So I also have to assume you recognize a gear check encounter when you see one.

 

This is one of those. Those numbers shouldn't be impossible if everyone is wearing optimal gear with optimal specs and optimal mods/armoring, etc.

I have to assume that you've been playing other MMOs in the past, that have been in line with bleeding edge content.

 

So I also have to assume you recognize a gear check encounter when you see one.

 

This is one of those. Those numbers shouldn't be impossible if everyone is wearing optimal gear with optimal specs and optimal mods/armoring, etc.

 

We have optimal gear. Our best geared DPS killed his 110,000~ hp add on Duel of Fates (infernal council) in 73 seconds. Nowhere near the DPS needed to be able to kill these Mind Traps in time.

 

Please, don't post about stuff you really have 0 clue about. This encounter is just impossible at the moment. There's no other way around it.

I'm curious, (I'm not discrediting what you say in any situation) but your best dps, what class and what gear (can you be specific)?

 

We've just hoping to clean up Hard mode tonight as a guild, we've got a little bit of rakata (140 rating gear) but overwhelmingly we are wearing 136 gear or worse.

 

It's only a supposition but potentially to complete nightmare the majority of the players will need full 140 (or as near as possible) ?

More encounters soley reliable on gear, this games really exciting!

Yeah...it's not a gear check. We noticed the same thing yesterday. Considering the hp on mindtraps in Hard is roughly 24-25k, jumping them up to over 240k is ridiculous. Personally I think someone programmed in a few extra 0s. >.> Currently, there is no feasible way to do it that we know of. Anyone thinking it's a gear check hasn't tried it since it got fixed Wednesday.

Really? 3 weeks after start you said that something is impossible, please if noone kill him through let's say 6 months, then i could aggree that something is wrong. In EQ2 some raids have 8-months progress to world first, geez guys... i know that everyone now are casuals but I didn't know that so

For the love of God. Thing was fixed a week ago and you're already complaining and spewing out maths to say it's impossible, especially when you don't even have a dps meter to know for sure how well certain people are performing? Give me a break. At the very least give it a month. If you're entire raid is decked out in Rakata gear, and you've tried different comps and dps out to make sure it's not just poor performance, THEN come back and inquire about the fight.

I'm enjoying the people criticizing the OP who clearly don't know what they are talking about. Adding a few points of Aim or 20 points to base weapon dps isn't going to make up for the 2x dps increase requires. This is obviously a situation of the deva NOT play testing something and just slapping stats. Kind of like how foundry/BP is unbeatable by a group whose progression matches their difficulty.

There are some hard mode fights that seem impossible at the moment, some depending on what class tanks it. Either because the maths are wrong for the fight or they are just bugged.

 

The bonus boss in hard more BT is an example. Even if you interrupt his knockback it still lands, but he will only use it on melee so if you range tank him its easy. Similar thing with one of the bosses in directive 7.

Edited January 8, 2012 by NasherUK

Hi guys !

 

We are currently progressing on Soa Nightmare and HM in 8 and 16 players mode, and we agree with this post.

 

There is not really much point even pulling the boss in its current state, tho 4/5 Nightmare is definetly doable, and so Soa HM is.

 

On another note, Bonetrasher Nightmare is also quite "funny", cleave oneshotting 136 geared marauder, and the jump damaging the whole raid for 15-17k.

 

Just have to hope everything will get fixed with 1.1 and next tiers.

 

TDLR: Agreed, impossible in its current state. Dumb hotfix, let's wait for 1.1

There are plenty of bugs in this game, I won't debate that at all. However, almost all of them, once discovered, can be prevented or don't even happen unless you do something strange to begin with.

 

I also have no idea what bugs you are referring to in D7 or BT, because I've done both of those with non ranged tanks and never had any issues.

More encounters soley reliable on gear, this games really exciting!

 

Its not gear it's just hilariously overtuned. This is "someone accidently tacked an extra 0 on" level of overtuned.

isnt the OP the same nerd who complained raids are too ez? lol

you´ve done your work better as the ppl @bioware... really they need some ppl with more skill to design encounters.

German Gild Irae AOD Contend Clear Nightmare 8man tow weeks ago

German Gild Irae AOD Contend Clear Nightmare 8man tow weeks ago

 

This was before nightmare mode really existed.

Contend clear Nightmare 8man 01.01.2012 Irae AOD Germany

Contend clear Nightmare 8man 01.01.2012 Irae AOD Germany

 

it was a bug, it was actually hard mode they fought. (was fixed last patch).

 

 

anyone who has seen the new nightmare mode, and can read this basic maths can tell straight off its broken.

 

and for people reading it and thinking its just a quick burst damage.... he throws mind traps out 1 after another (theres always going to be 1 up) so you cant just use CDs to burst it down, its got to be 2.2k SUSTAINED dps, which is impossible even if you had full rakata gear and BiS everything, using the best rotation (well, best you can figure out without a combat log).

 

im starting to think its going the way of wow, where they make it so stupidly overtuned that no one can do it, then nerf it and have all the raiding guilds clear it the same night as the patch.

it was a bug, it was actually hard mode they fought. (was fixed last patch).

 

 

anyone who has seen the new nightmare mode, and can read this basic maths can tell straight off its broken.

 

and for people reading it and thinking its just a quick burst damage.... he throws mind traps out 1 after another (theres always going to be 1 up) so you cant just use CDs to burst it down, its got to be 2.2k SUSTAINED dps, which is impossible even if you had full rakata gear and BiS everything, using the best rotation (well, best you can figure out without a combat log).

 

im starting to think its going the way of wow, where they make it so stupidly overtuned that no one can do it, then nerf it and have all the raiding guilds clear it the same night as the patch.

 

Yeah its really bad. Nobody even mentions either that not only can you get unlucky and get a DPS trapped but he can pick one up and toss them around at the same time. -2 DPS good luck ever catching back up with that.