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Well, with PTS shutting down, the gearing of doom is UPON US.....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Well, with PTS shutting down, the gearing of doom is UPON US.....

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
10.11.2019 , 04:09 PM | #1
In all seriousness, I ran about 5 flashpoints and 1 warzone last night and got a real feel for the gearing system.

It's....different.

Think of gearing now more like a journey rather than a destination. I honestly don't think it is meant anymore to be a "grind" - rather, something you just get here and there and can passively fiddle with until one day, you wake up and "oh wow, my gear is pretty good now!"

Looking at it, I can tell you what the preferred path is for gearing in the game now:

Other than for weapons, don't bother with custom armor unless its for image designer looks. The whole game is made now to favor those who DON'T modify their equipment. Most of the equipment you get will NOT have armorings, mods, enhancements, barrels or hilts you can rip out of it.

Because of this, you can also completely ignore amplifiers and set bonuses until you have your end-game armor anyway. Reason being, set bonuses feel pointless because the game just tosses new whole gear you can't pull mods out of to replace it. It feels like set bonuses are now intended to be at the end of the journey, not all along.

Amplifiers certainly are useful, and if you want to make a "crafting set" of armor, that can be good, but anything combat oriented is a complete waste of credits thanks to the rate you get new equipment and the uncapped credit increased costs per roll - a cap of 50k credits per roll would have made a lot of sense here.

That being said, it isn't impossible to gear if you use a suit with mods in it - just be prepared for a longer path.

To sum up the 2 paths:

Path 1:

Gear with whatever you get, using the appearance tab for looks. Don't bother to work with mods - just grab gear as you get it, and replace it as soon as you get better until you get to endgame. Once in endgame, then finally invest in amplifiers, set bonus armor, and even wait until this point for augments, as you will be switching out armor like nuts until you get to around armor rating 304 or so.

Path 2:

You will get the occasional piece of gear you can rip mods out of, but not nearly as frequently as the other gear. Rip out what you need as needed. Use any scavenged tech parts to pick up mods from the Spoils of War vendor on fleet. Pretty much otherwise the same recommendations as above, but because you will get a lot you can't use, the process will be slower.



So I know I joked about this being the gearing of doom. Its not 100% awful if you gear with path 1. Getting to endgame is going to be a slog, and I found that it likely will be a lot more enjoyable to treat gear as a journery rather than a destination for now, because most content can be run with green level gear without issue.

That last line is what saves this system from being a complete trainwreck. And as I said a month ago in PTS - there are some good bones here. I think if they re-evaluate some of their gearing decisions, and make it more fun for people who like to use mods instead of just gear as a whole, and put a credit cap limit on how expensive amplifiers can get that is REASONABLE, then I think we may have something pretty decent here. Maybe even if there was a way to transfer amplifiers we want from one piece to another would be a huge help, because that alone would also make grabbing set bonuses earlier than end-game worth it, in conjunction with easier ability to get modifications.

I think we all expected the gearing to be a finished product by the time Onslaught hit. But really, I think this is going to be something that is just the beginning. There are things worth saving here - ideas that are good but perhaps implemented in a poor way, that can be fixed and the game ends up with something better than we think right now.

But its got a long way to go. We're going to find out just how much the developers really listen to the players when this thing hits live - do they stick completely to their guns? Or will they start making those needed adjustments in the aftermath?

Templock's Avatar


Templock
10.11.2019 , 04:51 PM | #2
Wow, someone on these forums finally gets it.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.11.2019 , 05:37 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
In all seriousness, I ran about 5 flashpoints and 1 warzone last night and got a real feel for the gearing system.

It's....different.

Think of gearing now more like a journey rather than a destination. I honestly don't think it is meant anymore to be a "grind" - rather, something you just get here and there and can passively fiddle with until one day, you wake up and "oh wow, my gear is pretty good now!"

Looking at it, I can tell you what the preferred path is for gearing in the game now:

Other than for weapons, don't bother with custom armor unless its for image designer looks. The whole game is made now to favor those who DON'T modify their equipment. Most of the equipment you get will NOT have armorings, mods, enhancements, barrels or hilts you can rip out of it.

Because of this, you can also completely ignore amplifiers and set bonuses until you have your end-game armor anyway. Reason being, set bonuses feel pointless because the game just tosses new whole gear you can't pull mods out of to replace it. It feels like set bonuses are now intended to be at the end of the journey, not all along.

Amplifiers certainly are useful, and if you want to make a "crafting set" of armor, that can be good, but anything combat oriented is a complete waste of credits thanks to the rate you get new equipment and the uncapped credit increased costs per roll - a cap of 50k credits per roll would have made a lot of sense here.

That being said, it isn't impossible to gear if you use a suit with mods in it - just be prepared for a longer path.

To sum up the 2 paths:

Path 1:

Gear with whatever you get, using the appearance tab for looks. Don't bother to work with mods - just grab gear as you get it, and replace it as soon as you get better until you get to endgame. Once in endgame, then finally invest in amplifiers, set bonus armor, and even wait until this point for augments, as you will be switching out armor like nuts until you get to around armor rating 304 or so.

Path 2:

You will get the occasional piece of gear you can rip mods out of, but not nearly as frequently as the other gear. Rip out what you need as needed. Use any scavenged tech parts to pick up mods from the Spoils of War vendor on fleet. Pretty much otherwise the same recommendations as above, but because you will get a lot you can't use, the process will be slower.



So I know I joked about this being the gearing of doom. Its not 100% awful if you gear with path 1. Getting to endgame is going to be a slog, and I found that it likely will be a lot more enjoyable to treat gear as a journery rather than a destination for now, because most content can be run with green level gear without issue.

That last line is what saves this system from being a complete trainwreck. And as I said a month ago in PTS - there are some good bones here. I think if they re-evaluate some of their gearing decisions, and make it more fun for people who like to use mods instead of just gear as a whole, and put a credit cap limit on how expensive amplifiers can get that is REASONABLE, then I think we may have something pretty decent here. Maybe even if there was a way to transfer amplifiers we want from one piece to another would be a huge help, because that alone would also make grabbing set bonuses earlier than end-game worth it, in conjunction with easier ability to get modifications.

I think we all expected the gearing to be a finished product by the time Onslaught hit. But really, I think this is going to be something that is just the beginning. There are things worth saving here - ideas that are good but perhaps implemented in a poor way, that can be fixed and the game ends up with something better than we think right now.

But its got a long way to go. We're going to find out just how much the developers really listen to the players when this thing hits live - do they stick completely to their guns? Or will they start making those needed adjustments in the aftermath?
A "fair" assessment perhaps. There are other aspects of the game that should do well (those are for another post another thread).

Gearing: IMO BW pretty much ignored a large part of those who were on PTS. Some aspects of the total RNG will not hurt too much EXCEPT where the vendors are RNG that presents another issue.

Supposedly crafting received a last minute reprieve, but this is unconfirmed as it was not tested. IMO As this will affect a huge part of the game / community I sincerely hope that the final "adjustments" work.

It is not my point to be contentious at this point in time. I will be patient to see what develops next.
(████████████████████████████]:|█[ioi]█[|||████]|█|

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
10.11.2019 , 05:53 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
In all seriousness, I ran about 5 flashpoints and 1 warzone last night and got a real feel for the gearing system.

It's....different.

Think of gearing now more like a journey rather than a destination. I honestly don't think it is meant anymore to be a "grind" - rather, something you just get here and there and can passively fiddle with until one day, you wake up and "oh wow, my gear is pretty good now!"

Looking at it, I can tell you what the preferred path is for gearing in the game now:

Other than for weapons, don't bother with custom armor unless its for image designer looks. The whole game is made now to favor those who DON'T modify their equipment. Most of the equipment you get will NOT have armorings, mods, enhancements, barrels or hilts you can rip out of it.

Because of this, you can also completely ignore amplifiers and set bonuses until you have your end-game armor anyway. Reason being, set bonuses feel pointless because the game just tosses new whole gear you can't pull mods out of to replace it. It feels like set bonuses are now intended to be at the end of the journey, not all along.

Amplifiers certainly are useful, and if you want to make a "crafting set" of armor, that can be good, but anything combat oriented is a complete waste of credits thanks to the rate you get new equipment and the uncapped credit increased costs per roll - a cap of 50k credits per roll would have made a lot of sense here.

That being said, it isn't impossible to gear if you use a suit with mods in it - just be prepared for a longer path.

To sum up the 2 paths:

Path 1:

Gear with whatever you get, using the appearance tab for looks. Don't bother to work with mods - just grab gear as you get it, and replace it as soon as you get better until you get to endgame. Once in endgame, then finally invest in amplifiers, set bonus armor, and even wait until this point for augments, as you will be switching out armor like nuts until you get to around armor rating 304 or so.

Path 2:

You will get the occasional piece of gear you can rip mods out of, but not nearly as frequently as the other gear. Rip out what you need as needed. Use any scavenged tech parts to pick up mods from the Spoils of War vendor on fleet. Pretty much otherwise the same recommendations as above, but because you will get a lot you can't use, the process will be slower.



So I know I joked about this being the gearing of doom. Its not 100% awful if you gear with path 1. Getting to endgame is going to be a slog, and I found that it likely will be a lot more enjoyable to treat gear as a journery rather than a destination for now, because most content can be run with green level gear without issue.

That last line is what saves this system from being a complete trainwreck. And as I said a month ago in PTS - there are some good bones here. I think if they re-evaluate some of their gearing decisions, and make it more fun for people who like to use mods instead of just gear as a whole, and put a credit cap limit on how expensive amplifiers can get that is REASONABLE, then I think we may have something pretty decent here. Maybe even if there was a way to transfer amplifiers we want from one piece to another would be a huge help, because that alone would also make grabbing set bonuses earlier than end-game worth it, in conjunction with easier ability to get modifications.

I think we all expected the gearing to be a finished product by the time Onslaught hit. But really, I think this is going to be something that is just the beginning. There are things worth saving here - ideas that are good but perhaps implemented in a poor way, that can be fixed and the game ends up with something better than we think right now.

But its got a long way to go. We're going to find out just how much the developers really listen to the players when this thing hits live - do they stick completely to their guns? Or will they start making those needed adjustments in the aftermath?
Thanks for sharing your perspective! Sounds like an honest assessment.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
10.11.2019 , 06:18 PM | #5
All fairly accurate observations.

1). Do not open any renown crates until you are close to item rating 306.
2). Always equip the highest item rating equipment in your possession whenever you open gear crates, like the boxes from warzones or [WEEKLY] missions.
3). Your personal loot drops from bosses on flashpoints and operations will depend on your average item rating level. Think of that before you engage each boss and take a few moments to make sure you are optimizing your chances.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.11.2019 , 06:27 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Templock View Post
Wow, someone on these forums finally gets it.
I mean, I understand it; I just don't like it.

cibacrome's Avatar


cibacrome
10.11.2019 , 06:39 PM | #7
I agree for the most part, but I think getting mods (not min/max) is actually not that hard. I was able to roll a full set pretty quickly from both drops and RNG vendor. Granted, without the handy tech frag dispenser that'll take a bit longer

Here's my plan:

I was able to solo spam Hammer Vet and get from @ 270 (once I figured out that vendors sucked back in early PTS 2.0) to 306 in what probably amounts to 6+ hours of play. On live I can do that with a combo of vet / nim ops, vet solo and mm group fps, and whatever else like conquest, reknown, and so forth.

After vertical gear progression to 306 it's all about acquiring set bonus, tacicals, and mods. I'm going to save my tech frags for bonus set pieces, tacticals, and mods RNG vendor rolls for the most part, but if I'm maxing out and need something I'll roll Zykken or Takkana for gear just to make room for more currency.

Yes, right now mods are the biggest issue. I was getting pretty good mod drops though just running content, so at least from my experience getting enough random mods to fill a full set of bonus gear, which will take several weeks of dedicated play imho, is just going to happen alongside that process.

After that comes min/max, which will take a while unless they make mods available via non-RNG.

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
10.11.2019 , 07:02 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
All fairly accurate observations.

1). Do not open any renown crates until you are close to item rating 306.
2). Always equip the highest item rating equipment in your possession whenever you open gear crates, like the boxes from warzones or [WEEKLY] missions.
3). Your personal loot drops from bosses on flashpoints and operations will depend on your average item rating level. Think of that before you engage each boss and take a few moments to make sure you are optimizing your chances.
I probably shouldn't bump this so soon, but this is EXTREMELY good advice.

Now my view...

Vertical gearing, by which I mean getting to Ilvl 306, will actually be quite easy (particularly if you follow Phal's advice). Moreover, if you go through the annoying process of transferring gear to alts while they level, it means they will get to Ilvl 306 very, very quickly too. In that sense, gearing alts up to an acceptable level seems to be quite easy. Personally, I find it annoying that I have to transfer gear just for Ilvl to other characters, but I'll deal with it since it will be a relatively short process.

Of course, the operative term is "acceptable level." It seems quite clear based on the feedback from Eric (or lack thereof about the mod vendor being RNG)...

It's all about horizontal gearing now. That's the long-term carrot on the stick they are using to get us to keep playing.

Personally, I would prefer a system of RNG protection where they allow us to purchase the specific item we want, albeit at a much higher cost. This is what they had in 5.6, which to me was the pinnacle of gearing systems not just for this MMORPG, but any. They have settled the issue for Set Items and Tacticals, and I'm fine with the RNG for left side items since they are legacy bound. On Amps, I'm with Kendra -- either they matter or they don't -- and I agree with Zion about the cost cap.

Obviously, that leaves Mods, which leads me to...

Math dictates that some people will lose out on their 20th roll trying to get the Mod they want. It baffles me why BW doesn't want to afford them some type of protection.

Dasty

Eriamea's Avatar


Eriamea
10.11.2019 , 07:23 PM | #9
"It's all about horizontal gearing now. That's the long-term carrot on the stick they are using to get us to keep playing. "

Carrot, really? The issue is that we have to re-gear to run the same old content. You were doing nim? got to re-gear again with a tedious and intricate rng system to do the same old thing. For some players it is not a carrot at all, I am simply throwing the towel.

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
10.11.2019 , 07:27 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Eriamea View Post
"It's all about horizontal gearing now. That's the long-term carrot on the stick they are using to get us to keep playing. "

Carrot, really? The issue is that we have to re-gear to run the same old content. You were doing nim? got to re-gear again with a tedious and intricate rng system to do the same old thing. For some players it is not a carrot at all, I am simply throwing the towel.
I didn't say you had to like the carrot. As I made pretty clear in my post -- I'm not fond of that carrot either.

I'm simply saying they believe there are a lot of rabbits. If the content is good, I'll be a rabbit. If not...

Dasty