Completely agree. I think it adds a layer of strategy. But yeah, it can't just be for stealth classes. So this proposed idea would allow nonstealth classes opportunities to swap them.

There's another layer that you're not considering though. Not only does every class need the same opportunities to swap, which is the part your suggestion deals with, they also need to have the same number of useful tacticals to switch to. Right now, ops basically never swap tacticals because they're already using their best offensive tactical (and because they have such great self heals/survivability, they rarely should need life warden). Sins have a bunch of different good options to choose from when they swap.

Obviously what you're suggesting is never going to happen anyway, but it would just add so much unnecessary complexity. The "layer of strategy" it adds is pretty thin if you ask me, and it would not be worth it. Why isn't swapping tacticals between rounds enough? It's a much simpler solution that makes people thoughtfully weigh the pros and cons of each tactical as intended.

No, not at all. It would just be an ability that drops combat. Say a merc uses theirs, but they're standing right in front of you, they wasted it. You would just continue hammering them and they probably never got the tac swap off, because the moment they disengage combat, you reengage them. No immunity.

 

But if they're smart... they'll stun you and/ or rocket back, use the ability, and quickly swap tacticals before you attack them again. It wouldn't be anything like you're imaging. Dropping combat wouldn't mean they're immune to it, just disengaged so they could change gear. As soon as someone hits them, they're back in combat. Friendly heals would make it difficult, and that's part of it. As a stealth, I can't swap tacticals when I cloak out but stay in combat due to friendly heals, or otherwise.

 

 

 

Completely agree. I think it adds a layer of strategy. But yeah, it can't just be for stealth classes. So this proposed idea would allow nonstealth classes opportunities to swap them.

No, youre still leaving a huge advantage then to those who can forcibly leave combat versus those who maybe can if no one is looking at them of attacking them. Its not really any different than now given that.

Just take combat out of it, allow that item to be switched, even in combat, for all classes outside the GCD once per round or every 2-3 minutes. Its either that or remove it from the stelth classes as well.

No, youre still leaving a huge advantage then to those who can forcibly leave combat versus those who maybe can if no one is looking at them of attacking them. Its not really any different than now given that.

Just take combat out of it, allow that item to be switched, even in combat, for all classes outside the GCD once per round or every 2-3 minutes. Its either that or remove it from the stelth classes as well.

The idea isnt to make a completely level playing field in terms of tact swapping - its to bridge the gap between stealth classes and nonstealth classes. Right now, the gap is an ocean bc nonstealths cant swap, period. But this idea would allow nonderps to swap tacticals.

I mean... it's not hard at all to kite, find a corner, drop combat and then use said ability. Then use a hot bar button to swap tacticals. If you're not slow, and if you map intelligently, you could actually pull it off right in front of your opponent:

Shift+G (drop combat ability mapped to this)

Shift+H,B,L.. (any tactical you want)

You can pull that combo off fast. And all you gotta do it dip behind a corner if you need a bit of breathing room to do it. So no, you're incorrect. It's not hard, and it would bridge the gap a bit between stealths and nonstealths.

I can imagine a million different ways I could use such an ability on my sage. Phase walk, drop combat, swap tacts, heal up etc.

VG: run, kite, find LoS, drop combat swap tacticals.

Merc: Blast back, hit a corner, drop combat, swap tacts

Mara's could use such an ability in tandem with their cloak

Any other class: use your stun.... drop combat, swap tacticals

Use a tiny bit of imagination, and you can figure out a way to use such an ability. But it sounds like you want a completely level playing field. And that's just not gonna happen. Stealth classes inherently have more control of dropping combat. And that's not gonna change. So if you want to remove it completely, I get that. But I think leaving it in adds something to combat, and putting in a drop combat ability would bridge the gap to an extent.

The idea isnt to make a completely level playing field in terms of tact swapping - its to bridge the gap between stealth classes and nonstealth classes. Right now, the gap is an ocean bc nonstealths cant swap, period. But this idea would allow nonderps to swap tacticals.

 

I mean... it's not hard at all to kite, find a corner, drop combat and then use said ability. Then use a hot bar button to swap tacticals. If you're not slow, and if you map intelligently, you could actually pull it off right in front of your opponent:

 

Shift+G (drop combat ability mapped to this)

Shift+H,B,L.. (any tactical you want)

 

You can pull that combo off fast. And all you gotta do it dip behind a corner if you need a bit of breathing room to do it. So no, you're incorrect. It's not hard, and it would bridge the gap a bit between stealths and nonstealths.

 

I can imagine a million different ways I could use such an ability on my sage. Phase walk, drop combat, swap tacts, heal up etc.

 

VG: run, kite, find LoS, drop combat swap tacticals.

 

Merc: Blast back, hit a corner, drop combat, swap tacts

 

Mara's could use such an ability in tandem with their cloak

 

Any other class: use your stun.... drop combat, swap tacticals

 

Use a tiny bit of imagination, and you can figure out a way to use such an ability. But it sounds like you want a completely level playing field. And that's just not gonna happen. Stealth classes inherently have more control of dropping combat. And that's not gonna change. So if you want to remove it completely, I get that. But I think leaving it in adds something to combat, and putting in a drop combat ability would bridge the gap to an extent.

You can repeat, highlight, and bold as many times as you want but no, i never asked for that at all. There is no such thing in this or any other game. BUT, the mechanic of this this unintended feature should be as close to universal as possible.

Making one guy waste GCDs and kite to do it, assuming the attacker doesn't chase which is a reach, where another doesnt, is still to use your expression an ocean of difference.

Just put it on a timer for all, simple, easy, universal, done. Over complicate it and nothing will happen. Its either simple or we all lose it, which would you prefer?

There's another layer that you're not considering though. Not only does every class need the same opportunities to swap, which is the part your suggestion deals with, they also need to have the same number of useful tacticals to switch to.

Some class tacticals are already far better than others'. Some classes in general are far better than others. Since when has balance been a sticking point for anything? But yea, you're not wrong. It is something that would need balancing if they openly allow it. But the idea of tacticals was a new item that they would develop more of as time goes, so they can still add an assortment to classes to give them more variety to swap around.

Obviously what you're suggesting is never going to happen anyway, but it would just add so much unnecessary complexity. The "layer of strategy" it adds is pretty thin if you ask me, and it would not be worth it. Why isn't swapping tacticals between rounds enough? It's a much simpler solution that makes people thoughtfully weigh the pros and cons of each tactical as intended.

Sure, the juice may not be worth the squeeze. But I was just proposing an idea that doesnt simply eliminate swapping. I like any mechanic that better players can leverage, and swapping is one. Yes some classes would have much better results leveraging tactical swaps. But currently, only 2 classes can do it (and yes, Ops have no real need to), so adding an ability for nonstealths to drop combat could be an alternative to simply removing tactical swapping.

The way I see it... 1 of three things can happen:

They leave it alone.

They remove it.

They get creative.

Why not think of things that fall into the 3rd category?

So if you want to remove it completely, I get that.

This. Swap tacticals between rounds as intended. Virtually nothing is lost.

The way I see it... 1 of three things can happen:

 

They leave it alone.

They remove it.

They get creative.

 

Why not think of things that fall into the 3rd category?

I guess it can't hurt. It just seems so unrealistic as to be not worth discussing.

We all know the reality is that they're either just going to leave it as is or remove it entirely.

This. Swap tacticals between rounds as intended. Virtually nothing is lost.

[i wasn't fast enough to catch your edit; you asked why this is even a discussion]

Bc if they allow players to tactical swap, better players can leverage it. Technical gameplay is a good thing. Some players... I wont say which ones... will disagree. But technical gameplay is what separates wheat from chaff. I dont want them to scale back something I think is unique and technically demanding. Id rather them play into it. We can agree to disagree.

The way I see it... 1 of three things can happen:

 

They leave it alone.

They remove it.

They get creative.

 

Why not think of things that fall into the 3rd category?

I really like this approach, rather than removing or leaving it alone, some innovatave approach to evening the playing field, whilst maintaining the complexity of tactical switching would get my vote.

Finding the right balance of your proposed combat dropping skill + cooldown would be the tricky part .... although removing it altogether would be the easy option, i'm all for an approach that keeps it in game but negates the advantage sins have vs other classes in the current state. Allowing all classes to switch via a combat drop type skill would be nice.

The charging of things like 2 cloaks, and the persisting buffs on set switching would still need to be addressed though. Eg. Charging the 30% Knell buff and switching to the murderous set after your 3 mauls, with a persisting 30% buff on top of the stride procced 100% crit from murderous set, then followed by alpha strike maul spam + regen tactical is too overpowered to ignore. Set and tactical bonusus, including charged abilities, need to be removed upon armor set and tactical switching, even if a comprimise is found to allow switching to continue via some mechanism or skill for all classes.

Another issue though is ability bloat, some classes feel just right atm, like mara, the rotations and buffs feel well tuned and satisfying (mara OP ;p), but other classes feel like there is already too many skills which makes the feel of the classes unsatisfying, adding yet another skill + follow on skills just adds more confusion and less satisfaction to playing the class.

In GW1 you could only take 8 skills into combat, from a very large selection of skills available, yet I feel the lower skill number added complexity rather than diminished it. There were so many ways to use your class, some may remember group synergy like necros and warrior rangers in IWAY groups. It made for creative use of skills and synergies with other classes. Having a heap of skills available all the time i think lowers the creative ways people can use the class. Though maybe i'm biased as GW1 was my fist MMO, and nostalgia and fond memories can distort points of view.

There is a lot of interest in the removal of guard from dps classes atm in these forums too, but a similar approach, I think, would serve us batter. Rather than remove it, why not think of a way to maintain it whilst removing the OP'ness of it when used by damage disciplines. Like change how guard works when in a dps spec rather than a tank spec, like the utilities .. " whist in tank spec guard does 𝒳, and whist in dps specs guard does 𝒴.