The difficulty of 8 man content is a joke. 16 man is at least a challenge, I really like the mechanics of Jarg and Sornno 16 man nightmare mode. Its by far the most fun and challenging fight you have put out thus far.

 

Any plans on making fights on that difficulty level for 8 and 16 man content in the future?

sigh, when will people learn. the 8 mans are like an intro to raiding for people who have never done it before. not everyone in this game comes from wow or rift and is in a huge guild.

i came to this game with one friend, we found a couple more guildies, and then teamed up with another guild to run 8 man EV. if all they had was like 8 or 16 man hard modes we would never see the content.

shouldnt you want there to be a kind of intro level to raiding so that new people have a chance to get interested in it? dont you want ops to become more popular and have more people doing them?

sigh, when will people learn. the 8 mans are like an intro to raiding for people who have never done it before. not everyone in this game comes from wow or rift and is in a huge guild.

i came to this game with one friend, we found a couple more guildies, and then teamed up with another guild to run 8 man EV. if all they had was like 8 or 16 man hard modes we would never see the content.

shouldnt you want there to be a kind of intro level to raiding so that new people have a chance to get interested in it? dont you want ops to become more popular and have more people doing them?

 

Ok granted I am a very experienced WoW heroic raider, but 6/8 of the guys I took into 8 man nightmare mode had never raided heroic content in wow, for some this is their first MMO. They expected it to be harder.

 

Nightmare should be extremely difficult. Ill give you normal and maybe even hardmode for entry level but nightmare being entry level to get people interested is plain silly.

 

If you are brand new to the game and are clearing the hardest content in the game in the second week, that's sad.

 

Nightmare is supposed to challenge the best players. That's why they have the other 2 modes. Your objection is poorly thought out.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Eroex

not really, i said that the normal 8 mans shouldnt be very hard. i never mentioned the HM/NiM mode difficulties. i totally agree that they should be a big challenge.

not really, i said that the normal 8 mans shouldnt be very hard. i never mentioned the HM/NiM mode difficulties. i totally agree that they should be a big challenge.

 

I guess you didn't read the OP that carefully then, sorry. I specifically talked about nightmare and how I wanted the content to be on the level of jarg and sornno 16 man nightmare.

i guess i can kinda see how you meant to say that in the OP, but it pretty much came across as 'i like jarg and sorno 16 man MN, can we make 8 mans as hard as that fight?'

without really saying which 8 mans you were referring to. my bad i guess. might want to clarify that though, change the thread title to "Buffing 8 man Nightmare in the future?" cause when i hear '8 mans' i just think of the 8 man normal modes

I guess you didn't read the OP that carefully then, sorry. I specifically talked about nightmare and how I wanted the content to be on the level of jarg and sornno 16 man nightmare.

 

Actually to be fair, you made no distinction of the three levels of 8 man content. So the easiest assumption to make from your initial post is that you want all 8man content to be as challenging as 16m nightmare. You can't expect people to infer what yo want when you don't clearly state your discussion elements.

 

Now that you have explained yourself in subsequent posts, I can agree that 8man hard isn't particulary challenging or innovative.

i guess i can kinda see how you meant to say that in the OP, but it pretty much came across as 'i like jarg and sorno 16 man MN, can we make 8 mans as hard as that fight?'

without really saying which 8 mans you were referring to. my bad i guess. might want to clarify that though, change the thread title to "Buffing 8 man Nightmare in the future?" cause when i hear '8 mans' i just think of the 8 man normal modes

 

I don't even consider 8 man normals worth doing so they don't even enter my mind. You can do hardmode easily in 50 blues and columi drops everywhere after the first week or 2 why bother with them.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Eroex

Actually to be fair, you made no distinction of the three levels of 8 man content. So the easiest assumption to make from your initial post is that you want all 8man content to be as challenging as 16m nightmare. You can't expect people to infer what yo want when you don't clearly state your discussion elements.

 

Now that you have explained yourself in subsequent posts, I can agree that 8man hard isn't particulary challenging or innovative.

 

The difficulty of all 8 man content is a joke. So the statement stands. Also why would I want normal mode content to be as hard as nightmare content? That makes no logical sense, what would be the point of nightmare if they were all the same difficulty?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Eroex

They have already stated that 16 man were over-tuned and 8 mans were under-tuned. They also have stated that they will change them in the future so that 8 mans are harder than 16 mans in their respective modes. And these changes are imo, going to make 8 mans much more fun than 16 mans. The difficulty and camaraderie of heroic 10 mans in WoW made me enjoy raiding so much. 25 mans were WAY too easy... heck in my guild on WoW, the core group of 10 was carrying the other 15 people. Not to mention the amount of deaths allowed in 25 mans made it even easier in heroic raids. Once Bioware fixes 8 vs 16, we'll start seeing more 8 man groups and less 16 because people will find 16s are too easy.

Strangely i find Soa 8 NM Harder than 16 (because of the randomness), but as a healer i'am maybe biased.

Strangely i find Soa 8 NM Harder than 16 (because of the randomness), but as a healer i'am maybe biased.

 

two mind traps, 4 lightning balls and two people in the air will fix that!

Ok granted I am a very experienced WoW heroic raider, but 6/8 of the guys I took into 8 man nightmare mode had never raided heroic content in wow, for some this is their first MMO. They expected it to be harder.

 

Nightmare should be extremely difficult. Ill give you normal and maybe even hardmode for entry level but nightmare being entry level to get people interested is plain silly.

 

If you are brand new to the game and are clearing the hardest content in the game in the second week, that's sad.

 

Nightmare is supposed to challenge the best players. That's why they have the other 2 modes. Your objection is poorly thought out.

 

My experience is very different from yours. In my first normal mode operation (KP), we wiped about 4 times per boss and never finished it. DPS were standing in the wrong spots and the leader trying to use a strat that shouldn't work. That tells me that the advantage of having 2 experts leading the whole group, and having a group that listens to instructions, is what makes things doable and/or easy. It also helps to have gear.

 

 

 

1st boss: Leader tried to have me straight tank the boss and Guard/Intercede whoever got hate. This worked fine until the boss reached 50% and spawned Cats, and the DPS could never burn them down in time before getting killed. Plus, holding hate after 50% was pretty much impossible due to being unable to taunt.

 

We won as soon as we switched to the hardmode strat, where they had me tank the boss until 50%, then I'd switch to the cats and tank them while the DPS burned the boss down. Our sniper died at the very beginning for standing near the edge.

 

 

 

2nd Boss: We had one of our DPS switch to his Juggernaut to be our second tank... he had never tanked before, was specced Vengeance (DPS), and the only tanking gear he had was a few pieces of Champ War Leader. He had about 3000 less health than me, and at the time my only Columi piece was gloves, the rest was either Centurion/Champ or orange gear (I was also a Juggernaut, proper tank). He died a lot. DPS kept standing in the fire when it was up, so healer couldn't keep up and we wiped twice. Our plan was to burn Jarg down to 15%, then burn Sorno down to 15%, then finish them both at the same time.

 

Leader realized we had even numbers of ranged and melee DPS, so we used Ranged against my boss, melee on the other, and burned both at the same time. Other tank died quickly, so I tanked both until we finished, and I died at the very end, but no wipe because Jarg was at 1% anyway.

 

 

 

3rd Boss: Leader told me I could straight tank and spank (rather than kite) because all I would have to do is pop a cooldown to survive the frenzies. This did not work - each time I'd pop one, the cooldown did its job, but it'd wear off before the frenzy was over. Twice, I died because my cooldowns would wear off before he was done beating the crap out of me, and they wouldn't be ready again in time for his next frenzy, so we tried me Kiting, with a different healer who had never done the fight before because our first one got tired, and we won.

 

 

 

4th Boss: Once again, second tank was the DPS Jugg. We had two guys who were supposed to be really good at the puzzle doing puzzle duty, but the kept *********** up the puzzle, and the second tank died before his armor reduction stacks got higher than 3 on our first tank swap. After that, they started the fight by accident before I was in the zone, wiped again, and the entry door bugged. We called it a night because we were exhausted and we were wiping to the trash anyway.

 

 

 

6 of these guys were in the same guild. The healer and I were the only randoms, the leaders had clearly finished hardmodes before and thought this would be easy. I was doing my job to satisfaction, and so was the healer - the DPS were not. Clearly, you can't just run in and expect to win even a normal mode Op in the manner everyone's implying - the advantage of having experienced leaders, competent DPS, and players in good gear is gigantic.

 

I feel like we're not being told your whole story. I certainly didn't find Ops easy at all, and FWIW, this is the first MMO I've ever raided in as well. I couldn't imagine myself finishing a Nightmare Op.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Vid-szhite

Now that we know your whole Swtor experience.... thank u... but i agree with whoever posted first this content is rediculasly easy period end game raiders need a challenge thats why its called nightmare mode give them different abilities or somthing jarg and sorno is the best fight by far.... and *** is up with EV.... 2 of the fights are free loot the puzzle boss and the fight after that where everyone has one dude to kill. This game is going to lose alot of hardcore raiders if it doesnt get them interested, im not saying anything bad about you casuals, you guys can have ur normal modes and even hard, but give the elitiest jerks some impossible fights that we spend hours on and want to pull our hair out as much as we say we hate it we love it and want to see it go down.. thats my 2 cents.

you apparently cant say w t f... *** is that

Yay, another thread where someone is clamoring for more difficult group content in an online game where there are many variables outside of your control at any point in time.

 

What is wrong with having the normal mode be easy enough so that just about any 8 or 16 people can team up and do something productive together?

As a previous poster said, 8 Man is going to be harder than 16 Man (by the way, this current lock 8M is hitting harder than it was last week, 16M is hitting the same).

 

BioWare's logic behind this is that, by nature, it's harder to get 16 people together and coordinated than 8 people. Thus, if it hasn't already, 16 man will be "easier" than 8 man moving forward.

Ok guys 8 man and 16 mans are pretty similar. 8 man is pretty similar to 16m in difficulty in my opinion. 8man Nightmare Soa is the only boss that I find to be harder than 16m version of the boss. Don't get me wrong I think Nightmare could stand to be a few notches above IF there were no bugs. In 16m there are several bosses with 1 shot abilities and they will one shot multiple times in a single fight. With all the bugs fixed then Nightmare could stand to go up some more health on the bosses and a few more abilities to avoid if we had the entire raid up the whole fight. But in conclusion sorry for that rant. I think 8mans are much simplier than in 16mans except for Nightmare Soa. 16 people and you get 3 Balls. 8 mans you get 2. Final phase 16 get 2 8 get 1. Finally the = amount of mind traps but the scaling for 16 people it is easier to burn the amount of health on their mind trap than the ones in 8man (16man we have 4 ranged DPS specifically take out the Mind Traps on NM Soa). The boss's are inconsistent in difficulty.

As a previous poster said, 8 Man is going to be harder than 16 Man (by the way, this current lock 8M is hitting harder than it was last week, 16M is hitting the same).

 

BioWare's logic behind this is that, by nature, it's harder to get 16 people together and coordinated than 8 people. Thus, if it hasn't already, 16 man will be "easier" than 8 man moving forward.

 

Biowares logic is terrible to say the least, like I said before normal is fine i dont care if its easy, but nightmare 16 man should be just as hard if not harder than 8 man, who cares if "its harder to get people together" Thats not my problem. Don't do 16 man content if you cant get 16 people together.