Why do we keep Saying? Jedi/Sith X can never beat Jedi/Sith Y because the forcepowers........yada yada yada Relics.......yada yada yada lightsaber form...............

 

In my personal experience in hand to hand combat. martial arts, combat sport. "Every dog has it's day." Provided there is a certain skill level and proper motivation.

Why do we keep Saying? Jedi/Sith X can never beat Jedi/Sith Y because the forcepowers........yada yada yada Relics.......yada yada yada lightsaber form...............

 

In my personal experience in hand to hand combat. martial arts, combat sport. "Every dog has it's day." Provided there is a certain skill level and proper motivation.

 

I tend to find that whoever fights dirtiest wins.

That is a very true statement

It all depends on their power level.

Well Jedi/Sith X has a power level of over nine thousand, while Jedi/Sith Y is only 4,000.

 

Though you have a point. It's not always cut and paste, this guy always wins, the great Sith/Jedi can make a mistake. Look at Darth Maul, he easily outmatched both Qui Gon and Obi Wan, when he was still 2 years younger then Obi Wan at the time. His abilities surpassed them, but his Downfall was letting his guard down when he believed Obi Wan had no way of fighting back, he thought he didn't have to worry, but due to this Obi Wan surprised and beat him.

 

Sidious will usually win a fight, but have a thousand replay fights against another sith, say Vitiate, and Sidious would lose at least once.

Not just the fans, but the sanctioned writers as well. Post-Episode-VI really did get to be like Dragonball Z, and it's hard for me to enjoy anything Star Wars related when I'm reminded of how the plot will eventually turn to ****.

 

Just look at the ending of Episode VI. Even the all-powerful Sideous was killed in a normal manner. That gave his power a great deal more meaning.

 

 

Absolute power absolutely corrupts plots.

Well Jedi/Sith X has a power level of over nine thousand, while Jedi/Sith Y is only 4,000.

 

Though you have a point. It's not always cut and paste, this guy always wins, the great Sith/Jedi can make a mistake. Look at Darth Maul, he easily outmatched both Qui Gon and Obi Wan, when he was still 2 years younger then Obi Wan at the time. His abilities surpassed them, but his Downfall was letting his guard down when he believed Obi Wan had no way of fighting back, he thought he didn't have to worry, but due to this Obi Wan surprised and beat him.

 

Sidious will usually win a fight, but have a thousand replay fights against another sith, say Vitiate, and Sidious would lose at least once.

 

Well-put! I have heard countless people go on and on about Maul's death. What you say is absolutely true and can be seen in every single PVP game. The winner likes to taunt, gloat and bask in their glory, only to get shot in the back. Gears of War 3's execution ability is the perfect example.

Not just the fans, but the sanctioned writers as well. Post-Episode-VI really did get to be like Dragonball Z, and it's hard for me to enjoy anything Star Wars related when I'm reminded of how the plot will eventually turn to ****.

 

Just look at the ending of Episode VI. Even the all-powerful Sideous was killed in a normal manner. That gave his power a great deal more meaning.

 

 

Absolute power absolutely corrupts plots.

 

Ah....Han Solo killed Palpatine in the EU so he died a normal way there too, blaster to the back.

Ah....Han Solo killed Palpatine in the EU so he died a normal way there too, blaster to the back.

 

Was that his final death? I couldn't read anymore after I learned that Palpatine had a cloning facility where his soul could be infinitely reborn. Reading past that was almost physically painful.

Was that his final death? I couldn't read anymore after I learned that Palpatine had a cloning facility where his soul could be infinitely reborn. Reading past that was almost physically painful.

 

Ya that was his final death.

It's over 9,000?!

I can't agree more that recycling bad guys from the movies is supremely lazy. It's just a crutch to keep from having to create a new and compelling threat to the characters.

 

I will give credit to Timothy Zahn though, I think the characters he created in the Thrawn Trilogy were deep and well developed. Those are the only books in the EU worth purchasing, IMO.

In my personal experience in hand to hand combat. martial arts, combat sport. "Every dog has it's day." Provided there is a certain skill level and proper motivation.

Well that's irrelevant. We aren't talking about normal martial arts. We are talking about fighters that use a mystical power to enhance their combat abilities and give them new ones. We can only go on their particular feats of power and skill.

I can't agree more that recycling bad guys from the movies is supremely lazy. It's just a crutch to keep from having to create a new and compelling threat to the characters.

 

I will give credit to Timothy Zahn though, I think the characters he created in the Thrawn Trilogy were deep and well developed. Those are the only books in the EU worth purchasing, IMO.

 

I'd agree with that. Though I did enjoy the Bounty Hunter Wars Trilogy.

I will agree, the whole "Well I have the Force so I automatcally win at everything" take on Force Sensitive characters in the EU is a litte annoying.

 

Perfect examples of this being Mace Windu in the Animated Clone Wars Series or Starkiller in the Force Uleashed. Granted these examples are at the far end of the spectrum, but it still the fact that whole tv shows, video games, and books have been devoted to the "Awesomeness" of Force Users is begining to grate on me.

 

I mean if the Jedi/Sith are THAT powerful why even have non-Force users in the Star Wars galaxy? If the Emperor and Luke Skywalker can manipulate black holes, or send entire fleets across interstellar distances, then why even have an army? Just send your respective Jedi or Sith to the battlefield and watch as they would faceroll all opposition without breaking a sweat, all with their magical "I win" button called the Force.

 

I prefer the "down to Earth" force users we see in the OT, characters that had depth and vulerabilites in combat (Luke getting shot in the hand in ROTJ) who's Force Sensitivity gave them a slight edge over their enemies.

 

Not "gods" that pull star destroyers out of the sky with one hand while deflecting blaster fire from an entire platoon of Stormtroopers with the lightsaber in the other hand.

 

Not only does this treatment of Jedi/Sith (IMO) detract from the characters that are force sensitive,

 

(How are we as an audience suppose to feel empathy and fear for the characters when they just Force crushed an AT-AT two seconds ago and then find themselves caught in a Stormtooper ambush.)

 

but it also makes any non-Force user have to be even more over the top if they are supposed to compete with said Jedi/Sith (Bobba Fet anyone?).

Well that's irrelevant. We aren't talking about normal martial arts. We are talking about fighters that use a mystical power to enhance their combat abilities and give them new ones. We can only go on their particular feats of power and skill.

 

But the "every dog has it's day" still applies. None of them are perfect beings, they are limited by there character. their emotions and state of mind.

Males like to establish power hierarchies.

 

Having a X could beat Y debate, his power level is so much higher blah blah, is just an extension of this.

 

Really I agree though, this kind of thing leads to silliness and boring unimaginative plots.

 

The original star wars movies were good as someone above me said because it wasn't about duels between characters to see who's dick is longer. Even when there were "epic duels" like luke vs. vader it was about luke trying to rescue the stronger vader from darkness and was placed in the context of a larger story where non-force sensitives were also critical. And the jedi weren't invincible (obi wan didn't kill everyone in a swath on the death star, he snuck around so they wouldn't get overwhelmed), they just had a slight advantage and had to use subterfuge to succeed.

Edited January 29, 2012 by DecimaPoiuytr

I agree wholeheartedly with the above post;

 

"Down to Earth" Jedi and Sith have the best character, when they are vulnerable and capable of dying we as an audience can empathize with the character and have fear when they are in danger.

 

The way that certain parts of the EU would have it, is that if you are a character in the Star Wars universe you'd had better hope you are Force Sensitive, because if you are not, then you are regulated to being cannon fodder that the OP Jedi/Sith can try their powers out on, or a useless ally that can offer no help what-so-ever to the Force User.

 

Acording to some EU sorces, having the force would instantly make one infanatly (sp?) better than a whole platoon of sodiers who had spent their entire adult lives training in warefare tactics, and had the advantage in numbers, or a whole army of robots, designed specifically for warfare and battlefield combat.

 

Jedi/Sith are cool in small doses, but too much of anything is bad.

I will give credit to Timothy Zahn though, I think the characters he created in the Thrawn Trilogy were deep and well developed. Those are the only books in the EU worth purchasing, IMO.

 

I agree here. Would love to see this trilogy transferred into a movie trilogy. And could rightly be named Episodes 7-9.

Was that his final death? I couldn't read anymore after I learned that Palpatine had a cloning facility where his soul could be infinitely reborn. Reading past that was almost physically painful.

 

And he came back more powerful when he resurrected. That was real DBZ crap there. Palp was a super sayan I guess?

 

Why didn't he throw himself down the shaft over and over again. Why was he old if he knew he could be more powerful from resurrecting?

Why didn't he throw himself down the shaft over and over again. Why was he old if he knew he could be more powerful from resurrecting?

 

well say you get stabbed, it hurts alot but when you recover you realize you're stronger. with that thinking, would you put yourself through hours/days of pain to come out stronger later? or be happy that you're stronger now?

9000???

But the "every dog has it's day" still applies. None of them are perfect beings, they are limited by there character. their emotions and state of mind.

 

Except we're not talking about mortals. If one person is capable of enhancing his abilities to move faster than the human eye, he's not going to come down with a cold and suddenly have normal speed. We aren't talking about normal people, we're talking about mystics that shoot lighting and wield laser swords.

Don't you know? When multiple characters powerlevels all go over 9000 and they all go Super Saiyan 4 and their lightsabers become tails and they can fly with the Force and when they find all the Dragon Balls they can summon Yoda and he grants them some wishes and once one of them wished to BE Yoda and he pimp slapped them and said "be me you cannot, too tall you are."

Except we're not talking about mortals. If one person is capable of enhancing his abilities to move faster than the human eye, he's not going to come down with a cold and suddenly have normal speed. We aren't talking about normal people, we're talking about mystics that shoot lighting and wield laser swords.

 

Well they are mortals blessed with a gift. Plus you still ignore the other things I pointed out about them.

 

Plus what is inconsisten about it is, that it seems the Jedi/Sith only seems to perform certain feats when the plot allows it. I.E they can use force speed to run insanely fast. Q.E.D Episode 1 where Obi-Wan runs away from the Droideka's

 

But when he runs towards Qui-Gonn and Darth Maul who are fighting, he can't run as ffast anymore. I know this is all for the sake of making a movie and keeping it exciting, but it happens in Star Wars in other media aswell.