700 expertise is better than 0 expertise. fact.

Assumung main stats are the same? Yes.

Decreased main stats? Not so much..

Assumung main stats are the same? Yes.

Decreased main stats? Not so much..

I've been reading your posts and I'm not sure you understand how expertise works. Expertise on pvp gear more than makes up for the loss in other stats. You could be in full rakata and not do as much damage as someone in recruit gear or take as much damage either. Pve gear is never better than pvp gear. That is the point of expertise and why they changed the way it scales in 1.2. Before 1.2, pve gear was still good in pvp, not so much now.

Assumung main stats are the same? Yes.

Decreased main stats? Not so much..

the expertise on recruit gear more than makes up for lesser stats. the most important part of expertise and the main thing it has that pve gear does not is damage reduction. without the damage reduction, it doesnt matter how much dps you can do because you wont be alive long enough to do it. anyone with expertise will destroy you in short order.

They should give about 2K more HP from recruit set. Not main stats, whatever, Expertise will compensate that a bit, but people should stop melting with their fresh bought 13K HP. It just not fair for new people.

More HP would be nice. PvP has some serious balancing issues right now that, if fixed, would alleviate some of the issues of people melting.

While I don't agree with any system that would order you to buy anything, I do think they set the price a bit too high and that's why you see so many people in low level modded gear instead of recruit gear.

Not too long ago Bioware released a stat that the vast majority of SWTOR players had under 500k. And then they set the intro PvP armor set price at 2/3 of that amount. Not a good decision if your goal is truly to help people transition into PvP.

While some of us played the market and made millions, others do only have a half a mil or so and that money is used wisely and sparingly. If you can work on your BM set for a week or so and take a few deaths, why spend the majority of your savings on a very temporary boost? See the logic?

Add to that the fact that warzones pay dick for money, you can see that PvPers are not really rolling in dough and the 300k+ price is a bit too steep for PvPers.

That said, I'd never be found in a warzone with anything less than recruit gear, but I'm set. Seems they try subconsciously (or maybe consciously), to sneak in a money sink wherever they can, without actually thinking about the viability of such prices for the masses.

you have to PVP ALOT to get 3500 rwz guarentee your gonna hit lvl 50 before you make that cap since you dont start getting them till lvl 40 so your point is mute and invalid 700 expertise to start is nothing against someone with 1.3k fact. you talk a big game but you fail to understand that alot of those poeple sitting in BM got it the easy way and BW made it hard for everyone else. i agree remove expertise then it will be based of skill and not gear

Struggling through the lack of proper capitalisation, I think your argument is massively off the mark, it is far, far easier to get BM gear now than it ever was pre 1.2 with its lottery of bags.

It's not a "big game", it is simple to get these comms, just play pvp. I don't pve, I don't enjoy it, I do enjoy pvp, hence it is what I do when i log on. Seriously, my tank will have 4 good pieces at least of BM gear as soon as she hits 50, simply, because I pvp.

I wish this system had been available all along to my main toon, none of that (ah crap, just more champ tokens) disappointment from the bags.

This isn't an elitist argument. Its basic common sense that you want people wearing pvp gear to pvp in. You wouldn't show up to play football with no pads or cleats, would you? If you did, how would that affect not only your ability to pretty but your contribution to your team? Would your team not be justified in being a little upset that you chose not to wear the right gear just because you care more about yourself than the team? Isn't it the height of selfishness to put your own needs before that of your team?

 

You don't buy gear to, as you put it, "appease my own sense of selfworth", you buy gear because its selfish to put your team at a disadvantage just because you don't want to buy and wear readily available pvp gear. You may not care that you're still wearing centurion gear on you're "fun"character, but I guarantee the 7 other people in your wzs care that you're wasting their time and hurting their chances of winning because you're too stubborn, selfish, ignorant or cheap to buy and wear easily available pvp gear.

Seriously, you sound like you need a reality check. Pay my sub and dictate to me how to have fun by all means, otherwise, play your own game and quit whining like a kid with a skinned knee.

This is a game, it is not real life, it is not remotely important to anyone with any real sense of perspective on life, if you feel different, I suggest you head down to the doctors. If you are not having fun due to me playing my casual toon in centurion and champ peices, please feel free to stop playing, because I can guarantee you, that your opinion on how I need to be having my fun means utterly nothing to me during my leisure time.

It is selfish to tell someone how to play a game, you will not be happy unless people do it your way, well, wake up and smell the roses and take note, the world does not revolve around you.

I've been reading your posts and I'm not sure you understand how expertise works. Expertise on pvp gear more than makes up for the loss in other stats. You could be in full rakata and not do as much damage as someone in recruit gear or take as much damage either. Pve gear is never better than pvp gear. That is the point of expertise and why they changed the way it scales in 1.2. Before 1.2, pve gear was still good in pvp, not so much now.

No, just no....

Here is an example, assume full recuit gear 13K HP, 14% mitigation or 15-16K HP. Crit 5K attack.. Would you rather?

A. Get hit for 4.3K(33% of your HP)......YAY mitigation!! 8.7K left.....

B. Get hit for 5K, derp...11K left...

Now add in the PvP medpaks are based on 35% of MAX HP..... Shall we go into healing?

Yes, if you need to fill slots, get the recruit, if you have LVL 50 purps or ANY PVE gear higher than TIO, you are good to play in lvl 50 PvP. I am trying to make the focus of this thread "to the peeps in LVL40 greens in the 50 PVP bracket."

Seriously, you sound like you need a reality check. Pay my sub and dictate to me how to have fun by all means, otherwise, play your own game and quit whining like a kid with a skinned knee.

i will accept your selfishness if you pay my sub everytime your undergeared self lands on my team and i have to carry you through a match.

the thing that your arguement ignores is that in this game, and other MMOs, you are required to interact with other players.

while you can play as you like, when you are interacting with others how you play effects their game too. it is totaly reasonable that they expect you to meet a minimum standard as to how you play.

in pve raids this isnt that much of an issue. if you dont have the gear, dont know the fights, or are just generaly bad, you will get booted out fast, if you were even lucky enough to be accepted in the first place.

pvp is a different story, you can queue solo and get put on a random team of other players. if those other players see you as a weak point they would rather do without, they have no means to remove you. your selfishness, bad attitude, and poor social skills become clear very quickly. thankfully we are spared your low standards of personal hygiene.

you want to get carried and think we dont have the right to complain about it.

we dont want to carry you and think we have the right to say so, loudly!

No, just no....

 

Here is an example, assume full recuit gear 13K HP, 14% mitigation or 15-16K HP. Crit 5K attack.. Would you rather?

 

A. Get hit for 4.3K(33% of your HP)......YAY mitigation!! 8.7K left.....

B. Get hit for 5K, derp...11K left...

 

 

Now add in the PvP medpaks are based on 35% of MAX HP..... Shall we go into healing?

 

Yes, if you need to fill slots, get the recruit, if you have LVL 50 purps or ANY PVE gear higher than TIO, you are good to play in lvl 50 PvP. I am trying to make the focus of this thread "to the peeps in LVL40 greens in the 50 PVP bracket."

You are so missinformed. Please do not advice the community.

In full recruit gear (besides belt, bracer and off hand which are champion items) my assassin has:

807 expertise rating

16.74 Damage bonus vs players

14.34% Damage mitigation vs players

9.17% extra healing.

Thats alot of extra damage and mitigation you dont get in PvE gear vs players. Alot more than what your main stats will bring you. You need astronomical amounts of main stats to equal that.

Not only do I deal 16.74% more damage to you while you wear PvE gear, but you deal 14.34% less to me aswell. Making the gap HUGE between PvP recruit gear and pretty much any PvE gear. The recruit weapons damage is also better than any form of fresh level 50 epic/modded you can get.

And regarding the PvP medpack, yes it heals for 35% health. Say you have 15000 health in pve gear, thats 5250 health with the medpack. 14000 health in PvP gear, thats 4900, but my pvp gear adds 9.17% extra healing. Thats 5349 HP with a medpack.

Stats just dont scale nearly as well as the pure % buff expertise gives to damage, healing and mitigation. So dont tell people they will do ok running around in PvE gear while PvPing. They will get shredded, they will complain and be left in the dark.

Please stop giving missinformation or I will report you for trolling.

edit: And this comparison is between recruit gear and pve gear, the gap gets even bigger between BM gear and pve gear where stats are even higher. But where the gap is much smaller between recruit and BM. Just a few odd % difference while its up around 20%, 17% and 13% BM vs PvE gear.

How about this.

Delete all pvp gear from the game. When you q for warzone at 50 and you click join, it puts you in a suit of BM gear(just for the Warzone, not permanent gear), for your class and spec, or gives you the choice of 3 sets that each focus on a different secondary stats. When you leave the warzone your back in your gear.

Everyone is now gear equal and PvP is about skill, situational awareness and strategy. The way its supposed to be.

Make pvp rewards, Money, Special titles, still give commendations or whatever, but make it so there is cool social items, mounts, medpacks, stims, pets, titles, vanity items, crafting items, and such to spend them on instead of gear.

Make PvP about skill, strategy and teamwork, not gear and FOTM toons.

 

Make PvP about skill, strategy and teamwork, not gear and FOTM toons.

People play an MMO to make their toon better. It's why it's not a first person shooter, but even those games have come to the conclusion if you add carrots people will play it more. Play Battlefield etc and notice the ranking systems.

Adding the element of a gear grind is actually wanted by most people. The only argument how much of a grind should it be. For me I hate the grind and want it small, but I understand the need or want for a little bit of one.

You are so missinformed. Please do not advice the community.

 

In full recruit gear (besides belt, bracer and off hand which are champion items) my assassin has:

 

807 expertise rating

16.74 Damage bonus vs players

14.34% Damage mitigation vs players

9.17% extra healing.

 

Thats alot of extra damage and mitigation you dont get in PvE gear vs players. Alot more than what your main stats will bring you. You need astronomical amounts of main stats to equal that.

 

Not only do I deal 16.74% more damage to you while you wear PvE gear, but you deal 14.34% less to me aswell. Making the gap HUGE between PvP recruit gear and pretty much any PvE gear. The recruit weapons damage is also better than any form of fresh level 50 epic/modded you can get.

 

And regarding the PvP medpack, yes it heals for 35% health. Say you have 15000 health in pve gear, thats 5250 health with the medpack. 14000 health in PvP gear, thats 4900, but my pvp gear adds 9.17% extra healing. Thats 5349 HP with a medpack.

 

Stats just dont scale nearly as well as the pure % buff expertise gives to damage, healing and mitigation. So dont tell people they will do ok running around in PvE gear while PvPing. They will get shredded, they will complain and be left in the dark.

 

Please stop giving missinformation or I will report you for trolling.

 

edit: And this comparison is between recruit gear and pve gear, the gap gets even bigger between BM gear and pve gear where stats are even higher. But where the gap is much smaller between recruit and BM. Just a few odd % difference while its up around 20%, 17% and 13% BM vs PvE gear.

Still dont get it? Trolling? No... Obervations and simple math...yes. Ask yourself why BW buffed expertise if it really was on par with PvE gear? Are your seriously suggesting wearing recuit gear is better than wearing Rakata? I'll say it again expertise ONLY increases bonus damage/healing. What goes into your bonus damage? Ta-da..... MAIN STAT/POW/FORCE/TECH.

Do you want 16% increase on 600 bonus damage or 700 bonus damage? That does not even account for contributions of main stat to crit rating. As I said before, mitigation is even more muted, and healing is a joke. I also would guess you don't have any PvE gear to even compare it, so... I am using real stats to compare this you are just talking out of ur azz.... With the buff given in 1.2 it is on par with PvE stuff tier for tier.

And you spend about 1.5 million on Skill training. Which leaves you with -500k ( I am being sarcastic but seriously you spend about 800k on L50 Skills depending on your class, so you made 1 mil or so leveling up, well -800k on skills, - another 200k on speeder/aesthetics, etc)

 

When I hit 50 I had 800k too on my sorce, after I was done training I went and Bought the recruit gear (or what I could afford) and guess what? After buying a few pieces of the recruit gear I was broke.

 

I have better things to do with 800k then buy some recruit gear that will be useless in 2 days once I get the medals for BM gear. So yea im gonna PvP in **** greens for a week, and pop into a WZ with Full BM and remain 500k richer then I would having bought the worthless Recruit ****.

I'll queue as a tank, but I don't want to taunt the enemy. It takes extra focus on my part and an additional button press. Why bother when someone else will taunt at some point anyway? Oh and forget capturing objectives. Everyone goes right for me when I do that and I die in seconds. Defense? Yeah right, the enemy team is going to capture it anyway so I'll die for nothing. I'll just 1v1 people all match so I can still get my medals and comms. If someone calls for backup, I'll stay put. Who wants to run all the way across the map for a fight that will be half over by the time you get there?

How would you like to have a team full of people like that? By knowingly queuing with no gear, you are waving a huge flag that says "I don't care about the team or trying to win". No PvP gear means you die that much faster, which means you spend more time waiting at the zone entrance, which means more time contributing absolutely zero to the team effort. And guess what? When people see others doing this, they aren't going to make the effort to help those slackers in the match.

There is no getting around it. The recruit set is not overwhelmingly expensive, and you are being a detriment to the entire team if you go in without that set as a minimum. I leveled a sorc to 50 using no credits at all from my main. I leveled with Biochem, bought my speeders, constantly ran crew missions, even bought items on the GTN. When I hit 50, I had enough to train all of my new abilities and buy the recruit set with over 300k to spare. If you are really that broke and can't be bothered to do a couple hours of dailies so you can buy competitive PvP gear, I feel sorry for the good players on your team.

...Are your seriously suggesting wearing recuit gear is better than wearing Rakata?

...

Do you want 16% increase on 600 bonus damage or 700 bonus damage?...

are you seriously suggesting a fresh 50 can have a full set of rakata within minutes of dinging for just 300k creds, or even pre-farmed before dinging?

600bd +16% vs 700bd....negligable difference. if thats vs rakata, the recruit gear wins hands down simply on ease of aquisition.

the additional mitigation is icing on the cake. icing that your rakata does not have.

enjoying being an un-iced cake while those recruit equiped players eat you alive.

also, for those who thought ahead, they'll have 4 pieces of BM and the remainder recruit when they ding.

for the thoughtless, its full recruit or face the rage of players like we are seeing in this thread.

are you seriously suggesting a fresh 50 can have a full set of rakata within minutes of dinging for just 300k creds, or even pre-farmed before dinging?

 

600bd +16% vs 700bd....negligable difference. if thats vs rakata, the recruit gear wins hands down simply on ease of aquisition.

the additional mitigation is icing on the cake. icing that your rakata does not have.

 

enjoying being an un-iced cake while those recruit equiped players eat you alive.

 

also, for those who thought ahead, they'll have 4 pieces of BM and the remainder recruit when they ding.

for the thoughtless, its full recruit or face the rage of players like we are seeing in this thread.

The modifier for Expertise applies to the base damage too, which accounts for a rather considerable part of the skill's damage/healing/whatever.

You'd probably be better off buying BM weapon + offhand first assuming you plan on doing some PvE on the side. It's especially handy for dailys since weapon and offhand accounts for a disproportional amount of your total damage, especially if you're a tech/force based class (white damage class can skip the offhand). It'd be less Expertise but it should help you make some cash quicker via dailys. Of course if you don't care about PvE at all then you should buy the cheapest pieces first to maximize Expertise.

are you seriously suggesting a fresh 50 can have a full set of rakata within minutes of dinging for just 300k creds, or even pre-farmed before dinging?

 

600bd +16% vs 700bd....negligable difference. if thats vs rakata, the recruit gear wins hands down simply on ease of aquisition.

the additional mitigation is icing on the cake. icing that your rakata does not have.

 

enjoying being an un-iced cake while those recruit equiped players eat you alive.

 

also, for those who thought ahead, they'll have 4 pieces of BM and the remainder recruit when they ding.

for the thoughtless, its full recruit or face the rage of players like we are seeing in this thread.

no I am not compairing Rakata to recruit, but this person did.

You are so missinformed. Please do not advice the community.

Not only do I deal 16.74% more damage to you while you wear PvE gear, but you deal 14.34% less to me aswell. Making the gap HUGE between PvP recruit gear and pretty much any PvE gear. The recruit weapons damage is also better than any form of fresh level 50 epic/modded you can get.

Recruit v PvE with L49-50 epics

BM v RAK

etc etc...

All in the same ballpark...

Here I will make it easier..

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/42957/recruit-force-masters-relay

67END

59WP

42CRIT

42ALA

69EXP=1.71 increase in damage, 1.68 mitigation, .92% healing

or

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/4385-1012/expert-nano-optic-resolve-system

Augmented(+18END, +12WP) for me and I can wear @ lvl 49 mind you!!!

68END

72WP

25CRIT

40SUR

29ALA

For the sake of arugument we will say END is a wash. My "naked" damage bonus is 92.9

FROM A DAMAGE STANDPOINT:

Going to recruit:

New Damage Bonus: 106.7

EXP increase: 125 DAMAGE

Expert Nano: = +14.4 DAMAGE

No EXP increase: 107.3 DAMAGE

This is an 18HP damage difference....NOMINAL. When you consider that your crit rating was nerfed because of the lower main stat & your surge is NON-EXISTENT.... NOMINAL EXCHANGE. Then you also lump in the fact that the higher EXP goes, the LESS it contributes to the "damage increase".....NOMINAL EXCHANGE.. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE 1.2... This is one of the "BEST" pieces. I can show you a TON OF WORST trades, and this is just from the damage perspective. Mitigation and heals are FAR worst. ONCE AGAIN TIER FOR TIER PvE is still sufficent to PvP. The problem is wearing lvl 47 greens in the 50 bracket. They are actually undergeared for PvE. Trust me, no one in 100% recruit gear will be viable in post 50 PvE (Raids and HM flashpoints at least).

RECRUIT GEAR IS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO:

A. Don't want to do dailies.

B. Don't Raid/FP.

PS: EXP Healing bonus is ONLY for healing output from yourself, not taken from others players or PvP medpaks, and even if it did, you MAIN and POW/FOR/TECH contributes to your healing bonus as well, so you again are taking away MAIN for little EXP gains from a heals perspective.

So again moral of the story: if you dont have lvl 49/50 epics buy the recruit set.....

I agree with this completely and have been saying as much even before recruit gear was put into the game. There is gear checks for PvE, why not PvP? PvP is a competitive activity, no one wants a team full of folks that cant be bothered to be prepared for PvP, just like no one wants some under geared person in their PvE runs.

Getting recruit gear is supper easy, there is simply no reason for not having it.

Horrible time reading this thread, I'll keep my answer straightfoward.

I'm not going to throw away credits and stats to replacing my HARD EARNED Champion pieces for an increase in expertise. If you don't like my comparitively low expertise, tough.

Horrible time reading this thread, I'll keep my answer straightfoward.

 

I'm not going to throw away credits and stats to replacing my HARD EARNED Champion pieces for an increase in expertise. If you don't like my comparitively low expertise, tough.

if you have champion pieces....

why arent you in full battlemaster yet?

you've had more than enough time to replace them with the better set.

no I am not compairing Rakata to recruit, but this person did. You also convienently forget that the decrease in END from rakata to recruit is around 200HP PER PIECE!!!!!!

Recruit v PvE with L49-50 epics

BM v RAK

etc etc...

All in the same ballpark...

 

Here I will make it easier..

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/42957/recruit-force-masters-relay

67END

59WP

42CRIT

42ALA

69EXP=1.71 increase in damage, 1.68 mitigation, .92% healing

 

or

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/4385-1012/expert-nano-optic-resolve-system

Augmented(+18END, +12WP) for me and I can wear @ lvl 49 mind you!!!

68END

72WP

25CRIT

40SUR

29ALA

 

For the sake of arugument we will say END is a wash. My "naked" damage bonus is 92.9

FROM A DAMAGE STANDPOINT:

Going to recruit:

New Damage Bonus: 106.7

EXP increase: 125 DAMAGE

 

Expert Nano: = +14.4 DAMAGE

No EXP increase: 107.3 DAMAGE

 

This is an 18HP damage difference....NOMINAL. When you consider that your crit rating was nerfed because of the lower main stat & your surge is NON-EXISTENT.... NOMINAL EXCHANGE. Then you also lump in the fact that the higher EXP goes, the LESS it contributes to the "damage increase".....NOMINAL EXCHANGE.. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED SINCE 1.2... This is one of the "BEST" pieces. I can show you a TON OF WORST trades, and this is just from the damage perspective. Mitigation and heals are FAR worst. ONCE AGAIN TIER FOR TIER PvE is still sufficent to PvP. The problem is wearing lvl 47 greens in the 50 bracket. They are actually undergeared for PvE. Trust me, no one in 100% recruit gear will be viable in post 50 PvE (Raids and HM flashpoints at least).

 

RECRUIT GEAR IS ONLY FOR THOSE WHO:

A. Don't want to do dailies.

B. Don't Raid/FP.

PS: EXP Healing bonus is ONLY for healing output from yourself, not taken from others players or PvP medpaks, and even if it did, you MAIN and POW/FOR/TECH contributes to your healing bonus as well, so you again are taking away MAIN for little EXP gains from a heals perspective.

So again moral of the story: if you dont have lvl 49/50 epics buy the recruit set.....

I think you're missing something about how important expertise is now. I have wrecked people in rakata in nothing but recruit gear. Its like beating a tied up goat. BW has even said that the recruit set is better for pvp than any pve gear.

you must be on a small server if your q is that long, how hard is it to inform the 7 other people (or 15 if you're doing same side pvp) to grab the recruit gear? I'm sure they aren't all fresh 50s and it would be a welcome credit sink for them that isn't as expensive as legacy.

Please tell me your server and alt names, btw, I'd love to run some warzones with you in 10-49, and I'll only use standard gear.

you must be on a small server if your q is that long, how hard is it to inform the 7 other people (or 15 if you're doing same side pvp) to grab the recruit gear? I'm sure they aren't all fresh 50s and it would be a welcome credit sink for them that isn't as expensive as legacy.

 

Please tell me your server and alt names, btw, I'd love to run some warzones with you in 10-49, and I'll only use standard gear.

Veela is near the bottom for server population. No excuse not to have recruit gear.