Took you from 3.0 to 6.0 fix the nerf you guys did to lightning sorcs/telekenatic sages and you guys are wanting to nerf sorcs again? For real? Why do you developers hate sorcerers? I mean if you wanna fix anything why not fix it where healer sorcs/sages has a better tactical then the two crappy ones they have? Seriously what is the deal with you all and taking a shot at sorcs/sages?

 

This is as bad as NiM raiders who prefer to have assassins/shadow tanks cause they can cheat mechanics cause of the stealth out.

 

I'm tired of these preferences to specific classes and honestly Developers you guys need to just tell people to learn the effing specs and stop having preferences instead of catering to these people. I'm sorry but a sorc is squishy as heck in pvp and if they are having an issue taking a sorc down they aren't playing their darn role right it has nothing to do with a set bonus that is making it OP. I get my butt handed to me all the time in PVP and get ganked and I can go down, 1v1 me and you will have an issue getting me down. Same with any other class, 1v1 it's gonna take awhile to get the person down, as it should be, hints why people gank, it's called take the person down quick.

 

Just leave sorcs/sages alone, we've been suffering enough for years cause you guys don't know how to nerf things cause when you do you make the class were it is insufficient to other classes and people need to realize something. This is a game, everyone should be allowed to enjoy this game and have an even playing field whatever class they want to play with any other class of that spec. What I mean is is that if a Lightning Sorc that gets all the same stuff that say an IO merc does, gets 306 item rating, gets their appropriate set bonus gear, applies on all the new augments, the appropriate tactical and the right amplifier for their spec, they should be able to do the same amount of DPS output no matter what they are playing. Tanks should have all even footing in ability to generate the same agro threat, and have an even playing ground with an assassin tank (meaning that boss fights in HM and NiM OPS need to block it where if an assasin tank drops out through stealth out that there is something the boss will do to block that ability from cheating a mechanic or stopping the tank from getting a DOT that a Powertech or a Jugg would get cause they can't stealth out).

 

Also and I hate to say this but you have not ever been able to figure out how to nerf a class without it effecting them in both PVP and PVE and that's not fair to the sorc/sage class or any other class at that matter.

 

Honestly the point of SWTOR is to be a game that the person subscribing can play and play their way without dealing with their prefered specs being discriminated against or worried they will be nerfed.

 

I don't care if people don't like my arguments I'm tired of lighting sorcs getting the brunt end of the stick and I don't want to see them nerfed after what happened in 3.0 so I am making my feelings known if they are gonna do it than they need to change the entire system for all classes so all can put out the same playing field or just leave it alone and tell people to learn their spec instead of going straight to a nerf especially when they can't nerf without causing a major hurt to the class they nerf that makes it where those classes or no longer wanted in content because the nerf made them bad and the others better.

 

Add-on: I was told this nerf has been postponed meaning it could happen at a later time and I just want my opinion on this out there cause the developers have in the past been very bad when it comes to nerfing classes, especially when the complaints come from the PVP community.

Edited January 24, 2020 by DarthEnrique

I predicted this would happen because the noobs in pvp were calling them OP.

According to the dev tracker, they are in fact leaving the sorc class alone. At least for the time being.

According to the dev tracker, they are in fact leaving the sorc class alone. At least for the time being.

 

Yeah, but it’s temporary. They will still nerf and F up the class again like they always do.

It should be 100% apparent after so many years that they hate the class

This is as bad as NiM raiders who prefer to have assassins/shadow tanks cause they can cheat mechanics cause of the stealth out.

.

 

As much as the proposed changes to sorc DPS aren't welcome and sorc healers do deserve better tacticals, please stop using the forums and this situation as an excuse to vent and throw about your misconceptions. As amply pointed out in the last thread. NiM raiders choose players not classes. All tanks are viable. Give it a rest ffs

As much as the proposed changes to sorc DPS aren't welcome and sorc healers do deserve better tacticals, please stop using the forums and this situation as an excuse to vent and throw about your misconceptions. As amply pointed out in the last thread. NiM raiders choose players not classes. All tanks are viable. Give it a rest ffs

 

Agreed 100%.

 

 

@DarthEnrique - If the tank is throwing tantrums or gets toxic toward others, he can be the best tank in the game and I would not play with him. That is an easy decision. Worse is when you have a good natured person you like and are friend with, but they are just unable to learn to use correct timing of DCDs, positioning and swapping - even after few evenings of trying to teach them. If the person is dragging others down and shows no signs of progress, it is best to agree to not take them to nim and stay friends and run easier content with them, otherwise you risk getting annoyed with them and breaking the friendship, and it is not worth it. Third and most common case is when someone is unwilling to admit a mistake, or blatantly lying (for example about using a DCD or something - we can see it in SP when and if it was activated or not). Each of those cases is absolutely tied to the player and not to their choice of class.

 

As a healer I really like the jugg/sin duo when it comes to nim tanking, sin has some nice skills and utilities for cheesing up mechanics, but the jugg can hold his own in this manner with reflect and mad dash (ie it does not matter if you cheese Kelsara's Doom with Shroud or with Reflect when it nets the same result). We have raided also with 2 sins or 2 juggs, often depending on whatever the tanks felt like playing on that day, and we had no issue with it - again, the players are what you bring into raid and not the class. We trust that they know the fights and know their class and can do whatever is necessary for the team to be successful, and we do not care how they choose to do it. In similar way they trust us healers to be able to keep the team alive through unavoidable damage (and helping to correct the mistakes that people do and take avoidable damage) and they never ask us to bring a different class of a healer, if we can do our job (2 merc healers can be better than 2 sorc healers, but since we can kill the boss with 2 sorcs, there is no need to switch to fotm class, especially when you know you can do it on class you are playing and having fun on).

 

@OP - while I agree that the proposed changes to dps specs (that will not be in next patch) were not making much sense, I very disagree that sorcs should be left alone. You probably meant Lightning spec. But Madness can use a bit of love and Corruption even more, so I am looking forward to changes when they are finalized. I think our feedback sent a strong message that the changes need to be redone and all 3 specs must be taken into consideration when changing the sets and skills. But leaving the sorc alone would keep current status quo, where madness and corruption is not doing well enough, which I doubt is what you or anyone wants to happen...

Edited January 24, 2020 by Sandrosw

The Lightning sorcs are in a good place but the other two specs are in a bad spot and madness is in a really bad spot when compaired to lightning.

 

Now i love lightning it is the main spec i play on my sorc because well lightning sparky sparky but i do dabble in the other two specs mainly healing and i'm going to say it healing on a sorc is crap... it's really crap when you compair it to the other two healers the merc and op.

 

But the question remains what to do with them? The sorc finally has a spec that can preform well in NIM ops and PvP as a dps and no get looks of *** are they doing here but get nods of respect from their fellow play but like you said people in PvP are having issues with them and as much i think every PvP should just learn to deal with them but you know if any class beats another class they are OP right? But really it's a learn to play issue are they strong yes can they be beating oh god yes and easily if you play your cards right will i tell you how no go learn it yourself.

DarthEnrique is 1000% correct. When the nerfs come out, it is ALWAYS because the noobs in pvp simply cannot defeat a class as quickly as they would like. SO, they start the posts about whichever class they don't like being "too OP", the devs IMMEDIATELY capitulate, and PVE folks get boned. Lightning Sorcs were at the bottom of the parse barrel for FIVE FRIGGIN YEARS, they get some buffs for TWO MONTHS, noob pvpers start to whimper and whine, and the very first thing the devs come up with is: "time to nerf lightning sorcs". WT actual F??

 

If it's true that they've backed off for the time being, bravo. Now they need to grow some thicker skin and stop letting the crybaby pvpers control the game. Let them whine. Just like infants, they'll cry themselves to sleep.

 

I would hate to see another mass of players quit because the devs cannot tell the noobs to SHUT THE F UP and learn to play properly.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Dockoliday

Sorcs getting nerf? This is beyond stupid, I tried playing sorc and main assassin, its like night and day, sorcs hit too weak for the class that is sooooo squishy. If someone, or more specifically devs don't know how it usually works, I will explain plain and short. If the class is F*cking squishy, it hits like a f*cking horse hoove to the head. I think I made my point clear. Either give sorcs survivability buff, or buff their damage, it's really simple.

I care not about OP's Biases, the truth is, they're right.... Sorc/Sage has been one of the most crapped upon and nerfed into the ground classes since forever, Lightning / TK most of all, and despite that I've always played the class.

 

Now Lightning / TK is actually viable again (despite the nigh on useless new skill that doesn't proc all the necessary things it's supposed to replace) and people are falling all over themselves.

 

you know how many times I've managed to steal aggro off a tank with lightning, pre-6.0? never, unless you count really bad AND really undergeard tanks. Even my poor Arsenal Merc could manage that (another class that's taken reualr beating from the bat) . Now? I can't do it often, but on sloppy tanks when my lightning GCD hits 1.1s I can do it if I forget my threat dump. and THAT is a proper measure of effectiveness of a class.... lightning is finally effective to the point it actually need to use threat dump.... ya know, like all the other classes.

Ive said it once before and i will say it again sorc atm is a glass canon without Ammo .

i love the class played it since the beta ffs and its always has had the issue that people dont like playing against them and rather get 2 shot by any other class then have a fair fight vs a sorc

Ive said it once before and i will say it again sorc atm is a glass canon without Ammo .

i love the class played it since the beta ffs and its always has had the issue that people dont like playing against them and rather get 2 shot by any other class then have a fair fight vs a sorc

 

I think it's the visual effects, Weak minds are intimidated by all the purple cracklies

I predicted this would happen because the noobs in pvp were calling them OP.

I'd love it if my sorcerer was OP in her damage output in PvP, even for a day! I think it's "people" moaning because I/we spec to survive and are not the squishy instant kills they're expecting or were used to. Being able to survive ruins their "watch me one shot kill this sorc" stream, ruining their epeen status so they cry "OP"

I'd love it if my sorcerer was OP in her damage output in PvP, even for a day! I think it's "people" moaning because I/we spec to survive and are not the squishy instant kills they're expecting or were used to. Being able to survive ruins their "watch me one shot kill this sorc" stream, ruining their epeen status so they cry "OP"

 

Sad but true

I have had a few of my guildies do a fair bit of research into this and from what they've told me Light sorc/Telekenetic sages are not even the highest parsing DPS in the game. So that just goes to prove it's just a biased against the spec. This planned nerf is totally unnecessary.

 

Add-on: Also, to the people who claim my supposed "biased", if you are gonna sit here and defend an issue or negate my experiences and flip them on me and make me the problem, then you're part of the problem. I'm here to play a game and have fun, not deal with toxicity, got enough of that in my own personal life. I don't need to come onto a game that I pay my subscription for and deal with the same issues. If there's one thing being the survivor of abuse and rape has taught me, I'm not responsible for other people's wrongful behaviors, statements or actions. So flip it on me all you want, you're just doing what everyone else does in a situation where a person is wronged, flipping it on the recipient, and that'll fall on deaf ears cause I'm not gonna cower and cater to that ever again.

Edited January 31, 2020 by DarthEnrique

DarthEnrique is 1000% correct. When the nerfs come out, it is ALWAYS because the noobs in pvp simply cannot defeat a class as quickly as they would like. SO, they start the posts about whichever class they don't like being "too OP", the devs IMMEDIATELY capitulate, and PVE folks get boned.

 

I would hate to see another mass of players quit because the devs cannot tell the noobs to SHUT THE F UP and learn to play properly.

 

Do you PVP at all? If not you really shouldn't be commenting on whether complaints about some specs overperforming in PVP over the course of the entire game had merit or were just "mad cuz bad."

 

Over the entire course of the game there have been plenty of both. With each round of "balancing" some specs do overperform in PVP (see Arsenal Merc defenses in 5.0, or Sin maul spam & tactical swapping with 6.0) and some of the complaints are warranted.

 

Also its worth nothing that how Bioware responds in the wake of complaints about certain specs overperforming isn't always in a manner that was requested, and not necessarily to the benefit of the class. That isn't players' fault. Returning to 5.0 Arsenal Mercs, the complaints were mainly that they had too many self-healing DCDs for PVP. What did Bioware nerf? Their damage, negatively affecting Arsenal Mercs who ran NiM Ops. No one who understood the class requested that their damage be nerfed.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Aeneas_Falco

I have had a few of my guildies do a fair bit of research into this and from what they've told me Light sorc/Telekenetic sages are not even the highest parsing DPS in the game. So that just goes to prove it's just a biased against the spec. This planned nerf is totally unnecessary.

 

Here's the leaderboard on Parsely that my guild was using in case anyone was wondering what I was making reference to in the quoted.

Edited January 31, 2020 by DarthEnrique

Do you PVP at all? If not you really shouldn't be commenting on whether complaints about some specs overperforming in PVP over the course of the entire game had merit or were just "mad cuz bad."

 

I did. I was there from the beginning. I pvp'd on my Lightning Sorc and TK Sage almost exclusively. I was amazed how I could do so much damage in each zone. Just on my Sorc, I was able to use Force Lightning, Lightning Strikes, Lightning Storm, and Chain Lightning, you name it, at-will. Normally, I was the last one they'd turn their attention too or not worry about during the engagement. Or those who did come for me wouldn't last because I'd light them up. This was before and up to 1.2, then a nerf the likes God has never seen hit these two classes.

 

What was the common theme? Many did not know what their interrupt was for or how to use it. It was incredible that many Sorc/Sages were allowed to turret and not be interrupted. Many didn't think they were much of a threat or so it seemed. The game was newly released at this point, people still learning the classes and how to play them. Today, that is not an excuse, a newly released game. What is credible is players rush to level, in most cases, don't know how to use their abilities and/or play their classes properly. And of course, how to counter and shutdown another class. In this case, the Sorc/Sage.

 

When people realized (like they doing now), that the Lightning Sorc/TK Sage are doing some very strong damage and have good survivability abilities (if they specc'd into them) were not easily killed, especially one v one, they ran to the forums and with loud voices filled with rage and anguish cried out, "Nerf Sorc/Sages they are too powerful. They are OP." The truth of the matter that was not the case. Then, like now, players decry these two classes with the same tired old complaint of "OP-ness!"

 

History of these two classes among all of them in this game is repeated more often than anything else: Nerf class because players rage OP. Buff these classes because they've fallen far behind in every specialization they have, including healing, to the other classes. Nerf classes because players rage OP. Buff...again. Nerf, buff again. Rinse, repeat.

 

As it stands as show by the OP in their last 2 posts, the current situation, these two classes are on the bottom of the DPS standings of all classes. I'm on my 5th or 6th Sorcerer (Lightning) and I can still see how it struggles at times to clear mobs. My DoT spec was so bad, I had to change over to Lightning. Even heals are abysmal. And players returned to the forums, "with loud voices filled with rage and anguish cried out, "Nerf Sorc/Sages they are too powerful. They are OP.""

 

It's been the same problem over and over and over again. Some players raises hell because they were incapable of killing a Sorc/Sage by themselves or with a partner and they both failed to do so. Being a glass cannon does mean it is easily killed and nuked in one rotation. It means it's supposed to have high alpha damage and mediocre defenses (the latter is true; however, the former is mediocre damage). Even then, a good sorc/sage player will know when and how to use their defensive tools and counter whom they are fighting. That is the mark of a good player.

 

The issue here, as it has always been, isn't the Sorc/Sage class, it is those opposing them and not knowing how to counter and shut them down. This is the problem. 8 years in and we're still having the same problem when dealing with the Sorc/Sage classes.

 

I'm glad the developers decided not to swing the nerf pile-driver hammer on my Sorc/Sage class again...for now. Hopefully, they do realize what the true issue is and educates and enlighten new players how to handle it. Much like they did us after the second biggest nerf when we were told, "Heal to full and make them pay!"

Here's the leaderboard on Parsely that my guild was using in case anyone was wondering what I was making reference to in the quoted.

lol the only things on that board are Agent/Smuggler, and a few Marauder/Sentinals

As an operative/scoundrel heal main in NiM/MM- stop crying. My class is the least played healer and even the power creep of 6.0 still allows sorcs a spot at the table- if my class was as weak as they were, we'd be begging for spots in NiM because we're that sensitive to changes. To play one at this level with power creep, you have to be trusted to play an operative/scoundrel healer.

When they nerfed all the healers in 5.x, they ripped through us despite a delay- in which they took away a HoT which is now utility dependent. Yes, we kind of need the double probe/defensive and the HoT but it should be built into our passives. So, we had zip help with burst. We're still considered the worst healers at burst- we can just mitigate it through our HoTs and what burst we do have. They only went after us because as a sustain class, we put out high HPS- in prog or heavy damage sustain fights, we lap up the numbers, otherwise our numbers are quite easily shut down and pointless.

 

I agree that PvP affecting PvE and vice versa is a pain in the *** but I take it as a mark of pride I can play my class at this level despite it being harder. The issue many sorc healers have is they aren't used to the same and at the same time mercs became the easiest by a crazy margin.

 

Personally, I like anyone who can play a tank in NiM. I don't care what class they're playing- if they can tank NiM/MM content, I couldn't care less if they were a PT or a Jugg- and any healer would tell you sins are great at suddenly taking a huge spike.

 

The problem is- the devs aren't going to listen, Lightning will be nerfed, Madness will... I just feel sorry for PvE sorcs who main Madness and Corruption will likely get some epic buff as though the last two expansions of being overtuned for their tools wasn't a problem in which they nerfed the survivability of the DPS specs repeatedly trying to retune the class. I don't think Bioware know how to balance the sorceror/sage advanced class so they keep overreacting and doing what they'd do to any other spec.

 

But to the point, no one's class is special, Bioware will not stop and listen to you irregardless of whatever you post because it's your class.

Here's the leaderboard on Parsely that my guild was using in case anyone was wondering what I was making reference to in the quoted.

 

Needs a DPS nerf, it's higher than Arsenal Merc. Also the survivability of the class is higher with that insta teleport crap in PvP.

 

Nerf it more, then you can justifiably cry just like us Arsenal Mercs that the devs hate the class.

[...]

But to the point, no one's class is special, Bioware will not stop and listen to you irregardless of whatever you post because it's your class.

Except the class IS special.... "Special Education" (read as "nerfed into retardation")..... and every time it gets half a leg up to being a viable competitor, BW comes around and hammers it down ever farther.

Needs a DPS nerf, it's higher than Arsenal Merc. Also the survivability of the class is higher with that insta teleport crap in PvP.

 

Nerf it more, then you can justifiably cry just like us Arsenal Mercs that the devs hate the class.

 

so your argument is that because Arsenal is the second wost treated class by bioware, sorc/sage should be farther nerfed to make them feel more superior to the worst class?... because that makes no kinda sense whatsoever.

TK/Ling does needs their AOE nerfed a bit, imo, but their single target dps is fine. Madness/Balance, however, needs a significant single target dps increase Edited January 31, 2020 by Rion_Starkiller

Unpopular Opinion / Nasty Dasty dons Flame Retardant Hutt suit...

 

Sorcerers / Sages need a buff as a class but a combination of one particular set / tactical combo made Lightning / TK too strong in select circumstances.

 

BW overreached and proposed nerfs that would have impacted all specs of the class as a whole.

 

As someone who plays all classes / specs, I think some readjustment on cooldowns for the set are needed, but only if the class as a whole is compensated in other areas.

 

As a general rule -- when one set combo / tactical is the ONLY one players opt for, there is a problem.

 

Dasty

 

P.S. The above post is not an endorsement of threats of violence or abuse against others.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Jdast