You are right that it should be more balanced in terms of rewards.

 

As someone who does not have time for OPS though, I am not affected by that part of your post. I am however affected by people only running Hammer Station in the group finder. I want to be able to complete my weekly and daily without having to run Hammer Station ALL THE TIME.

 

There must be a way to fix this, so that if I queue for a random FP...I get a random FP!

 

Either reduce the HS reward or make it impossible to skip so many mobs...

 

 

I also find little time for ops. When i tank hammer station, i am practically on auto pilot these days, I would kill for nightmare mode flashpoints where mechanics like the droid and the colored flags in red reaper once again meant instant death if not properly. Even in “master mode”, half the mechanics can be ignored.

 

Then they could add better armor shells as drops, maybe even have every boss drop random gear and not just tiered crap, but shells, relics and tacticals.

 

I can not stand “veteran” flashpoints, it has changed the way people play. “Master mode” was the normal flashpoint and even its almost always easier to run with a balanced team than the mismatched of veteran mode.

 

Perhaps add more Cosmetic rewards, like decorations and armor sets to mastermode flashpoints instead of putting everything on the cartel market, put it out as drops in the world so we get more cheevos

I am unhappy about the the reward structure in SWTOR as I think the current system is overwhelmingly flawed. TLDR: Content that is more difficult and more time consuming should give greater rewards than content that is less difficult and takes less time.

 

Let me start with the issue. Chain running MM Hammer Station is the fastest way to gear and the fastest way to level up renown. Doing one-off conquest objectives is the fastest way to earn conquest points: for example, this week: complete the Dantooine Weekly, kill Ossus world bosses, complete Ziost Weekly. After these are exhausted, story mode operations are one of the fastest conquest earners. What are the fastest ways to make credits (other than playing the GTN or crafting)? Heroics and chain running easy flashpoints like Hammer Station.

 

The problem is that all of these activities require about 7 functioning neurons to complete. Whereas the rewards (be it gear, conquest, credits, renown) from HM/NiM operations, harder MM flashpoints, MM uprisings, or ranked pvp are all dwarfed by these mind-numbingly simple activities.

 

Moreover, even within the set of activities that only necessitate a single digit IQ to complete, there is a complete lack of parity. Completing an unranked war zone is about as hard as completing MM hammer station, yet the rewards from an unranked war zone are hilariously low relative to MM HS.

 

So, what needs to be done? I think the reward system in this game needs to be completely overhauled. The rewards for an activity need to be proportionate to the skill and time required to complete them. I think the following would be a step in the right direction:

 

(1) HM and NiM operations need to have their rewards drastically increased. This is the hardest content in the game so should be rewarded as such (in terms of credits, valuable items, gear, renown, etc.). Some will argue that titles and mounts are enough and that’s, like, your opinion man, but I disagree.

(2) Flashpoints need to have tiered rewards that are commensurate with their difficulty. Completing Blood Hunt should offer a far greater reward than Hammer Station.

(3) Ranked PVP needs higher rewards. Some will argue this will dilute ques, but then again others will argue the ques are too low right now. From a “fairness” perspective, winning ranked pvp matches is not faceroll, so should be rewarded as such.

(4) Unranked PVP needs higher rewards relative to VM flashpoints. Completing a war zone (or winning a war zone) is just as challenging as completing most veteran mode FPs (which is to say not overly challenging) and should be treated more evenly.

 

Ultimately, I think changes in this direction will increase player satisfaction by encouraging people to work towards completing more challenging (and less boring) content and by fostering a sense of fairness in the reward structure.

 

There is no doubt that you are fully correct. As i wrote here - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=974660 and as one guy wrote here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=973681&page=5 the moment devs removed mats rewards from ranked it literally died like team ranked or became much less played like solo ranked. No proper rewards for content = no one bothers to play it

Edited January 23, 2020 by omaan

Just commenting based on what you wrote OP:

 

Since there are content options for obtaining gear, if you c.h.o.o.s.e the quick and easy path, as Vader did, then like Vader, you will become the architect of your own misery.

 

That would not be a Bioware problem, but a you problem.

 

Riôt

Just commenting based on what you wrote OP:

 

Since there are content options for obtaining gear, if you c.h.o.o.s.e the quick and easy path, as Vader did, then like Vader, you will become the architect of your own misery.

 

That would not be a Bioware problem, but a you problem.

 

Riôt

 

As a person who frequently pugs operations and forms groups to pug operations, it takes far longer now even though I'm a tank main, with a healing alt, who runs with a friend healer. I've basically stopped trying any more because I would spend my entire evening trying to simply form a group, then have to play silly games to get the actual op I wanted anyway.

 

So yes, there is a BW problem.

As a person who frequently pugs operations and forms groups to pug operations, it takes far longer now even though I'm a tank main, with a healing alt, who runs with a friend healer. I've basically stopped trying any more because I would spend my entire evening trying to simply form a group, then have to play silly games to get the actual op I wanted anyway.

 

So yes, there is a BW problem.

 

As long as the content is functioning properly, then your issue is solvable with some time and effort on your part. You even have the (likely significant) advantage of not trying to solve this problem as a pair of DPS players.

 

I understand that you may not like that answer, but that doesn't make it untrue. Nor does it make the issue a Bioware problem. Since you are starting with 2, it really should not be too difficult to find 6 more people that want to run Ops on a regular basis. Apologies if there is a significant advantage (factual, not perceived) to running 16-man over 8-man, as I would be ignorant of that at this time. Finding 14 more people that are reliable would indeed be a much tougher row to hoe.

 

Riôt

As long as the content is functioning properly, then your issue is solvable with some time and effort on your part. You even have the (likely significant) advantage of not trying to solve this problem as a pair of DPS players.

 

I understand that you may not like that answer, but that doesn't make it untrue. Nor does it make the issue a Bioware problem. Since you are starting with 2, it really should not be too difficult to find 6 more people that want to run Ops on a regular basis. Apologies if there is a significant advantage (factual, not perceived) to running 16-man over 8-man, as I would be ignorant of that at this time. Finding 14 more people that are reliable would indeed be a much tougher row to hoe.

 

Riôt

 

I think you don't understand the reality of the situation. In an ideal world rewards don't matter, but they do. It means that ppl do the most easy thing that gets them said reward, which means MM hammerstation spam. The person you're telling it's his personal problem actually doesn't want to do MM hammerstation because it's brain-dead and horrible. The sad thing is he can't do anything else because what options are there, when everyone else can't get enough of hammerstation. Conclusion: it's a definite Bioware problem

I think you don't understand the reality of the situation. In an ideal world rewards don't matter, but they do. It means that ppl do the most easy thing that gets them said reward, which means MM hammerstation spam. The person you're telling it's his personal problem actually doesn't want to do MM hammerstation because it's brain-dead and horrible. The sad thing is he can't do anything else because what options are there, when everyone else can't get enough of hammerstation. Conclusion: it's a definite Bioware problem

 

Apologies, but I responded to two different people, who had two different foci relating to the same topic, so I don't know which one you are referring to.

 

In general - you can run Ops if you have a reliable group with which to run them. You also have the option of running Flashpoints with said group. If you don't have said group, some time and effort can fix that, opening all options. Bioware has already done their part in this deal by providing multiple avenues, and a Group Finder function for each of them.

 

Bioware cannot do anything about what path people choose to take when one is shown to be advantageous over the others, and it is a fallacy to believe otherwise. As long as the rewards can be obtained in Hammer, it will be the go-to, no matter what changes they might make to Ops to incentivize running them. Even making Hammer take longer to run wouldn't make any real difference. This is the actual reality of the situation, and I do understand it quite well.

 

Getting down to the nitty-gritty, my baseline point to both the OP, and the other I responded to, is that they are blaming Bioware for their self-caused issue, and are expecting that Bioware should do something to fix it, rather than taking the time and effort to fix it themselves. This is not only a backwards way of thinking, but also self-destructive.

 

Riôt

As long as the content is functioning properly, then your issue is solvable with some time and effort on your part. You even have the (likely significant) advantage of not trying to solve this problem as a pair of DPS players.

 

I understand that you may not like that answer, but that doesn't make it untrue. Nor does it make the issue a Bioware problem. Since you are starting with 2, it really should not be too difficult to find 6 more people that want to run Ops on a regular basis. Apologies if there is a significant advantage (factual, not perceived) to running 16-man over 8-man, as I would be ignorant of that at this time. Finding 14 more people that are reliable would indeed be a much tougher row to hoe.

 

Riôt

 

Actually the basic content doesnt work properly either because you can only enter ops if you're level 70 when it should be 50.

 

Besides that, I do not have an unlimited playtime. I would love to have nothing better to do than spend 6 hours sitting around forming and doing an op, but unfortunately, I have a job and real life to worry about to. So the 3 hours it takes to find a group, combined with the time it takes to do it, combined with the inevitable required explanations and wipes in story mode because the average player of this game is seemingly horrible or anyone good is off solo stealthing red reaper make it next to impossible for me to participate in ops any more.

 

And I would love to be able to do things as 2 dps players, or to not always be the raid lead. But unfortunately that is the only way I have found to reliably, if infinitesimally slowly, get a group together.

 

So yes, BW needs to incentivize ops, or people will simply spam stealth reaper. Because if you can get the same gear without the time commitment, why wouldnt you? I in fact got to 306 by duoing stealth reaper with my aforementioned friend.

 

If it's taking me 2-3 hours to get a pug SM together when I'm providing half or 2/3 of the support roles depending on the op, there are obviously very few people trying to do ops.

 

Oh and PS: in the early days of 5.0 they sure managed to quash power nerf any means people found of farming. I guess they really do change.

Edited January 24, 2020 by KendraP

Actually the basic content doesnt work properly either because you can only enter ops if you're level 70 when it should be 50.

 

Besides that, I do not have an unlimited playtime. I would love to have nothing better to do than spend 6 hours sitting around forming and doing an op, but unfortunately, I have a job and real life to worry about to. So the 3 hours it takes to find a group, combined with the time it takes to do it, combined with the inevitable required explanations and wipes in story mode because the average player of this game is seemingly horrible or anyone good is off solo stealthing red reaper make it next to impossible for me to participate in ops any more.

 

And I would love to be able to do things as 2 dps players, or to not always be the raid lead. But unfortunately that is the only way I have found to reliably, if infinitesimally slowly, get a group together.

 

So yes, BW needs to incentivize ops, or people will simply spam stealth reaper. Because if you can get the same gear without the time commitment, why wouldnt you? I in fact got to 306 by duoing stealth reaper with my aforementioned friend.

 

If it's taking me 2-3 hours to get a pug SM together when I'm providing half or 2/3 of the support roles depending on the op, there are obviously very few people trying to do ops.

 

Oh and PS: in the early days of 5.0 they sure managed to quash power nerf any means people found of farming. I guess they really do change.

 

Always with you, it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?

 

Just in the course of this discussion and thread, you have found a few potential people to reach out to, and help fix your shared problem. It's doubtful, but perhaps you have. Perhaps it didn't work out for various reasons, but that isn't the point. The point, is that this is how simple it really is, if only you get off your hindquarters, and invest the time to solve the problem. You will likely have to network with quite a few people to get a solid foundation, but that time spent pays huge dividends, starting with not having to pick up (many, if any) others to run whatever content your group (not necessarily you, this is important) want to run that day, and you probably won't have to spend a lot of time with explanations and/or wipes.

 

It gets better, too - once your time investment has yielded 6-8 other players, there is a good chance that this core group could also play other MMO's, or other types of games together as well. This is how it actually works (and quite well), as opposed to putting the onus on the developer, which doesn't work at all. Nor should it.

 

So, you can try to do this yourself if you want, but it will likely take some time. Alternatively, you can spend some time in (presumably) Fleet chat, and see who is frequently putting together groups for Ops (or whatever) over a span of a couple of weeks. These folks are already doing this legwork for you, and if you and your friend are as good as you claim, then you should be able to just join up with one of those persons/small groups, and achieve your goal that way. I'll just go ahead and repeat that if you utilize this method just to get something run today, you have missed the point completely. Again.

 

Bolded portion: This is a choice, and you can choose not to do that. You might think it foolish to follow a different path, and that is an opinion, but it is factually foolish to be the architect of your own misery.

 

So now, you have the choice of continuing as you have been, knowing the results already, or you can do (not try) what I have suggested, and reap a greater bounty.

 

Make wise choices. Good luck.

 

Riôt

Edited January 24, 2020 by lordofdamornin

I like this system. Subscribe. Level stealthy to 75. Cancel sub. Solo MM RR. Equip worthless 306 gear. Return to decorating and Space-Barbie.

My "core group" quit this game a long time ago. I keep trying to come back, desperate to find something I enjoy, but it doesn't exist any more.

 

This game now consists of elitist jerks and the crowd that's here for space barbie. There is apparently very little middle ground. I used to sit on fleet looking for and forming groups regularly. It's too slow for me to do on a regular basis any more. I have better things to do in the 3 hours I have in the evening than sit around for 2 of them spamming for group members.

 

But it would seem I am in fact the minority. People are happy with endgame consisting of 2 bosses and an FP as long as new gear gets added to the CM for them to spend real money on every week. People are fine with endlessly spamming the easiest content in the game, that's not even max level, to get gear that shouldn't matter for anything except 2 bosses (because nothing else is endgame).

 

For me, there's nothing left to do. I don't care to spam red reaper repeatedly for 3 hours every day, and I don't have the time to spend 3 hours forming a group for a simple op that's going to take another 3 hours to finish because of the sheer incompetence of the average player. I just ruined PvP for myself the other day, so that's out. I've levelled over 50 characters of all classes at this point, so that's been solidly beaten to death too.

 

I recently added sub time because Mr. Musco was showing promise in his posts. I discover, that, once again, I am in an obvious minority and thus, not important. Thus, I can no longer really blame Mr. Musco and co. I now place the blame where I suppose I should have for far longer - my apparently high expectations combined with the fact that this game has been utterly reduced to space dress up. I enjoy space barbie every now and then as much as anyone. But in this game, that's the only reason to even bother playing. Apparently expecting an actual max level endgame is simply too high an expectation for Mr Musco et al and the playerbase of this game.

Edited January 24, 2020 by KendraP

The system reflects the current state of the game and it’s population and how it’s shrunk over the years like any MMO in a genre that’s been declining. This has meant little structural support for competitive content as that has always been a minority and requires a base to support. This system is also very easy to maintain which helps with how things are run. Groups mostly run because they have stayed together over the years. This game is very casual and non competitive and reward structure has been shifted to reflect that. The biggest thing is by making Swtor not the only game you play as I did that for years. Once I found that in other games, playing this game very casually and drop in and out is much more pleasant experience. Accepting the realities of the situation and the game for what it is the best course. I once thought that radical change would fix things but it’s not realistic for this game. Honestly if you aren’t enjoying it as I found the last few years it’s best to play this on the side or find another game. That’s what I did.

As long as the content is functioning properly, then your issue is solvable with some time and effort on your part. You even have the (likely significant) advantage of not trying to solve this problem as a pair of DPS players.

 

I understand that you may not like that answer, but that doesn't make it untrue. Nor does it make the issue a Bioware problem. Since you are starting with 2, it really should not be too difficult to find 6 more people that want to run Ops on a regular basis. Apologies if there is a significant advantage (factual, not perceived) to running 16-man over 8-man, as I would be ignorant of that at this time. Finding 14 more people that are reliable would indeed be a much tougher row to hoe.

 

Riôt

 

You are totally wrong here. It is bioware work to keep content alive. If they wont provide proper periodic rewards for certain content then players simply ignore this game content. When team ranked had mats it was active almost 24/7 many players used to participate in it. Now when they removed mats people quited from team ranked, organising fights became unreal (no one wants to form a team at all because team ranked provides nothing). In the end, players unsub and quit swtor simply because swtor can't provide them content they enjoyed or used to play before.

The system reflects the current state of the game and it’s population and how it’s shrunk over the years like any MMO in a genre that’s been declining. This has meant little structural support for competitive content as that has always been a minority and requires a base to support. This system is also very easy to maintain which helps with how things are run. Groups mostly run because they have stayed together over the years. This game is very casual and non competitive and reward structure has been shifted to reflect that. The biggest thing is by making Swtor not the only game you play as I did that for years. Once I found that in other games, playing this game very casually and drop in and out is much more pleasant experience. Accepting the realities of the situation and the game for what it is the best course. I once thought that radical change would fix things but it’s not realistic for this game. Honestly if you aren’t enjoying it as I found the last few years it’s best to play this on the side or find another game. That’s what I did.

After not being able to play for almost a year now, these are my sentiments exactly. Got that Star Wars itch again and I'm going to treat this game fairly casually from now on. As much as I would love for it to have an ultra competitive PvP focus I realize now that isn't going to happen. While I'll always be a PvP'er before anything, it'll be best to try to participate in other forms of content and take any breaks necessary if it starts to get monotonous and stale, and then come back with a fresh set of eyes when I want my SW fix again.