Originally Posted by zodden

LOL

 

The combat log will be used to ruin this game like it helped do to WoW. People will be forced into specs for raiding and then measured and then excluded without cookie cutter builds.

 

I hope they don't ever add it.

I want to express my point of view.

If you're playing with a group of 8 ppl (example) you're not alone playing, that's a fact.

If you want to use the rabbit launcher that "It's so cool, who matters if it does 1 dmg?!" and the boss isn't going down for lack of dps (example) , you're ruining the other 7 ppl raid.

Combat logs it's the way to fix (or prevent) huge mistakes during the encounter. If you just don't mind if boss dies or not it's not a raid problem, but your.

i want to express my point of view.

If you're playing with a group of 8 ppl (example) you're not alone playing, that's a fact.

mind = blown

Thank you Captain Obvious , nothing gets by you.

 

Should we call you Perkunas , Hand of Adal?

 

or just Perkunas

Still the attempted mocking. Alas, there's no chance for an intelligent conversation with you.

Still the attempted mocking. Alas, there's no chance for an intelligent conversation with you.

Dont let that stop you from trying Hand of Perkunas

P.S.

wait a minute I see what your trying to do here, introduce the paradox.

Intelligent conversation about Video Games?

This is a good thing. Means you have to perform!

I agree, the combat log is a good thing and it makes you perform. My first MMO, I hated when people posted my dps along with everyone else's. I was at or near the bottom every time. Nevertheless, this made me better. It made me learn how to properly set up rotations and not just button mash my skills. It was easy to pick up, and almost immediately I was at or near the top or the lists. IMO, players for whom TOR is their first MMO would have a difficult time raiding in another MMO in which these numbers games and dps races really matter. Some might say that that is why TOR more fun. Maybe so, but to me it is what alienates many long-time MMO players, and might chase us to another game. I think that, on some level, Bioware believes that the skill level is up because we have been denied things like the combat log and macros, but trust me, the general skill level is down. There does need to be a solution to this matter, and it does need to be quick. I think that if it goes beyond 1.2 might almost be too late. I strongly believe that some of the players who have left this game already would still be here if some of the most common and essential staples of these games had not been left out of TOR without the introduction of an alternative solution. As it is, this game feels like something from a long time ago...

What difference would that make.

 

WoW will always be known as the EASY MMO and the MMO that introduced the watered down style of gaming we're now stuck with.

 

No one is impressed with your WoW raid acheivements, they mean nothing.

few of its boss fights are still hardest boss fights in MMO raiding history. You acn ofc watch your eq1 raids and **** via rose tinted glasses as much as you want.

Dont let that stop you from trying Hand of Perkunas

 

P.S.

 

wait a minute I see what your trying to do here, introduce the paradox.

 

Intelligent conversation about Video Games?

Disregarding the computer and/or video games as a medium potentially fostering intelligent discussion is both ignorant and, based on your previous replies, indication of what I would personally attribute to simple lack of intelligence. Either way, following your logic I assume you'll say the same of movies? Even fiction as well? I guess only Foucault and the like is good enough for you. Alas, I guess that is the unfortunate lot of us adults from your perspective, right?

I do, however, sympathise with you; you seem hell-bent intent on convincing yourself that as an adult, you should be barred from actively influencing or perhaps, in your ideal world, outright participating in what you deem childish activities.

Oh, and not to derail thread: Of course a combat log is needed. The game should be as transparent as possible in order to guarantee everybody a good experience. And yes, it includes combat parsers. It would illuminate class discrepancies and help induce community-forced balance changes where due (not to be misunderstood as 'mindless QQ causing knee-jerk buffing and nerfing of various classes).

few of its boss fights are still hardest boss fights in MMO raiding history. You acn ofc watch your eq1 raids and **** via rose tinted glasses as much as you want.

Though if you ARE talking about hardest MMO boss fights in MMO history then you are talking about EQ1 raids. WoW raids aren't even a blip on the radar compared to those and certainly aren't the 'hardest ever devised' - even today there are much harder raids in EQ2 that haven't even been seriously touched.

It isn't rose-colored glasses really - just a different time and entirely different skill set trying to coordinate 72 different people on the same target without aid of voice, add-ons, screen prompts, etc. - things that most modern MMO's utilitize to make the process manageable.

/derail off

Since when is a combat log a DPS meter?? I just want to know what hit me for how much. PRETTY FREAKING BASIC!

I agree. When I'm sitting at over 1/3 health, have a companion healing me, and all of the sudden I'm dead, I want to know what kind of shot hit me.

I agree. When I'm sitting at over 1/3 health, have a companion healing me, and all of the sudden I'm dead, I want to know what kind of shot hit me.

Karma.

It's a little pathetic you would take any game this seriously.

 

" truth revealed behind their performance " honestly , we are taking about a video game right?

 

Keep in mind , video games are for children. Something you grow out of as you grow up.

 

Adults should be getting on to adult things.

 

But fine you're here, don't make it worse by bringing your performance anxiety and ego needs into that game as well.

 

If you're going to occupy your time with childrens activities then you should surrender to that theme wholeheartedly by acting like a child to.

 

Carefree , lighthearted and just having fun.

You do know that "Hello Kitty Island" is a real game? You should check it out.

http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

Since when is a combat log a DPS meter?? I just want to know what hit me for how much. PRETTY FREAKING BASIC!

Combat logs lead to meters. Unless Bioware somehow makes it impossible to get the data from the game, someone, somewhere will makea a meter.

Combat logs lead to meters. Unless Bioware somehow makes it impossible to get the data from the game, someone, somewhere will makea a meter.

This. I and many others hope to high heaven that a combat log is never implemented. As soon as it is there will be DPS meters and that's the end of that. Right now it's nice not to have to deal with all that nonsense, and is one of the positive, differentiating features of the game.

Please no combat logs or damage meters. Without those I can afk all night in raids and collect free loot because nobody can tell I'm not fighting. Seriously, who needs that anyway!

But you can't because we don't have the lame x-server queue lobby which affords you the anonymity needed to be a tail and ruin it for your party members by not pulling your weight.

You'd simply be kicked from group and never invited to go again.

Plenty of groups are clearing this content without the need for them, if your struggling without them I fear for you.

Please no combat logs or damage meters. Without those I can afk all night in raids and collect free loot because nobody can tell I'm not fighting. Seriously, who needs that anyway!

Add LFR and hope that no one sets Master Looter.

Score a trifecta

You'd simply be kicked from group and never invited to go again.

 

Plenty of groups are clearing this content without the need for them, if your struggling without them I fear for you.

I wouldn't be kicked for the simple reason that nobody would have the means to find out. As long as I move up with the group and watch tv while mashing the same button over and over you'd never find out I'm not doing anything anyway. Especially since 99% of mechanics in this game don't kill you if you don't avoid them, so all mechanics I'm tanking while watching TV would just be turned into the healer's problem, with no clear log to tell anyone I'm standing in everything.

I wouldn't be kicked for the simple reason that nobody would have the means to find out. As long as I move up with the group and watch tv while mashing the same button over and over you'd never find out I'm not doing anything anyway. Especially since 99% of mechanics in this game don't kill you if you don't avoid them, so all mechanics I'm tanking while watching TV would just be turned into the healer's problem, with no clear log to tell anyone I'm standing in everything.

pretty sure the healer would know or maybe he will be just like you and focus on the tank and spam the same button repeatedly

Yes people slack.. Had one idiot playing his PS3 on a progression run... that was his last raid with us.

pretty sure the healer would know or maybe he will be just like you and focus on the tank and spam the same button repeatedly

 

Yes people slack.. Had one idiot playing his PS3 on a progression run... that was his last raid with us.

Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them. To me that's like saying a screwdriver is evil because, while it has perfectly valid uses, it can also be used to stab someone to death. Those people who are liable to misuse meters will simply find a different metric to rely on, and they'll misuse that one instead.

I remember when damage meters were first introduced in WoW, I think it was BWL at the time. It was an eye opener, our top dps were doing something like 10 to 20 times more damage than our bottom dps, that's insane. The reason was many of them just essentially afk wanded/auto attacked their way to victory. They couldn't go all out because of threat caps (since we were horde), and instead they went in the extreme opposite direction.

Know what happened when we saw those meters? We did nothing as leadership, we didn't have to. People realized they were screwing around and not contributing, and they changed. Some were never great dps, we still did nothing, because we didn't care about being some top guild that expects top performance from everybody. I'm glad we had those meters though. If people hadn't started trying a little harder because of them, we certainly would have never killed C'thun or gotten anywhere in Naxx.

Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

 

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them. To me that's like saying a screwdriver is evil because, while it has perfectly valid uses, it can also be used to stab someone to death. Those people who are liable to misuse meters will simply find a different metric to rely on, and they'll misuse that one instead.

 

I remember when damage meters were first introduced in WoW, I think it was BWL at the time. It was an eye opener, our top dps were doing something like 10 to 20 times more damage than our bottom dps, that's insane. The reason was many of them just essentially afk wanded/auto attacked their way to victory. They couldn't go all out because of threat caps (since we were horde), and instead they went in the extreme opposite direction.

 

Know what happened when we saw those meters? We did nothing as leadership, we didn't have to. People realized they were screwing around and not contributing, and they changed. Some were never great dps, we still did nothing, because we didn't care about being some top guild that expects top performance from everybody. I'm glad we had those meters though. If people hadn't started trying a little harder because of them, we certainly would have never killed C'thun or gotten anywhere in Naxx.

If a DPS is trying I have no problem helping them out.. but yes there are people who will slack and wand their way through for the shinies at the end.

I can also see the problem with them with people using them to bash others. The whole thing needs to be looked at and thought about.

COmbat logs for raids for sure.. FOr PuG groups perhaps a more summarized system would be good.

say directive 7.. it requires each player to do x DPS in order to complete.. anyone who is doing over x DPS gets a green light.. anyone under gets a red light... TBH this is only useful for bosses anyway... Healer/ tank combo is next.. Does the tank have enougth mit/avoidance for the encounter green and red again.. and same with healer.. Just display the lights after the boss is dead or the wipe happens.

SOme lights may be red and you still do it but if all are green then you know all are pulling their weight.

Yes it is work but would surely stop a lot of the rubbish that goes on with spamming the meters and kicking because person x is not doing enougth DPS for a super fast run.

Honestly if they're melee you probably wouldn't even be able to tell since this game throws damage at melee so much that you wonder why you bothered to bring any.

 

The point is simply that combat log and meters are valuable tools. They allow raid leaders to identify the issue. There is nothing wrong with these tools, the thing some people take issue with is the way some raid leaders will choose to use them.

Raid leaders? Seriously, you just think only raid leaders will have access to them? In WoW everyone had access to everyone else's combat damage, not just raid leaders and not just in raids. You really have to look at the bigger picture, and what impact these things will have as opposed to the small world of raiding.

Are you even listening to what people are saying? You keep coming back to the fact that we are personally afraid of being excluded from content based on a parse.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I don't want to see you linked parse in every /1 general chat.

I don't want to see the constant bantering back and forth that occurs when it comes to an exposed underperforming member in /1 chat

I don't want to get a group for a flashpoint, after 1 pull, a parse posted and vote kick ensues to kick the lowest performing member and now I have to wait 15 minutes to find a replacement to continue.

I don't want to see "LF1 Sage DPS, must be Balance specced" for an encounter.

 

In short - I don't want the SOCIAL CESS-POOL these tools create, so that you can have your epeen measuring stick, in a game that doesn't require it, because people are clearing NM content every single day on servers all across America.

Guns can kill people bro... That doesn't mean every gun owner is a murderer.

A parser/log will not "ruin" a community. If you don't like the way a leader is running a raid, don't play with them.. It's really that simple.