Really if I'm trolling prove it that you know for sure that pugs are never grouped with premades.

 

Your trolling was called, but still you insist that we buy it? How cute.

The people who enjoy pugstomping on a regular basis are mediocre players and/or players with irl issues. They need to feel better about themselves either in game in real life or both. You will never convince them that they shouldn't get to stomp pugs.

 

Most of the good premaders quit SWTOR long ago since there isn't much competition here and pugstomping is boring for good players without irl issues.

 

Instead of arguing with them just focus on discussing the negatives for casual players and the larger number of casual players in mmos.

 

The main issues do no relate to voice chat. When I led pvp guilds we of course used voice chat but sometimes we were lazy and we did not and yet we still wrecked. In SWTOR the main issue is how well taunts/guarding and heals work together as well as premades being allowed to make up 50% of a wz. Also super q'n is pretty easy to pull off.

 

Mediocre players in good gear and with the right composition should easily win against most pugs. The softcap to skill for most classes is very low and while great players will still be far better than mediocre players the easiness of most classes allows 4 mediocre players who have taunts and heals to be a very strong team.

 

For example, pug healing against a much stronger team takes a lot of skill to be great at. However, healing when you are not pressured is laughably easy. Also, smash is a very popular spec but many of the smashers who do very well in premades are actually pretty horrible when they are in a pug and the other team is much better than them.

Yeah I just logged out of one after two nice games. Description: ultra-crit gravity spam ten feet at a time running up the ramp, ultra-crit commando heals nonstop spam into a ball carrier who is going to live through any damage, and since he can't die obviously resolve has been popped ages ago, log out of my favorite warzone full of pugs because it's despicable. Honestly I'm just as upset with this company as I am with the lowlife gimmick spammers they're catering to. I see the Devs respond on all kinds of other issues, if they intend to give us the finger the might as well say so publicly so we can leave Swtor for good. I have one friend who plays this game, I moved far out of the area, if he didn't play this buggy *** shadow of KOTOR's former self, I would leave it without thinking twice.

 

Those two games before huttball though? Awesome.

 

And it was one of those insta-queues too (the Huttball). Insta-queue translation - when other solo players are logging out in disgust with this game left and right so you get a queue pop the instant you click the button.

 

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

Edited June 1, 2013 by Comfterbilly

Strange how most of those complaining about premades don't display any information about who they are or where they play in their sigs. That would really interest me.

 

Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity.

First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?

 

Do you know how many guilds there are out there and how many of them form premades - and can you honestly say they are all top-level quality? How often a night do you approximately lose as a pure PUG against the same premades over and over again? How often do you get matched up with a premade on your OWN team? How can you tell that you DON'T have a premade on your own team? What exactly is so incredibly scary about premades on the other team that leads you to promote the separation of queues so badly? How often have you lost matches because you were up against such overpowering premades as opposed to simply having total nubcakes on your own team?

 

Then, where do you get the notion that every premade out there is somehow part of a ranked team, or out for high-level competitive pvp? Have you ever actually PLAYED ranked at all? Have you ever organised it, discussed a good group composition, played against other top teams? Do you know which premades on your server even DO ranked?

 

This will make an interesting read, I'll wager. I'm tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again, I just really want to know where all you people are coming from. And please, if you can refrain from using the words 'facerolling', 'pugstomping' and 'people with rl issues' in you answers, it would be very much appreciated.

Strange how most of those complaining about premades don't display any information about who they are or where they play in their sigs. That would really interest me.

 

Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity.

First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?

 

Do you know how many guilds there are out there and how many of them form premades - and can you honestly say they are all top-level quality? How often a night do you approximately lose as a pure PUG against the same premades over and over again? How often do you get matched up with a premade on your OWN team? How can you tell that you DON'T have a premade on your own team? What exactly is so incredibly scary about premades on the other team that leads you to promote the separation of queues so badly? How often have you lost matches because you were up against such overpowering premades as opposed to simply having total nubcakes on your own team?

 

Then, where do you get the notion that every premade out there is somehow part of a ranked team, or out for high-level competitive pvp? Have you ever actually PLAYED ranked at all? Have you ever organised it, discussed a good group composition, played against other top teams? Do you know which premades on your server even DO ranked?

 

This will make an interesting read, I'll wager. I'm tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again, I just really want to know where all you people are coming from. And please, if you can refrain from using the words 'facerolling', 'pugstomping' and 'people with rl issues' in you answers, it would be very much appreciated.

 

they are the same people that cry about gear being imba, or classes being fotm, or heals being op. It all stems from the fact that they cannot realize that they are bad. In order to objectively judge skill, you need a decent amount of skill to begin with. Without that, the reasoning process will be something like, "I lost, therefore the other team must have had some sort of unfair advantage", right now it seems to be premades. Ideally, people will think "I lost, what can I do to improve, be it find competent teammates, improve my gear/rotation/become more aware"

I used to only pug wz's but now only premades, to avoid people like this, who don't learn basic teamwork and rotations, and blame others for their loss.

 

complaining that premades use unfair gimmicks and strats is about as logical as going into a raid and saying "i don't want to practice my rotation or learn mechanics, im just going to do whatever i want" You would get booted in about 5 seconds, why should people who use inferior strategies be allowed to win in pvp?

 

On a side note, voice chat only provides minimal advantages if you are aware of what the other team is doing. When winning, there are two scenarios, either a single enemy is attacking the node, and the defender should be able to hold them off long enough even if you werent using voice chat. Other scenario is multiple attackers, and you shouldnt even need a call for that, since you should notice when you are outnumbering the enemy.

Focusing target, at least basically, can be done with marking or just saying focus the healer. When attacking, you shouldnt need someone to tell you to cc when someone is capping or to not break cc.

"complaining that premades use unfair gimmicks and strats is about as logical as going into a raid and saying "i don't want to practice my rotation or learn mechanics, im just going to do whatever i want" You would get booted in about 5 seconds, why should people who use inferior strategies be allowed to win in pvp?"

 

an ordinary german pug will pretty much steam roll the so called good premades on other NA and EU shards;

 

purpose of the thread is not knowing tactics or how to play when pug?

 

_________________________

not enough "wanna be mods" on the same and various topic

Until there is some sort of matchmaking system, instanced warzones that allow premades vs solo players, especially when there are only 8 members on a team, are just instanced farms. It's not pvp, not even close. It's just a huge mismatch with one group of players beating up on the other.

Ever since Blizzard tricked everyone into believing that instanced battlegrounds were pvp, it's been the unfortunate model for pvp in mmos. But instances depend on constant fine tuning, and no games company commits that sort of resources to instanced pvp. World pvp offers a fluid, player driven environment. Resources would be better spent developing that than more instanced farm zones.

The people who enjoy pugstomping on a regular basis are mediocre players and/or players with irl issues. They need to feel better about themselves either in game in real life or both. You will never convince them that they shouldn't get to stomp pugs.

 

^^This! And add to that: People enjoying pugstomping on RP-PvE-servers, because they do not dare to play on a PvP server!

 

Anyway, I'd like to ask all you stalwart anti-premaders some questions, out of sheer curiosity. First of all, have you ever even been invited to a group of other people to do pvp with them ? Have you ever played pvp in a premade group with other people AT ALL, or have you only been solo-queueing since you started playing? Or did you convert from a premader to a pugger after you discovered how 'wrong' the current system is? If someone DID ask you to join them, did you decline out of sheer nobility so as not to be a part of an 'advantageous' premade group yourself?

 

Well then, since you asked. I had a very active guild last year and last summer we had quite a good PvP premade running. 8 people or 2x4 people, depending on where we queued. At the same time, I always loved to pug. Back then, I was also doing it to recruit good PvPers. So I know both sides. My premade fell apart after a few months, because it was just stupid and no fun at all to play against pugs. And we hardly ever got a ranked, because the Imps who had several ranked premades never went in - because of facing real competition there. So the situation back then was: Several Imp premades, ready for ranked, but scared to go because they lose there, flooded the poor pugs on the server (both, the reps and the imps). Since the Autumn I decline playing in premades, because - as you say it - I find the system wrong and I do not have irl issues. So I rather try to help poor pugs and once in a while I cause them a win against a premade and this is a very rewarding feeling. Just last week, I capped the second turret in the hypergate wz with my stealther against a premade and managed to secure it for the last remaining 25 seconds alone against 5 (!) players (4 from the premade + 1 - which just proves that premades are not even good, but solely rely on overpowering the pugs). This caused a already looking lost warzone to become a winner. You should have seen the cheering in the chat. Some players probably won the first time ever. Not because they are so bad. No, because they never get a pug against a pug before.

 

So, are you satisfied with my answer? Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones. Not as much as before 2.0 thanks to bolster and a lot of premaders finally leaving the game, but still. You can deny it, but it is how it is.

I just want cross server queues to have less of a chance to play premades from my server. I want variety and yes I realize it means I will have a larger chance at premades. I just don't want to play the same people over and over. Stop closing me off from the rest of the community.

Until there is some sort of matchmaking system, instanced warzones that allow premades vs solo players, especially when there are only 8 members on a team, are just instanced farms. It's not pvp, not even close. It's just a huge mismatch with one group of players beating up on the other.

Ever since Blizzard tricked everyone into believing that instanced battlegrounds were pvp, it's been the unfortunate model for pvp in mmos. But instances depend on constant fine tuning, and no games company commits that sort of resources to instanced pvp. World pvp offers a fluid, player driven environment. Resources would be better spent developing that than more instanced farm zones.

 

Maybe the devs at BW are just young and immature enough to think that pushing for more organization and bumping up the play level, which are two good things, are good reasons to justify the huge mismatch in their casual queue (but no, those are not good reasons). If so, they are probably also naive enough to think a bandaid like buggy match-making sort-ware is good enough medicine to fix a huge, systemic problem as widespread as this has become, optimistic as that may be.

 

Hopefully they grow up and realize they've got some inexcusable mismatching going on in their system, and a population of premades who are actually bringing down the game play as well as taking advantage of their queuing system because they really are that petty.

 

These "great noble premades of ultimate skill" are usually just gravity-spamming plus ranged DPS plus sentinel speed plus immorto heals plus guardian running around twice as fast as everybody else taking advantage of the no-challenge game play.

 

Whatever BW devs think, this ^ can't be what they're shooting for; it's what they're getting, to me, I think the company ought to be embarrassed to be hosting such a thing.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Comfterbilly

You can sum up this whole thread and thousands of threads in different games the same way.

 

Pugs, Don't like getting facerolled,

Premades Like easymode ROFLStomping pugs

Pugs Ban premades

Premades Friends, mmos

Pugs Separate queues

Premades Queue times.

 

Premade players insisting that everyone can join a premade is disingenuous. It is almost as easy to form an 8 man team, witness all the Ops done every day. But what isn't easy is to ROFLfacestomp another team that has the same advantages as your team does. Consequently, ranked is next to dead.

 

A solution is simple enough. Code a matchmaking system that pits premades vs premades firstly, and fills in with pugs, with the remaining pugs going to all pug teams to face each other. Most players would find that satisfactory and there would be no noticeable increase in queue times. With cross server queues, there would even be less of a queue time than presently.

Certainly better than the pug farming that passes for instanced pvp currently.

Edited June 1, 2013 by MotorCityMan

You can sum up this whole thread and thousands of threads in different games the same way.

 

Pugs, Don't like getting facerolled,

Premades Like easymode ROFLStomping pugs

Pugs Ban premades

Premades Friends, mmos

Pugs Separate queues

Premades Queue times.

 

Premade players insisting that everyone can join a premade is disingenuous. It is almost as easy to form an 8 man team, witness all the Ops done every day. But what isn't easy is to ROFLfacestomp another team that has the same advantages as your team does. Consequently, ranked is next to dead.

 

A solution is simple enough. Code a matchmaking system that pits premades vs premades firstly, and fills in with pugs, with the remaining pugs going to all pug teams to face each other. Most players would find that satisfactory and there would be no noticeable increase in queue times. With cross server queues, there would even be less of a queue time than presently.

Certainly better than the pug farming that passes for instanced pvp currently.

regardless of whether anyone adheres to the beliefs stated in the rest of your post, I think everyone would find this matchmaking fix legitimate. I doubt that BW has command of their own code to implement it.

Edited June 1, 2013 by foxmob

regardless of whether anyone adheres to the beliefs stated in the rest of your post, I think everyone would find this matchmaking fix legitimate. I doubt that BW has command of their own code to implement it.

 

Tihs.

You bads know why people premade? So they reduce the chances of having all those 50k damage badds on their teams. End.

You bads know why people premade? So they reduce the chances of having all those 50k damage badds on their teams. End.

 

You just wanna have 50% chance meet bads on wz, when any solo players have 100% chance meet bads.

 

Try to play ranked wz, there is 0% chance meet bads in your team.

You just wanna have 50% chance meet bads on wz, when any solo players have 100% chance meet bads.

 

Try to play ranked wz, there is 0% chance meet bads in your team.

 

If you dont like pvp dont do it.

If you dont like pvp dont do it.

 

Excuse me - the definition of PVP is not, "being stuck with premades."

" /1 Hey, "xclass-xspecc" looking for a group for warzones".

 

stop crying about people playing with their friends, go find someone to play with yourselves.

the game is meant for playing together, stop being anti-social cavedwellers, and stop crying : ))

It's a red flag to thousands of solo PVP'ers in the market for a game provider that's ready to earn their business, to keep on looking. If pugs + premades is a forced marriage, premades are the fat girl no one wants to marry, pugs are the eligible bachelor with a lot of better options, and the devs are the fat girl's dad with a pitch fork ready to force you to get married.

No, the "elite" is on the opposite side of the argument. The spoilt rich kid who has his official fiancee, but who is stingy on letting them touch her (ranked), so he comes down and dirty with Cinderella (reg) who has no other choice but to comply, because she has nowhere else to go.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Helig

A solution is simple enough. Code a matchmaking system that pits premades vs premades firstly, and fills in with pugs, with the remaining pugs going to all pug teams to face each other. Most players would find that satisfactory and there would be no noticeable increase in queue times. With cross server queues, there would even be less of a queue time than presently.

Certainly better than the pug farming that passes for instanced pvp currently.

Your solution is based on the assumption that all premades are equal. They're not. There are a couple of guild premades on my server that I will quit on every time because even against a crappy full-pug chances are slim that we'll win. It's the type of premade with an average player skill so low that you wouldnt be able to make up for it with the four best players on the server. On top of this they're vastly overestimating their abilties and they never look at the roster so they will split up in three every time and let the sage and commando get steamrolled in mid while they're failing at killing one guy at the off-node.

 

Hence, the only solution is to implement player ratings and since premades rarely to never consist of a mix of players from the skill spectrum it would be enough that the premades were given the same rating as the person with the highest individual rating in the premade. This wouldnt be a definite solution but it would decrease the risk of a team of good players going up against people who always end up last on the board and never win. The matchmaking system would increase the search to a wider rating span every minute to assure that people wouldnt get stuck in queue forever.

 

And, people, enough with the "form your own" premade argument. People are complaining about the good premades and since far from everyone in this game is good it's not reasonable to believe that average players will become significally better and on par just because they group up. Hell, the best thing they can do is to not form a premade and take their chances with pugs instead.

Your solution is based on the assumption that all premades are equal. They're not. There are a couple of guild premades on my server that I will quit on every time because even against a crappy full-pug chances are slim that we'll win. It's the type of premade with an average player skill so low that you wouldnt be able to make up for it with the four best players on the server. On top of this they're vastly overestimating their abilties and they never look at the roster so they will split up in three every time and let the sage and commando get steamrolled in mid while they're failing at killing one guy at the off-node.

 

Hence, the only solution is to implement player ratings and since premades rarely to never consist of a mix of players from the skill spectrum it would be enough that the premades were given the same rating as the person with the highest individual rating in the premade. This wouldnt be a definite solution but it would decrease the risk of a team of good players going up against people who always end up last on the board and never win. The matchmaking system would increase the search to a wider rating span every minute to assure that people wouldnt get stuck in queue forever.

 

And, people, enough with the "form your own" premade argument. People are complaining about the good premades and since far from everyone in this game is good it's not reasonable to believe that average players will become significally better and on par just because they group up. Hell, the best thing they can do is to not form a premade and take their chances with pugs instead.

 

No, no, no, no, no, no. Whatever a premade's skill level - that is the premade's problem. The solution is not for us to be stuck with them. Good, bad or terribad, premade problems are premade problems. Us solo players might feel sympathy, but it's hard to see the point, having had to accomodate them since launch. After rereading your post though, just wanted to say sorry - not intending to be hostile! Lol.

 

MotorCityMan's sorting idea is a good one, but like foxmob said,

 

regardless of whether anyone adheres to the beliefs stated in the rest of your post, I think everyone would find this matchmaking fix legitimate. I doubt that BW has command of their own code to implement it.

 

I mean it's like two years and we still have problems with simple things like static over the audio channel, so no thank you to matchmaking on this game engine.

 

Either way, matchmaking is just another fake solution (like ranked). The real problem is they want to "win all the time", instead of test themselves out. Ranked would be full, if they were really interested in skill.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Comfterbilly

Solos want an honest game. If you're a solo player and you're good, you queue solo thinking you don't care if you win or lose as long as you can get lost in the ferocity and bring your game to a new level - as a team but independently; strangers thrown into a match, maybe know nothing about each other's play styles in the beginning but pushing for that "aha" moment when there's an intuitive connection between players - at that point, the warzone becomes something kind of beautiful; you might even start getting something good out of the bads, when there's a point, when it's worth it.

 

What I notice is these pugstomping 4-mans are really disrupting the experience for a lot, lot of people. A lot of new players who signed up for the first time then quit in disgust, but if they had a place to develop, might be better than a lot of us by now. Instead, solo queue is almost broken with premades in it, to the point that the only people who can enjoy the game are the gimmick spammers.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Comfterbilly

If the premade "problem" is as bad as you people are making it to be ... you people do understand if there is a premade in EVERY WARZONE THEN PREMADES ARE 50% of the pvp playerbase. SO STOP THE QQ because you puggers are NOT the majority.

Look, I realize there are plenty of good reasons to queue solo. You aren't going to be online long enough to bother finding a group, you are doing chores between rounds and neither wish to stop doing them nor hold up your teammates while they wait for you to be ready to queue, the good people you actually want to queue with don't feel the same about you, or perhaps you just aren't in a social mood and want to be solo. Perhaps you can't afford a voice server, and neither can any of your friends, and you don't want to use Skype because it's too much trouble to download, and without voice, you see premading as pointless. Maybe you don't have a microphone, or, for that matter, headphones, and you don't want to use external speakers because that would bother your family. Maybe your friend bought a Mumble server, but you just don't feel like downloading the client... just because you're lazy. Maybe you do have your own Mumble server, but aren't in the mood to spend an hour finding a full team willing to download the client and would rather just queue already.

 

I frequently queue solo for some of these reasons myself. But the thing is, that's my choice, and I have to take responsibility for my choices. If, for whatever reason, I don't feel like making or being part of a premade, I have to accept the consequences. I will not be able to coordinate over voicechat. I may wind up being the only healer, with 7 people who all insist they are damage and not tanks, and die 15 times in a match as the other team focus fires me every time I get out of the rez. The people I am grouped with may go node-AFK but pretend to guard. Or just not manage to type out incoming until after they are dead. The team on the other side, on the other hand, may be well-balanced with two healers, both guarded, and a good target caller on voice so when someone gets attacked, they're getting attacked by 4 or 5 damage and tanks, who are incidentally also chaining their stuns together for maximum efficiency. Had I not been too lazy or otherwise disinterested in getting a premade together and talking them into downloading Mumble, I could've avoided such situations (well, not the other team's strengths, but at least my own team's weaknesses), but, as I did not choose to do so, I have to accept the consequences. Not limit other people's choices to make up for my own laziness. That would be like saying interrupts should be removed from the game, or at least disabled in unranked warzones, just because I can't be bothered to use activation-free heals or good positioning or interrupt immunity talents to deal with it.

 

It's not as if people don't have the option to make premades and get on voice if they so desire. Mumble servers cost what? $1.89/month for a 10-slot server (enough for a full ranked team) from Mumbleboxes.com? And Skype is free. There are even some free Mumble servers out there, perhaps lower quality, but still free. Also free to run it on your own computer. C3 is free too. You don't have to pay Ventrilo prices to have voicechat. Headset with microphone, that's what, $5 one-time fee? Sometimes free if you can get a used one no one wants anymore. Seriously, people are paying a lot more just to subscribe to the game. Don't want people to know you're a woman? Don't talk, just listen. For that matter, I heard someone using a voice-changer on Mumble the other day. They sounded like a cartoon character. If people aren't forming premades and getting on voice, it's not because there aren't perfectly affordable, in some cases free, options out there -- it's because they're too lazy, not feeling sociable, or perhaps just not planning on PvPing long enough to get serious about doing it effectively.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Dawncatcher

Damn, these threads don't end, do they.

 

People that complain about premades are barking at the wrong tree. The real issue is that the game has no matchmaking and cross-server therefore there is very huge disparity of skill and it results in a lot of one-sided matches in regular warzones which are determined by which team has better and more of good players and compositions.

 

Premades help with the second by usually ensuring that the team has at least one healer and usually a tank, and lack of a healer vs a team that has one is huge difference now in 2.0.

 

The issue when facing a good premade is not that they have voice coms (most good players do not need to communicate as they have good game sense and know what to do at any given moment anyway) is that they might have 4 good players and you team don't and the only issue is if YOU contribute to your team to the good player portion or the bad player portion.

 

Most people that complain about premades are actually complaining about facing better players while they themselves do not want to improve and remain bad. They will never join a group themselves because nobody wants to have them in the team anyway.

 

I myself pug 50% of the time and I usually leave at the start of the warzone if I see that we get only bad players in the team. I play the game since beta and I do not have patience anymore to bust my *** off when you have people that cannot dps or heal or don't seem to have any brains at all and my personal pet peeve players in tank stance that don't guard anybody. Especially republic seems to have a lot of soresu guardians, shockingly there are a lot of people that fail at smashing so they use tank stance to pretend do be useful.