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PLEASE VOTE: Give Us Real Combat Logs


Starglide

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people are talking about what they need, for noble and serious reason as improving themselves, or learning the encounter.

 

other people are talking about noble thing like protecting the weak, privacy and the right to the difference.

 

 

 

How about simply plain fun?

Playing DPS, i would really want to know how am i doing and how is my colleague doing. Not for bashing, not necessarily for bettering myself, just for fun.

 

Yes, running operation is fun in itself, killing bosses, getting new loot, watching story, all good.

But, competing for fun with your friend or even with stranger, seeing how well you doing relatively to other, that also fun for me.

 

Does that make me a bad person? I just want to see, to know. I'm not gonna bash or rant after someone dps, if he is really bad, to a point where some operation are impossible, then i might "choose" the PUG in which i go into but that is the extend of it, i will never belittle or brag.

 

i just want to have fun.

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The SWTOR devs used to be against dungeon finder tools, however they caved and are going to add them. You can read about it here. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...r-the-future/4

 

Rift devs used to be against addons. But they added them.

Rift devs also used to be against cross server lfg tools. But they added them.

 

SWTOR devs were against combat logs. But they started adding them.

 

What do all these have in common? Players want these tools. While the vocal minority purists may be against them, many players do want such tools. Trust me when I say that within 1 year this game will have addons and full combat logs instead of just personal logs.

 

Notice I said purists, not casuals. Casuals are people that enjoy experiencing the content instead of having a challenge. Casuals are the ones that play for a few hours a week. Casuals don't care if you put addons in the game, combat logs, or dungeon finder tools (although with their limited time they probably prefer dungeon finders). Purists however are the ones against addons, combat logs, dungeon finder tools, etc. Purists try to call themselves casual, however they don't realize that purist doesn't mean casual. Purists can be hardcore players that dedicate a lot of time to the game and want to experience the hardest content but make sure it's with nothing but the UI the devs give them. Casuals on the other hand cannot by definition, be a hardcore player.

Edited by Ulmius
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people are talking about what they need, for noble and serious reason as improving themselves, or learning the encounter.

 

other people are talking about noble thing like protecting the weak, privacy and the right to the difference.

 

 

 

How about simply plain fun?

Playing DPS, i would really want to know how am i doing and how is my colleague doing. Not for bashing, not necessarily for bettering myself, just for fun.

 

Yes, running operation is fun in itself, killing bosses, getting new loot, watching story, all good.

But, competing for fun with your friend or even with stranger, seeing how well you doing relatively to other, that also fun for me.

 

Does that make me a bad person? I just want to see, to know. I'm not gonna bash or rant after someone dps, if he is really bad, to a point where some operation are impossible, then i might "choose" the PUG in which i go into but that is the extend of it, i will never belittle or brag.

 

i just want to have fun.

 

Comparative Data Analysis = Fun?

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yes please.

 

And by the way, it's funny when people talk about how hardcore raiding guilds in wow aren't "fun". OK so wiping non-stop is fun for some, others think killing bosses is fun. Some think playing at all is fun, some think playing well is fun. Get enough people in the game and you can make everyone happy because the community works that way and is diverse and big enough to have diverse guilds. Logs won't break that.

 

Also, funniest arguments ever: "Why are people looking at my performance and how I play and not just letting me play however I want? My $15 entitles me to play however I want and if it's bad you have no right to tell me or not want to play with me". Followed by "no-one takes the time to actually help me improve my performance anymore :mad:"

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it's just a chicken sh*t way of saying they want to compete for epeen status.....

 

I don't care about epeen.

 

I care why some mobs kill me and some don't. I want to know what is shredding through my armor and what isn't. I want to know which of my attacks is performing better against certain mobs.

 

This is for casual, solo play.

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Generally speaking, the "ePeen issue" is seen as more of one of the causes than the problem.

 

To go back to the car metaphor, the problem is when people are carpooling, they aren't discussing the sort of drive they'll be having beforehand and dissenters are being shoved out during the middle of the ride. There is also alot of frustration as the everyone shares the road and streetracers keep honking their horns because the traffic is not going their speed. In the end, I think BioWare built a scenic highway and not an expressway or racetrack.

 

This has nothing to do with combat logs. Combat logs don't have the power to remove you from a group only people do. Thankfully, unlike real life you can simple ignore all other road users and continue on your way. It is entirely your descission who you get into a car with and there is no reason to limit the make and model of vehicles available simply because some are happy with their current vehicle.

 

Just remember that combat logs only state mathamatical facts. They are not rude or arrogant.

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The SWTOR devs used to be against dungeon finder tools, however they caved and are going to add them. You can read about it here. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03...r-the-future/4

 

Rift devs used to be against addons. But they added them.

Rift devs also used to be against cross server lfg tools. But they added them.

 

SWTOR devs were against combat logs. But they started adding them.

 

What do all these have in common? Players want these tools. While the vocal minority purists may be against them, many players do want such tools. Trust me when I say that within 1 year this game will have addons and full combat logs instead of just personal logs.

 

Notice I said purists, not casuals. Casuals are people that enjoy experiencing the content instead of having a challenge. Casuals are the ones that play for a few hours a week. Casuals don't care if you put addons in the game, combat logs, or dungeon finder tools (although with their limited time they probably prefer dungeon finders). Purists however are the ones against addons, combat logs, dungeon finder tools, etc. Purists try to call themselves casual, however they don't realize that purist doesn't mean casual. Purists can be hardcore players that dedicate a lot of time to the game and want to experience the hardest content but make sure it's with nothing but the UI the devs give them. Casuals on the other hand cannot by definition, be a hardcore player.

And as you can see from this thread people also don't want it.

 

I don't care about epeen.

 

I care why some mobs kill me and some don't. I want to know what is shredding through my armor and what isn't. I want to know which of my attacks is performing better against certain mobs.

 

This is for casual, solo play.

And the private combat logs is a great compromise for those who do and those who don't. You get the data to help you improve yourself and thy don't feel like they are playing numbers but a game.

 

Win win.

 

 

Also in regards of fun we are talking about the fun derived. Note the actions of some affect more than themselves.

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Comparative Data Analysis = Fun?

 

Now this might be new to you, but not all people enjoy the same things. No matter the subject, what's fun and what not is something intrapersonal.

 

What's the need for combat logs when everything is incredibly easy?

 

Ever tried (or watched streams) the hard mode ops for 1.2.

And if they hold true to their promis nightmare will be a larger difficulty increase than for Vault and Palace.

 

Just remember that combat logs only state mathamatical facts. They are not rude or arrogant.

 

I hope you don't mind me putting you in my signature? :>

Couldn't have thought of a better way to voice my own opinion on this matter.

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What's the need for combat logs when everything is incredibly easy?

 

Exactly. Nightmare tier and Rates PvP should be niche play styles that require additional theory crafting tools on hand to enable longevity in content and ensure solid class and environment progression in the future.

 

The remaining tiers are then able to have a more flexible play style without stress or a steep learning curve whilst still recieving the flow on benifits. On hand/in-game theory crafting fundamentals are essential for this and are required to continue to push new tiers of content in new and engaging directions.

Edited by Rtwozero
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Now this might be new to you, but not all people enjoy the same things. No matter the subject, what's fun and what not is something intrapersonal.

 

 

 

Ever tried (or watched streams) the hard mode ops for 1.2.

And if they hold true to their promis nightmare will be a larger difficulty increase than for Vault and Palace.

 

 

 

I hope you don't mind me putting you in my signature? :>

Couldn't have thought of a better way to voice my own opinion on this matter.

 

A gun does not want or need to kill. The person wielding the gun however is what makes it dangerous.

 

I for one don't want to give people tools to abuse or harass others, and for something as niche as a combat log, I could care less if it's left out forever.

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Combat logs don't abuse or harass people. Players do....... Thankfully you can ignore both if you choose to. Why try and restrict information based on the fact that some players are rude or abusive?

 

You can /ignore a player at anytime. I can't see the relevance of players attitudes to that of an in-game combat log. One reports statistical information and the other reports opinions. Please do not advocate for the restriction of information if you are unable to differentiate between the two.

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A gun does not want or need to kill. The person wielding the gun however is what makes it dangerous.

 

I for one don't want to give people tools to abuse or harass others, and for something as niche as a combat log, I could care less if it's left out forever.

 

Exactly. Combat logs is a tool that is a abused. Like any other tool with the same problem there are regulations to prevent such misuse ... which is **gasp** exactly what Bioware is doing! @#&$in crazy logic Batman!

 

BRB, im going to petition Squarenix for a DLC Combat Log for XIII-2. Jet Bahamut is constantly kicking my *** and I need to figure out a perfect rotation with perfect equipment to beat him. Screw playing the game and trying out different things like ive done in EVERY OTHER GAME I ever had a challenging encounter in ... I play competitively and need to beat him NAO! :rolleyes:

Edited by MasterKayote
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Combat logs don't abuse or harass people. Players do....... Thankfully you can ignore both if you choose to. Why try and restrict information based on the fact that some players are rude or abusive?

 

You can /ignore a player at anytime. I can't see the relevance of players attitudes to that of an in-game combat log. One reports statistical information and the other reports opinions. Please do not advocate for the restriction of information if you are unable to differentiate between the two.

 

Players will eventually have a personal dps and threatmeter as well as tools to do a comprehensive out of game study of encounters. That gives individuals what they need as well as progression guilds. The only people that want more information is e-peeners that will use the information to grief strangers in operations. Operations aren't hard enough to demand that and I along with a majority of other players support excluding tools for that purpose.

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BRB, im going to petition Squarenix for a DLC Combat Log for XIII-2. Jet Bahamut is constantly kicking my *** and I need to figure out a perfect rotation with perfect equipment to beat him. Screw playing the game and trying out different things like ive done in EVERY OTHER GAME I ever had a challenging encounter in ... I play competitively and need to beat him NAO! :rolleyes:

This is so win. Tears came out of my eyes from laughing so hard.

 

Everything related to computers deal with numbers. From typing a text document to saving an image to playing videogames. Interestingly enough it is only when it comes to MMOs SOME players demand to know everything that is going on behind the scene and with the numbers. You don't see them asking for real time combat logs with a dps meter for call of duty. Hell that game doesn't even have a health bar anymore like other FPS.

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A gun does not want or need to kill.

 

I for one don't want to give people tools to abuse or harass others.

Quoted for posterity/stupidity/hypocrisy/hilarity.

 

3rd party parsing is perfect great job BW! It gives enthusiasts theorycrafting for longevity while keeping it out of the hands of simps who can't write two sentences without contradiction.

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it's just a chicken sh*t way of saying they want to compete for epeen status.....

 

Anyone who thinks this is the sole purpose of wanting combat logs/damage meters has never done a hard/nightmare mode raid. If not everyone is doing their job, you're not going to kill bosses. That is the real purpose for this sort of stuff. Being able to see what happened. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

If people use it for epeen purposes, so be it. But it's useful for gauging where you and the rest of your raid stand. That's what I want it for.

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Exactly. Combat logs is a tool that is a abused. Like any other tool with the same problem there are regulations to prevent such misuse ... which is **gasp** exactly what Bioware is doing! @#&$in crazy logic Batman!

 

You can abuse anything in this world. Let's outlaw everything, especially a mechanism to provide factual data. We don't want facts infecting this world.

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Now this might be new to you, but not all people enjoy the same things. No matter the subject, what's fun and what not is something intrapersonal.

You may want to read more than just the short posts. I pretty regularly concede that a minority of this game's players enjoy data-driven playstyles but, I felt Vakris was going a little too long about the simple plain fun he was describing while omitting the fact he was hinging it on data analysis. Something that is not widely considered fun even by those who complain in this thread that they want BioWare to do it for them.

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You can abuse anything in this world. Let's outlaw everything, especially a mechanism to provide factual data. We don't want facts infecting this world.

 

Better yet, when we design something, we can just leave out those potential problems like BioWare has. They are adding a useful tool and trying to insure that it will only be used responsibly. NOTHING has been taken from you, outlawed or banned.

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You can abuse anything in this world. Let's outlaw everything, especially a mechanism to provide factual data. We don't want facts infecting this world.

 

Mmm ... hyperbole's (nomnom).

 

I Never said anything about outlawing. Last I checked, guns aren't outlawed. I said regulations and restrictions for tools that can be used incorrectly. That also *gasp* includes facts! There is A LOT of "factual data" about me that you can use incorrectly to cause me harm. Fortunately there are laws that (A) restrict you from getting that information (at least without my approval) and (B) laws against you using a lot of that information against me.

 

BW cant enforce the misuse of parsers, nor are there laws against being a total **** to someone else (unfortunately). Still, Bioware seems to not want that kind of behavior in TOR so theyre restricting its use to prevent it.

 

A while back I tried paying for my mothers car which she was behind on. She gave me all the information I needed to call and pay. When they asked me how much I wanted to pay I said "well, how much is she past due? Ill pay that." they said "I cant give you that information, its against the law" Now why would they say that, hmm?

Edited by MasterKayote
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As a Progression raider, who leads a Raid guild, the way BioWare is doing it is fine. It removes the in game spam and misuse factors and makes it something that we as a guild can do within our own site amongst ourselves to help improve our performance. I don't recruit players that would abuse combat logs anyways, but the way BioWare is doing it suits mine and my guilds style perfectly.
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No to combat logs,i have been there and done that and it seperates too many people and then there is the extreme tweak crowd that will post logs in chat,do we really want or need to go down that path? i dont.

 

Combat log yourself? ok fine but i dont want someone parseing me without my knowledge or if i do not wish to be.

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