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Lost Island HM should have better loot.


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That's a skill/coordination issue, not a gear issue. Try running it with people you work well with, it's not pug friendly.

 

LI HM is easy to fail if people make mistakes with their tactics. It's not down to gear. It's just skill. 4 people in full columi can easily breeze through LI HM if they know the tactics and execute them well. You (or your group) does not. That's why you wipe.

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IMO this discussion is being sidetracked. The discussion isn't that LI HM is too hard or the bosses need to be nerfed, it's that this being a tier 2 flashpoint and the natural progression of the game being tier 1 HMs -> tier 2 HMs, the bosses should be dropping gear of quality on par with their difficulty. The droid is definitely killable even in full Columi, but he's still unarguably more difficult than Revan who drops the exact same item (Revan's doable if Power of the Force isn't interrupted but not interrupting/cleaning Incinerate is a guaranteed wipe, and the asteroids are much easier to manage than the bubbles).

 

The design of these bosses means people using GF for their gear progression will run tier 1 HMs and fill out their columi set and then get nothing out of killing some very hard bosses in this fp (aka no progression), so they may just stick to the tier 1s while farming up BH comms except maybe doing this once for the weekly. I think we're only asking for all the bosses to drop Rakata level gear so full Columi people will have an incentive to run this more often on their way to accumulating a BH set. Plus 1.3 improved the heck out of the everything else's loot quality.

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IMO this discussion is being sidetracked. The discussion isn't that LI HM is too hard or the bosses need to be nerfed, it's that this being a tier 2 flashpoint and the natural progression of the game being tier 1 HMs -> tier 2 HMs, the bosses should be dropping gear of quality on par with their difficulty. The droid is definitely killable even in full Columi, but he's still unarguably more difficult than Revan who drops the exact same item (Revan's doable if Power of the Force isn't interrupted but not interrupting/cleaning Incinerate is a guaranteed wipe, and the asteroids are much easier to manage than the bubbles).

 

The design of these bosses means people using GF for their gear progression will run tier 1 HMs and fill out their columi set and then get nothing out of killing some very hard bosses in this fp (aka no progression), so they may just stick to the tier 1s while farming up BH comms except maybe doing this once for the weekly. I think we're only asking for all the bosses to drop Rakata level gear so full Columi people will have an incentive to run this more often on their way to accumulating a BH set. Plus 1.3 improved the heck out of the everything else's loot quality.

 

Sold. I agree with you, and I am that guy who does LI HM once a week.

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IMO this discussion is being sidetracked. The discussion isn't that LI HM is too hard or the bosses need to be nerfed, it's that this being a tier 2 flashpoint and the natural progression of the game being tier 1 HMs -> tier 2 HMs, the bosses should be dropping gear of quality on par with their difficulty. The droid is definitely killable even in full Columi, but he's still unarguably more difficult than Revan who drops the exact same item (Revan's doable if Power of the Force isn't interrupted but not interrupting/cleaning Incinerate is a guaranteed wipe, and the asteroids are much easier to manage than the bubbles).

 

The design of these bosses means people using GF for their gear progression will run tier 1 HMs and fill out their columi set and then get nothing out of killing some very hard bosses in this fp (aka no progression), so they may just stick to the tier 1s while farming up BH comms except maybe doing this once for the weekly. I think we're only asking for all the bosses to drop Rakata level gear so full Columi people will have an incentive to run this more often on their way to accumulating a BH set. Plus 1.3 improved the heck out of the everything else's loot quality.

1) I have run this with a group in 1/2 Columi (disclaimer: was friends in vent running new l50 alts) this was also before the nerf. Every piece of gear that dropped was an actual direct main upgrade to someone in the instance.

2) T1 FPs drop ONE piece of Columi, this drops 3 Columi + 1 Rakata

3) This is the ONLY way to 4-man something that drops a Columi MH.

 

Seriously, the gear rewards are fine.

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The first time I completed LI HM I was in tionese gear. I was the healer. It was freaking awesome because the columi mainhand and rakata chest piece for my class dropped, and I got both.

 

Now a days I run it in campaign and dread guard for three reasons that I'll list in priority: fun, to help friends, and for the black hole coms. It's one of the fastest to run, second to T5, I think. It also brings back memories of when I really had to struggle to get through it. All the lawl mistakes I made as a noob make me smile.

 

The rewards are good enough in my opinion BUT I would really like to see the pet drop more often. I have run that flash point 36894834327487923879478128 times and I have NEVER seen it drop. That's a pretty low rate imo. :(

Edited by Radzkie
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I hardly see a problem with the current loot, right now if you have a good group with good gear you can do the entire flashpoint in less then 20 minutes (guildrecord is currently 18min and 32s). The tactics are hard the first few times but then you get the hang of it and it all becomes so very much easier for everyone involved, so I don't agree that the loot should be better, I think that it's perfectly fine as it is. It's not really a hard flashpoint in comparison to the other Tier 1, the damage is lower, the boss hp is lower and the only difference is that the tactics are more complex.

 

Just as a sidenote, me and three other friends bought full Tionese gear just to try it out (those commendations and crystals were just stacking up anyway) and we were able to clear the entire instance without one single wipe, sure it took longer then it normally takes us but it wasn't really any major problems even with such gear.

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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I hardly see a problem with the current loot, right now if you have a good group with good gear you can do the entire flashpoint in less then 20 minutes (guildrecord is currently 18min and 32s). The tactics are hard the first few times but then you get the hang of it and it all becomes so very much easier for everyone involved, so I don't agree that the loot should be better, I think that it's perfectly fine as it is. It's not really a hard flashpoint in comparison to the other Tier 1, the damage is lower, the boss hp is lower and the only difference is that the tactics are more complex.

 

Just as a sidenote, me and three other friends bought full Tionese gear just to try it out (those commendations and crystals were just stacking up anyway) and we were able to clear the entire instance without one single wipe, sure it took longer then it normally takes us but it wasn't really any major problems even with such gear.

 

I'm not sure, exactly what was done to this instance, whether the timers were changed or what, but it's far easier than it used to be. And it's not the gear level either, because I just sleepwalked through this not using voice comm with a fresh 50 and 2 of 3 people who hadn't done it before. That would never have been possible when this fp first dropped.

 

Earlier in the thread (probably months ago) I said the drops didn't make sense for the difficulty. Whatever they did to nerf this brought the drops back in line with the difficulty. Hell, 4 columi drops might be too much at this point.

Edited by Larry_Dallas
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I wish there was another way to get columi main hand weapon at least.

depending on what DPS class you are, you can get a second columi offhand and just strip the mods out of that and put it in your mainhand. that's what i did for my gunslinger. the offhand and mainhand had the exact same stats anyways.

Edited by happysister
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I talked with Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about the difficulty of Lost Island and its rewards, and he shared his insight about these questions.

 

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

 

That's not to say that we won't be re-examining gear progression going forward. It just happened that when Lost Island was released (1.2), it made sense to us to offer new players and alternate route to the Rakata chest and Columi main hand while infusing the weekly Flashpoint missions with a bit more challenge for players who had geared past most Flashpoints.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

you can claim that it is balanced for tionese but the bottom line is that it is not.

I watched over 30 attempts last night alone, and every group was geared columni or better and all failed.

To be blunt

It's over tuned and not worth the reward.

 

Now I know i'm about to get hate/l2p flame but I simply don't care.

 

The bottom line is that the op is right.

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yeah well it'd like to see the guy down this FP in tionese gear. I'd say healing would be the most critical part where groups would fail with the gear. It'd be only possible with no mistakes taken whatsoever, meaning no wandering in any of the aoe-s ever, which is quite impossible especially at the last boss.
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I watched over 30 attempts last night alone, and every group was geared columni or better and all failed.

To be blunt

It's over tuned and not worth the reward.

 

So gear makes u a good player? The reason people are failing is probably due to the fact this is the first instance they come accross which actually requires some competence behind the pixels of the characters and unfortunately the majority of those columi players would not have seen any mechanics like the ones in this flashpoint. Not only do you have to have competence but the rest of the team does also.

 

I have done this in a full tionese/columi team and it wasnt that hard but then again we have all done this fp alot with our mains. The current difficulty is fine but it takes tactics and competency and I believe thats why they failed.

Edited by JFerret
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The damage from the poison from the last boss can be nearly entirely mitigated by well timed purges and proper tanking.

 

I've dps'd it with a friend with both of us wearing level 49 purples (optimized and augmented, but overall worse than columi) and didn't come close to an enrage. It's not a gear heavy flashpoint, it's just execution heavy.

 

I am confident I could tank or heal it in tionese gear as well, even with a equally geared opposite, so long as they were competent.

Edited by Taiketo
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So gear makes u a good player? The reason people are failing is probably due to the fact this is the first instance they come accross which actually requires some competence behind the pixels of the characters and unfortunately the majority of those columi players would not have seen any mechanics like the ones in this flashpoint. Not only do you have to have competence but the rest of the team does also.

 

I have done this in a full tionese/columi team and it wasnt that hard but then again we have all done this fp alot with our mains. The current difficulty is fine but it takes tactics and competency and I believe thats why they failed.

 

just as I predicted

 

There you would be wrong again, several of these attempts were made by veteran raiders who know what to do.

in full campaign/black hole with a columni geared healer.

 

The issue time and time again was that the healer was not capable of generating the required number to heal through the encounter. The execution was there, the numbers simply could not be attained with the gear.

 

 

The reward is not worth it.

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There you would be wrong again, several of these attempts were made by veteran raiders who know what to do. in full campaign/black hole with a columni geared healer.

 

I'm gonna bet they might have known *some* of what to do, but not everything. I've done complete pug runs on Columi geared healers of all 3 kinds, and the only time I ever had wipes was on one run where we kept having people die to KB on Sav-Rak because they weren't running in close enough.

 

The fights in LI are a lot more complex than those of the T1 HMs, and a lot of people don't ever bother doing their research so they only know what they manage to catch out of the corner of their eye rather than everything that's going on. If a healer is having problems keeping a group of overgeared guildies alive, the problem is the players' execution, not the relative difficulty of the fights.

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I cant tank to save my life, i really do suck but I have tanked LI in my pvp dps battlemaster gear, in deception spec with only tank stance and a shield as a nod to anything tanky. I know the mechanics from dpsing it sure but the fact remains if I can tank LI anyone can.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

you can claim that it is balanced for tionese but the bottom line is that it is not.

I watched over 30 attempts last night alone, and every group was geared columni or better and all failed.

To be blunt

It's over tuned and not worth the reward.

 

Now I know i'm about to get hate/l2p flame but I simply don't care.

 

The bottom line is that the op is right.

It is balanced for four people with tionese gear, trust me, I have done it. As I wrote a little back in the thread me and a few friends bought full tionese gear just to test it out and see if it was possible, and yes it was. We cleared all the content (didn't skip packs) without one single wipe in the entire flashpoint. It all hangs on the skill of the player, just like the dev. says in his/her post, if you aren't skilled enough then maybe you should do it gear well over the req. level (rakata/blackhole/dreadguard)

 

yeah well it'd like to see the guy down this FP in tionese gear. I'd say healing would be the most critical part where groups would fail with the gear. It'd be only possible with no mistakes taken whatsoever, meaning no wandering in any of the aoe-s ever, which is quite impossible especially at the last boss.

When me and my friends from my guild did it in full tionese gear (that we only bought to test out if it was possible) we had one assassin tank (me), one powertech DPS and one sniper DPS and one sorcerer healer and we hit no enrage time, we had one death in the entire flashpoint (on trash lol) however combat ress were used and no wipes. So it is possible you just need to know the mechanics and be a skilled player.

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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just as I predicted

 

There you would be wrong again, several of these attempts were made by veteran raiders who know what to do.

in full campaign/black hole with a columni geared healer.

 

The issue time and time again was that the healer was not capable of generating the required number to heal through the encounter. The execution was there, the numbers simply could not be attained with the gear.

Sorry to say this but then the players must have been bad, over 60% of the damage on bossfights can be avoided, I guess you veteran raiders didn't and thus put a heavy pressure on the healer and thus you failed. As I wrote above, I have done it with a tionese geared group (from healer, to DPS, to tank) and we had no major problem with any of the bosses and didn't wipe in the entire flashpoint. It's all about skill and avoiding all damage possible, if you do that, the flashpoint will be very easy.

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...

 

There you would be wrong again, several of these attempts were made by veteran raiders who know what to do.

in full campaign/black hole with a columni geared healer.

 

...

This speaks to a point I made a long time ago. You could give fully optimized L61 gear to a group that didn't know what they're doing and they would wipe on LI.

 

Yet a skilled group could do it in 1/2 Columi (which I've done) and a really skilled group could do it in Tionese (See above)

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LI could have better loot, but I'd rather there be "nightmare mode" flashpoints for some instances (not all, but some) that could drop better loot.

 

I wonder if that is being considered or if people would complain since we'd be running the same flashpoints.

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LI could have better loot, but I'd rather there be "nightmare mode" flashpoints for some instances (not all, but some) that could drop better loot.

 

I wonder if that is being considered or if people would complain since we'd be running the same flashpoints.

 

I think it's time for a HM version of Mandalorian Raiders and Cademimu. Perhaps these could have ramped-up difficulty and mechanics to make them Tier 2. We do need more challenge.

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A couple of my guildies just hit 50 yesterday. Both have full 61 BiS mains so they are extremely competent raiders. One has a Mara main and the other has an Operative healer. The Mara rolled an assassin tank and the Operative rolled a Merc. The Merc had 15k health and the Assassin had around 18-20k, forget the exact number. They wiped twice on the entire instance. The other dps was a 18k Sniper and the Healer was a 19k Merc. Neither of the other players were guilded or in optimized gear. All gear in the instance was a mash up of Columi, Recruit, and Battlemaster, with the Merc possibly having the Rakata Chest. It took them 25 minutes to clear it. People who say this Flashpoint is too hard have a serious case of lazy. This FP takes about 5 mins of research on Youtube to have a firm grasp on EVERY SINGLE MECHANIC. LI HM is the preferred daily BH run in guild because our top raiders can clear it in about 15 minutes. You can can call me out on as much of this as you want, but at the end of the day if you cant clear LI HM and youre attacking me for showing how easy it is, use those 5 minutes you spent to write the post and Youtube LI HM instead.

-Atriss

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I don't see any Tionese tanks surviving the last fight with Lokin too well (tank is gonna eat some satchels), so I don't agree the mission is designed for that level of gear. This mission is listed as a Hard level 2, so theoretically everybody will be in full Columi before they walk in. If the mobs dropped Rakata-level amoring, mods, and enhancements the loot would be better balanced.

 

Figure the loot drops are for your companions..... BTW I have tanked it in mix of Tionese and Columi on my BH tank and it wasn't to bad as long as you have a healer who knows what he's doing...

 

I've found the biggest obstacle to HM LI is healers, if you bring one that is not that good it's going to be wipe city... But bring in a good healer and as long as everyone knows the mechanics of the fights it's pretty easy to do without having to wear Rakata gear..

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Figure the loot drops are for your companions..... BTW I have tanked it in mix of Tionese and Columi on my BH tank and it wasn't to bad as long as you have a healer who knows what he's doing...

 

I've found the biggest obstacle to HM LI is healers, if you bring one that is not that good it's going to be wipe city... But bring in a good healer and as long as everyone knows the mechanics of the fights it's pretty easy to do without having to wear Rakata gear..

In my personal opinion, the only fight that is healer intensive is Project Sav-Rak, when he jumps on a pipe and hurls radioactive poo. The other fights are more reliant on interrupting or avoiding damage.

 

1. Interrupt incinerate. As a tank I can catch most incrinerates at about 0.5 seconds taking no damange at all. The only other heavy damage is Experimental Cannon on one of the non tanks. As a healer, that hasn't been too hard to handle. Also, the adds do very little damage if they're focusing on the tank (aoe taunt ftw).

2. Green goo with Lorick can be cleansed. Off-healers and some tanks can self cleanse, in addition to the healers cleanse.

3. Satchel charges can be dodged. I actually prefer the left-right strafe than the run around the kolto tank. It's not that hard to avoid every satchel charge this way.

4. Interrupting Ravage is pretty key and reduces a lot of damage.

5. As a healer in the final stage of the Lorick fight I'll just plop a salvation by the door and help out on the dps.

Edited by Khevar
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