With the lovely Nerfs you have given to the Powertech's DPS specs we are now a fully melee effective class....

The problem is, we are also now left with ZERO "Close The Gap"

Warriors: Marauders and Jugs both have Force Charge

Assassins: Force Speed

I've never played a melee Operative nor do I know anyone who does, so I cannot comment on their ability.

And while we have rapid shots, I'm sorry that is no excuse to say "There, that's your closer"

Solution????

Make Jet Charge a non talent specific ability....

OR

Swap Grapple with Jet Charge

(While being able to grapple some mobs in certain fights IE the Bomber in Kephess was a nice side ability when the tanks were being slow, I would GLADLY trade that for the ability to quickly and EFFECTIVELY get into the fight)

ONE OF THESE CHANGES NEEDS TO BE HOTFIXED IN NOW DEVS..........It is hard enough for me to justify playing this game anymore, stop making it harder with every update -_-

See this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=531994

...and no, its not a good idea. Your a 10m class, not a 4m class. Mid range, not close range. Kiting is your game if your DPS, Jet charge keeps you close, thats not what you want. You want to choose who you want to keep close, that is why grapple is better for an ability for all PTs, and not jet charge.

 

 

 

 

ONE OF THESE CHANGES NEEDS TO BE HOTFIXED IN NOW DEVS..........It is hard enough for me to justify playing this game anymore, stop making it harder with every update -_-

then don't play?

...and no, its not a good idea. Your a 10m class, not a 4m class. Mid range, not close range. Kiting is your game if your DPS, Jet charge keeps you close, thats not what you want. You want to choose who you want to keep close, that is why grapple is better for an ability for all PTs, and not jet charge.

OMG?!?!? I can grapple bosses?!?!?!? THATS AWESOME ........I had no idea!!!!!! That makes so much sense now on why I was not able to put out any DPS during the start / mechanic transitions / etc of boss fights while others are able to immediately start doing dps.................man I am so dumb.......

(/sarcasm off) READ the thread brosef, I specifically listed PVE issues on why Powertechs needs Jet Charge or a similar gap closer now that we have no major dps contribution or rotation ability to use while closing distances on targets or being forced to break off during mechanics......

OMG?!?!? I can grapple bosses?!?!?!? THATS AWESOME ........I had no idea!!!!!! That makes so much sense now on why I was not able to put out any DPS during the start / mechanic transitions / etc of boss fights while others are able to immediately start doing dps.................man I am so dumb.......

 

(/sarcasm off) READ the thread brosef, I specifically listed PVE issues on why Powertechs needs Jet Charge or a similar gap closer now that we have no major dps contribution or rotation ability to use while closing distances on targets or being forced to break off during mechanics......

Sorry, I missed the list of: nothing. You listed NO issues, only other classes that have gap closers and ignored the one that doesn't because you don't play it. I'd suggest just reading through the other thread rather than trying to repeat the same info.

You're effective to 10m while those other classes are only effective at 4m. You also have a 30m basic attack and a handful of other 30m abilties to cover you until you re-engage. You can no longer front load your damage as much, but that helps your tank, especially since you don't have an aggro drop.

Assassins: Force Speed

 

I've never played a melee Operative nor do I know anyone who does, so I cannot comment on their ability.

Assassins and Ops both use Stealth, and Operatives use stunlocks and snares to keep the enemy from running away.

And, unless you're a tank, all PTs have is a pull with maybe a shorter cooldown. Which means jack diddly squat when every ranged class in the game can just stun you and hit a knockback. Knights and Warriors have a distance closer, snares, and if they go Focus/Rage, they get ANOTHER distance closer. Pretty much all a DPS Powertech can do now is hope their resolve bar gets filled.

Oh wait, that's DPS. PvE has nothing. It's like the design team though every Vanguard and Powertech should be tanks and only put in DPS trees to even them out.

I'm fine with all the other PT changes, because speaking as a PT player I was seriously overpowered. But since we have zero ranged capability now, not having a distance closer can make PvP annoying as hell now.

Assassins and Ops both use Stealth, and Operatives use stunlocks and snares to keep the enemy from running away.

 

And, unless you're a tank, all PTs have is a pull with maybe a shorter cooldown. Which means jack diddly squat when every ranged class in the game can just stun you and hit a knockback. Knights and Warriors have a distance closer, snares, and if they go Focus/Rage, they get ANOTHER distance closer. Pretty much all a DPS Powertech can do now is hope their resolve bar gets filled.

 

Oh wait, that's DPS. PvE has nothing. It's like the design team though every Vanguard and Powertech should be tanks and only put in DPS trees to even them out.

 

I'm fine with all the other PT changes, because speaking as a PT player I was seriously overpowered. But since we have zero ranged capability now, not having a distance closer can make PvP annoying as hell now.

How useful is stealth for closing a gap in PvE once you get knocked back? How useful is it for the Ops bosses? When you factor in that both Ops and Assassins need to be behind the boss and inside 4m: how useful is it?

You should be in range before a stealth toon. Stealth is NOT a gap closer. In PvP it is a gap avoider and in PvE it is useful for skipping trash but little else.

How useful is stealth for closing a gap in PvE once you get knocked back? How useful is it for the Ops bosses? When you factor in that both Ops and Assassins need to be behind the boss and inside 4m: how useful is it?

 

You should be in range before a stealth toon. Stealth is NOT a gap closer. In PvP it is a gap avoider and in PvE it is useful for skipping trash but little else.

This conversation isn't about PvE. In the actually fun PvE you don't move except to avoid hazards and the only people who should be getting hit have a team of healers keeping them alive, all while fighting an unthinking enemy that can be beaten using nothing but trail and error. Stealth and gap closers in PvE are luxuries and nothing else.

Stealth classes are the trolls of PvP. In PvP if you're knocked back you can just hit your insta-poof, back off and wait for the guy to spam his AoEs, then go right back in and do some burst damage while his knockback is on CD. Stun after the burst rotation and wham. This is, of course, assuming the match is one-on-one and you're not one of the morons who thinks they should be able to take on two people at once and win.

Vantechs have a pull with a minimum of a 35 second CD, and only if the player in question thinks two talent points are worth knocking ten seconds off a 45 second CD. Compared to stealth classes, standard knockback CDs, and the two distance closers available to Knights and Warriors, that's a gimp that now makes it hard for Vantechs to keep up with the other classes in terms of PvP performance. Having one of the best burst damage numbers in the game isn't worth a thing if we can't keep our opponent in range long enough. This was compensated for by the fact that our best abilities had 30m range, but since the range has been shortened we need a way to keep enemies in range, and a constant snare with one single pull isn't cutting it. Grapple should be a tank-only ability and the tank's leap should be available class-wide.

This conversation isn't about PvE.

... I specifically listed PVE issues on why Powertechs needs Jet Charge or a similar gap closer ....

Actually, according to the OP it *IS* about PvE, though I couldn't see any of reasons in his post. Only a list of other classes that have a gap closer.

Stealth classes are the trolls of PvP. In PvP if you're knocked back you can just hit your insta-poof, back off and wait for the guy to spam his AoEs, then go right back in and do some burst damage while his knockback is on CD. Stun after the burst rotation and wham. This is, of course, assuming the match is one-on-one and you're not one of the morons who thinks they should be able to take on two people at once and win.

 

Vantechs have a pull with a minimum of a 35 second CD, and only if the player in question thinks two talent points are worth knocking ten seconds off a 45 second CD. Compared to stealth classes, standard knockback CDs, and the two distance closers available to Knights and Warriors, that's a gimp that now makes it hard for Vantechs to keep up with the other classes in terms of PvP performance. Having one of the best burst damage numbers in the game isn't worth a thing if we can't keep our opponent in range long enough. This was compensated for by the fact that our best abilities had 30m range, but since the range has been shortened we need a way to keep enemies in range, and a constant snare with one single pull isn't cutting it. Grapple should be a tank-only ability and the tank's leap should be available class-wide.

Cloaking Screen has a 2 minute cool down, far higher than grapple's, so in similar logic to your explanation of how an operative would fight, the PT could just grapple after being knocked back, and with much more frequency than the op is able to cloak. The difference comes in first getting to the enemy, where the op would have somewhat of an advantage, depending on the situation. However, you should usually never be in a one on one fight anyway because you do not know the gear level of the enemy, so you cannot make the determination of if you should stay and fight or attempt to flee. With more people involved in a fight, it becomes increasingly harder for an op to maneuver without being seen.

With the lovely Nerfs you have given to the Powertech's DPS specs we are now a fully melee effective class....

 

The problem is, we are also now left with ZERO "Close The Gap"

 

Warriors: Marauders and Jugs both have Force Charge

 

Assassins: Force Speed

 

I've never played a melee Operative nor do I know anyone who does, so I cannot comment on their ability.

 

And while we have rapid shots, I'm sorry that is no excuse to say "There, that's your closer"

 

Solution????

 

Make Jet Charge a non talent specific ability....

 

OR

 

Swap Grapple with Jet Charge

 

(While being able to grapple some mobs in certain fights IE the Bomber in Kephess was a nice side ability when the tanks were being slow, I would GLADLY trade that for the ability to quickly and EFFECTIVELY get into the fight)

 

 

ONE OF THESE CHANGES NEEDS TO BE HOTFIXED IN NOW DEVS..........It is hard enough for me to justify playing this game anymore, stop making it harder with every update -_-

speak for yourself, the 2 DPS specs are more balanced than ever

With the lovely Nerfs you have given to the Powertech's DPS specs we are now a fully melee effective class....

 

The problem is, we are also now left with ZERO "Close The Gap"

 

Warriors: Marauders and Jugs both have Force Charge

 

Assassins: Force Speed

 

I've never played a melee Operative nor do I know anyone who does, so I cannot comment on their ability.

 

And while we have rapid shots, I'm sorry that is no excuse to say "There, that's your closer"

 

Solution????

 

Make Jet Charge a non talent specific ability....

 

OR

 

Swap Grapple with Jet Charge

 

(While being able to grapple some mobs in certain fights IE the Bomber in Kephess was a nice side ability when the tanks were being slow, I would GLADLY trade that for the ability to quickly and EFFECTIVELY get into the fight)

 

 

ONE OF THESE CHANGES NEEDS TO BE HOTFIXED IN NOW DEVS..........It is hard enough for me to justify playing this game anymore, stop making it harder with every update -_-

Parsed proof that your spec is doing so terribly?

Parsed proof that your spec is doing so terribly?

level ur own alt and post mox to prove he is wrong,

u own him an explanation,

he has no need to prove to u.

It's OK to be able to blow people up for majority of their HP from 30m even before entering the "full dps" range of 10m for 10 months straight since release as a melee dps.

It's not OK to have to play a medium range centric "melee" like a melee class at all WANT ALL BUFFS NOAW.

I can kite a marauder/jugg in the "deadzone" (5-9m) and reduce their dps and burst by 90% and laugh at them while watching them die (do this on my pyro PT ALL.... THE.... FKING..... TIME....). If I do the same to a PT, he will blow me up from 0-10m, while at 30m rapid shot is still critting for 1.5k and is still procing Combustible dot and can still nuke me for 5k+ from 30m with rail shot. As well as some nice damaging attacks like unload and ED and if you really want to, DFA is great ranged ability as well.

Also just about everything you do procs combustible which auto slow. Rail Shot will instantly refresh the dot (which also deals 1 of the 3 ticks instantly on proc) and reapply the slow, flame burst has 100% chance to proc the dot, every single tick of rapid shot can also proc the dot (its 3 ticks per usage in 1 GCD of 1.5 seconds). And if I get far enough I still have to get ready to be pulled back which put me in the chain slow range and max bursting range of a PT Pyro.

It's easy to kite a warrior but not PT, but of course thats assuming you know how to play.

Currently my 2 mains are Concealment Operative and Pyro PT (yes operative for "fun" and pyro PT for "faceroll" and I farmed all my weapons on my operative with my PT coz its just THAT MUCH easier). Even with the range nerf you still have it far better than concealment operative. And opertives effective range is also 4m just like a true melee.

And if you want to QQ about stealth which is 120 second cooldown (about 300% longer CD than harpoon) you should go QQ on Assassin/Shadow forum first. Not only they got stealth like operative they can even force speed IN OR OUT of stealth.

Anyways on my PT it took me about 2 games to get used to opening with ED and rapid shot... the amazing burst is still there. Yes PTs arent super duper special 30m MELEE burst class anymore, but they are definitely NOT broken.

Learn and Adapt. It's not like everyone going "WOW PYRO PT NERFED? DIDNT SEE THAT ONE COMING".. yea right you should know better.

I have been saying this from the moment I heard about the PT nerfs. The PT has no decent DPS any more and the tank is (imo) the worst of the 3.

AP's PFT doesn't work properly (and as you rely on it for so much of your DPS it is not worth the risk). Pyro is too slow and cannot reach targets and now gets DPS'd down at range. You get the odd player that wonders into range but in rwz this is not goign to cut it.

So what am I doing? I am currently using a Pyro / Shield Tech hybrid so that I can take Jet charge (using a DR WH relic and a Sheild Generator to at least make some of the skills I had to spec into not a complete waste). Even with the large loss of DPS and skills that have to be taken that are almost worthless, this is by far the best build I have found for PvP since 1.4.

That speaks volumes as to how bad they have messed this class up.

Wouldn't it be cool if Grapple's effect was reversed if it landed on someone immune to the pull? Say you use it on a boss; instead of the boss flying to you, you fly to the boss. Use it on a regular NPC and it'll fly to you. Use it on a player and that player will fly to you. Use it on a player with a full resolve bar and you'll fly to the player.

Bonus points if you manage to Grapple a resolved Consular using Force Speed. It's a maneuver called The Human Kite.

Wouldn't it be cool if Grapple's effect was reversed if it landed on someone immune to the pull? Say you use it on a boss; instead of the boss flying to you, you fly to the boss. Use it on a regular NPC and it'll fly to you. Use it on a player and that player will fly to you. Use it on a player with a full resolve bar and you'll fly to the player.

 

Bonus points if you manage to Grapple a resolved Consular using Force Speed. It's a maneuver called The Human Kite.

Would make more sense than grapple doing absolutely nothing, that's for damn sure.

level ur own alt and post mox to prove he is wrong,

u own him an explanation,

he has no need to prove to u.

The person saying something is wrong should be the first to Parse the problem. and if the OP wants to complain that 1 mid-range DPS class doesnt have a gap closer, operatives are in the same boat. Hell, why not give every 10m or less DPS a gap closer, and while you are at it, give the Saber wielders a 30m auto-attack... make all things the same as each other....