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Concealment any good in PvP anymore?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Concealment any good in PvP anymore?

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
12.09.2012 , 01:50 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by OrderOfVirtue View Post
This is the most accurate statement i have ever heard.... On another note BUMP THIS THREAD if you BELIEVE IN US!


http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=557558
I do believe you are complaining without fully learning the class, and all the names and insults you hurl at me will not help you play better. I think you need to evaluate what you're doing improperly and reflect on it. Your insistence that Operatives are as bereft of damage and survivability as they are is not going to be taken seriously when you state your case with pique and vitriol. I suggest watching videos, playing other classes (particularly those that give you the most trouble) and asking for tips rather than making blanket statements without at least anecdotal evidence to back them up.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
12.10.2012 , 03:18 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Sappharan View Post
I do believe you are complaining without fully learning the class, and all the names and insults you hurl at me will not help you play better. I think you need to evaluate what you're doing improperly and reflect on it. Your insistence that Operatives are as bereft of damage and survivability as they are is not going to be taken seriously when you state your case with pique and vitriol. I suggest watching videos, playing other classes (particularly those that give you the most trouble) and asking for tips rather than making blanket statements without at least anecdotal evidence to back them up.
@Sappharan. I agree with your points, but I wish that you were making them in a better way. It's generally a bad idea to use the words "pique" and "vitriol" on an internet forum. In my experience, people stop listening to you after they read them.

Longtime Op/Scoundrel PvPer here, although these days I am tending more towards Scrapping than Concealing on the battlefield. And again, to some extent, I agree with Sappharan was saying. A lot of Scraps that I see in WZs are doing a lot of stuff wrong, which is causing them to lose. Are our classes ALSO underpowered and underbalanced? Yes, probably. But a lot of PvPers are also just plain bad at PvPing with this class.

Just off the top of my head, here are a number of errors that players make. I'm going to use mostly Scrapper terms because they are more fresh in my mind, but I will try and use both where possible. For some players, this stuff will be obvious. But if the WZs I have seen are any indication, not all players know these tips.

  • Bad/no use of Sabotage Charge/Explosive Probe. Players either forget they have it or randomly toss it on. Use it as a finisher in tandem with a Backblast, especially on healers.
  • Bad/no use of Triage. A sniper pops knockback and roots us 15 feet away. Don't sit there like a Hutt. Use Triage, remove the debuff, and charge back in.
  • Terrible Flechette Round/Acid Blade reapplication. Don't immediately Backstab/Backblast after you open with Shoot First/Hidden Strike. Wait until the first FR/AB application has worn off to reapply it.
  • Keep Vital Shot/Corrosive Dart on your target. I see a lot of people spamming Lacerate/Sucker Punch without the DOT down, wondering why their followup attacks aren't proccing.
  • Keep a tick of Upper Hand/Tactical Advantage at all times. This is basic stuff, but you often see Ops/Scraps burning through their ticks.
  • Don't try to stab/shotgun/DOT/stun/etc. all of those Shadows/Sins with Shroud up! They have a super obvious visual effect so you know when they are active. Use Overload Shot or Charged Burst/Snipe to damage through. Don't waste your valuable CDs.
  • Use your heals, but don't use them in wide open areas. You will just get focused or interrupted. Duck around a corner first. Or better yet, CC your opponent (even with just a snare) before you try and heal up.

There are probably a dozen more tips and tricks I could talk about, but that gets at the heart of the matter.

Again, I know that a lot of players on this forum already know all this stuff. For you guys and girls, this is just review of habits you already have. But a lot of players, even some on this forum, either do not know this stuff, or just forget all of it in the heat of battle.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
12.13.2012 , 12:07 AM | #33
Even with following these things listed here, as a concealment op against an equally geared Min/Max player (EWH because let's face it, the stats on it suck and there's no real gain in expertise) we can barley go toe to toe outside of stealth, heaven help us if we're going against a bubble sorc, a smash jug/mara, or a hybrid shadow. Don't even think about going up against a merc healer or a ptech.

Our main issue, other than being nerfed in almost every single major patch, is our energy regeneration rate during our bursting. Today, I was in a Civil war on my server. I am in full min/maxed WH and I know my class really well. I was going up against two full recruit geared sentinels, so I sap one and proceed to burst the other. I get him down to 3/4th of his health before the initial stun rotation is done, and I'm sitting there at no energy. So, Probe later I'm back up to manageable, and I finish him off. I vanish, restart on the other guy, and I run out of energy with him at half health. So, I'm forced to rifle shoot him while his buddy comes back from the dead room.

Now, Let's look at all the other burst dps classes out in pvp at this exact same scenario.

Juggs and marauders are LOLSmashing for 7-9k on Equal geared opponents in an aoe while my highest hit throughout the night came on a pve hero topping at 5.2k.. They would have lept in, built up a stack and smashed one down with no recourse to them (this happened in this scenario because I was out of energy and had a teammate help me). What's even worse is they could have done that to both of the marauders at the same time, whereas as an operative, you are forced into one on one fights to maximize your damage.

Shadows not only are comparable or perhaps do even more damage, but have better survivability and utility. Highest "big hit" I have seen from a shadow has come in the 6-7k range on an equally geared player. Also, the main issue I have found in warzones is that their cool downs look exactly the same. BW has even gone as far as to make the Deception damage reduction look the exact same as force shroud causing complications with when to use our tech attacks and when to just use our rifle shot.

Ptechs can burn both of them down, while taking little to no damage thanks to cool downs and ignoring all their armor in less time than It would take us to.

I kinda went off on a tangent there but the point is there. Although we can do some damage, we are lacking in terms of real Viability to rateds. I am hoping that when the huge class balancing act hits post holidays that we will finally get some loving done to us. We have only really 1 viable dps spec and even that is lacking in terms of sustained dps which is what you need to finish someone off in warzones these days.
The Drakenhoff Legacy.
<Assimilation>/<Working as intended>
<Jedi Covenant>
In Domus De Aurum Et Ossuim Resistance is futile.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.13.2012 , 03:14 AM | #34
The problem with concealment ops, is that it counters the only melee hard-counter in this game: snipers. The more powerful you are, the less snipers will play in WZ, the more smash monkeys will have easy times.

I would prefer more damage to be transfered from hiddenstrike to lacerate.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
12.13.2012 , 06:26 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
The problem with concealment ops, is that it counters the only melee hard-counter in this game: snipers. The more powerful you are, the less snipers will play in WZ, the more smash monkeys will have easy times.

I would prefer more damage to be transfered from hiddenstrike to lacerate.
Every class has their bane. An argument of "no, you can't make ops more powerful because it'll make snipers less effective" isn't objective, it's just opinionated because you play a sniper.

You have a team of 7 other people who should be helping you out, making you, as a sniper, more effective by keeping you alive, and you them.
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