**Updated 1/22**

First I want to make this as clear as possible in that I really like this game. I want only for it to be successful and my primary focus is PvP. I am fully aware that this game is PvE driven but you cannot deny that PvP is a part of this game and it has been treated like a second rate feature for some time.

I'm just going to shoot off some information, things which have been considered by many to have a negative effect in one way or another on PvP and the PvP community.

-A two month delay in preseason ranked warzones

-Dying or dead servers early on which created in some cases a lack there of for warzones or anything for that matter

-A roller coaster of huge class buffs and nerfs (this effects everyone)

-Two new warzones in two years

-The complete removal and then redesign of Ilum effectively killing off world PvP outside of player driven events but do to the games engine server stability has been an issue (literally crashed PoT5 during such an event).

-A complete redesign of resolve which now permits overlapping stuns from effecting resolve making 'stun locking' more of an issue than ever.

-A change is made too sorc/sages making their backlash effect making it a hard stun for the caster and it's casted target, with the resolve change this made life miserable for melee and slowed down PvP to a snails pace in some cases and agreements were made to not abuse this in ranked warzones.

-A bolster system which was broken as anything on the PTS was launched live anyway which took months to fix

-A post on the "Summer of SWTOR" is released with little information on any PvP. A revised statement a few months later had stated arenas were coming too TOR. Mixed reactions were received.

-An announcement was made after several servers saw numerous guilds and players transfer for one purpose and one purpose only which is to get a healthy ranked warzone scene was that Bioware is removing 8v8rwz's from the game.

-A saying was said that restrictions would be lifted for F2P players on limits for warzone participation and still no word on this.

-A plan is made to implement smaller scale class balance issues in conjunction with class representatives. These reps were to ask 3 questions, 1 PvP, 1 PvE, and a general question. Some questions are marked with tremendous outcry, particularly the response made for sorcs/sages on the ability to Heal To Full. Many of these class reps are no longer active subscribers or are even playing this game.

-Given the time, money and recourses that it will take away from the game cross server queues are all but dead and will likely never come to this game.

-Few changes have been made to help balance out classes and make every class have a role when arenas are introduced which is understandable given the affect class changes have on both PvE and PvP.

-Arenas at first seem to be a success but dwindling populations has seem to be driving down popularity given that arenas was not something everyone wanted and paired with the surprise removal of 8v8rwz's players keep on leaving.

-A screenshot of a possible new huttball map is released which shows a huttball on what looks like quesh. No new information has been released on this map.

-The current state of the PvP forums is in shambles. Numerous threads on the same topic are started each week and necros are not uncommon. There is a total lack of motorization from the devs outside of players reporting which results in removing posts from threads.

*Edit*

-After the removal of static relics which were replaced with RNG there has not been a single time that when a new batch of gear arrives that a relic has not been broken and abused. See double stacking power relics and the relic of reactive warding.

-The arena leaderboards have not been updated since Saturday the 4th. No word From Bioware but a thread has been created after it was first noticed days ago.

-No deserter buff. This was briefly touched on a while ago saying they would rather not want to implement a system but rather increase insentives to finish warzones, nothing else has been said on any such system. This is becoming an ever growing problem in ranked warzones for obvious reasons.

-No daily/weekly for ranked arenas. Something like this would more than likely increase their popularity.

-The new event is having some negative effects with warzones and arenas. It's not just the coughing that stuns you momentarily it's that it is stopping channeled abilities.

All of these things and others are direct results of less and less players participating in ranked warzones or warzones in general. Now I know some will take this as a rant but there is nothing in this game that receives as little attention when speaking about content as the PvP community. They have almost removed as much content as they have added.

Without cross server queues and the recent addition of GSF PvP in this game will never be as healthy as it was after the success of launch. The devs themselves said they were surprised on how much success warzones were yet almost everything they have done has helped drive more players away than bring new ones in.

Again I want nothing more than for this game to succeed. I like the combat, I like the game and I like the overall feel but there is a sever lack of attention on PvP content or responses from the developers. Now I understand they cannot post on every single topic and they shouldn't but at this stage in the game a lot of players feel that there is no drive in them to accomplish something that could have been a fantastic PvP system.

+1 for truth.

BW has been notoriously bad at making decisions that are simple and effective (or overly simple and still not effective). They rarely follow through on things they set out to do and the things they do carry out to completion are usually met with mixed reviews or a sense of "That's great and a cool feature but there are game breaking issues that should have been addressed first".

+1

This sums things up nicely.... I have, between my 3 main characters, roughly 150+ pvpers on my friends lists. I have never removed anyone from launch onwards... Out of those people there are MAYBE 20 that still play. Hell ive unsubbed several times myself, but as cycao said this combat is fun. I also just enjoy the pvp. I actually thought my sub was canceled until an email showed up monday saying that I had a monthly cartel grant. I know that I canceled it, but I dont feel like sitting on hold for 4+ hours to try to get back $15....

I'm curious as well. Serve up some vision insights please.

Good idea putting this in gen OP...

-A screenshot of a possible new huttball map is released which shows a huttball on what looks like quesh. No new information has been released on this map.

This is the one I don't understand...new maps using the same mechanics would seem to me to provide the biggest overall bang for the buck i.e. new content with a minimum of effort.

We can get 9,358 variations of the same Cartel armor and weapons over and over but not a Civil War map with the turrets set up differently?

This is the one I don't understand...new maps using the same mechanics would seem to me to provide the biggest overall bang for the buck i.e. new content with a minimum of effort.

 

We can get 9,358 variations of the same Cartel armor and weapons over and over but not a Civil War map with the turrets set up differently?

Yeah there are only so many different ways you can have warzones work. You already have the two basic capture maps with civil war and NC which the only real difference is how the cap works and with NC you only do damage if you hold two points, a progression warzone which is voidstar, HG is somewhat a control map but it's fairly unique as you only get points for holding a point as well as killing and running orbs with a multiplier and from what imo is a terrific warzone is a capture the flag type event in huttball.

The only real thing which can be done which has been done already is adding additional features to these gametypes.

Very true, I would also add that given that the Obroan relics are so much better than any other PVE relic, except for the Dread Forged ones, and being more easy to access, we see a bunch of people with no interest in pvp , taking part in warzones , this usually lead into frustrating warzones with players not interested in winning or making any effort to support their team , they just want to get the comms and get the relic and get out.

I hope a dev responds to this. And don't forget to rate this thread guys

Honestly, for PvP, I just want these proc relics gone and clickable relics back. It bugs me to no end that my assassin has to rely even more on RNG than it already does with crits. Just let me proc my relics at the start of a fight when I choose.

I was never a huge fan of the on demand relics. I understood why they took them out but if they were to add them now TTK would need to be massively adjusted as there are more than a few abilities which can reach 8K and up without any procs now something would have to be adjusted.

I think they got it right with static relics but there has been nothing but issues with the RNG relics currently.

I was never a huge fan of the on demand relics. I understood why they took them out but if they were to add them now TTK would need to be massively adjusted as there are more than a few abilities which can reach 8K and up without any procs now something would have to be adjusted.

 

I think they got it right with static relics but there has been nothing but issues with the RNG relics currently.

Yeah well I've been minmaxing for power/surge and my agent buffed crit chance is 19, so now all too often I see discharge and shock not eating a recklessness charge and only hitting for 2k a piece. If I had a relic active and that happened it's be like 4k or so, which would almost make up for the unused recklessness charge. Of course the counter argument being that if it DID eat a charge then discharge and shock would go from 6k on average to like 8-9k on average, and 1/3 of an enemy HP took in one hit, and another 1/3 in the next hit, would be extremely cheeky and overpowered when it's able to be done on-demand at the start of every fight. So I dunno.

Yeah well I've been minmaxing for power/surge and my agent buffed crit chance is 19, so now all too often I see discharge and shock not eating a recklessness charge and only hitting for 2k a piece. If I had a relic active and that happened it's be like 4k or so, which would almost make up for the unused recklessness charge. Of course the counter argument being that if it DID eat a charge then discharge and shock would go from 6k on average to like 8-9k on average, and 1/3 of an enemy HP took in one hit, and another 1/3 in the next hit, would be extremely cheeky and overpowered when it's able to be done on-demand at the start of every fight. So I dunno.

Yeah TTK would go way down if on demand relics would be brought back. My sin could nuke almost anyone in 3 GCD.

Yeah TTK would go way down if on demand relics would be brought back. My sin could nuke almost anyone in 3 GCD.

Yeah probably lol. Just seems like I get the worst timing on when my power/willpower relics decide to proc, and they never do it at the same time when I really need extra damage.

+1

I would also like to add, that for Ranked, only a select few classes and builds are even viable. It becomes extremely difficult to have a "Favorite" class and spec, because most of the time, a PvPers favorite class and or spec either gets nerfed to a point that it is no longer viable, or it has never even been viable. For an example, Watchman/Annihilation specs. My personal class/spec, which is not even close to being viable for competitive PvP, which drives me away from Ranked PvP. Also, DPS Mercs/Commandos for any spec are not viable for Ranked PvP. Another favorite class I love to play, that I can not take in to a Ranked PvP situation without hurting my team mates.

There are many contributing factors to players leaving this game. I myself have not played in over three days now...and for me, that is saying a lot. Sad when I would rather spend my time playing Champions Online with my six year old daughter rather than PvP in SWOTR. Don't get me wrong, I love spending time either in game or away from game with my daughter, but I must admit, I have finally grown tired of waiting for my favorite (and really the only class/specs I even care to play) classes and specs to become viable. It won't be long before I /unsub all together.

Just so you know who this opinion is coming from, I am Kal-el on the POT5 FB Group.

This is the one I don't understand...new maps using the same mechanics would seem to me to provide the biggest overall bang for the buck i.e. new content with a minimum of effort.

 

We can get 9,358 variations of the same Cartel armor and weapons over and over but not a Civil War map with the turrets set up differently?

No ****!!!! Great comparison with the CM armors. Just mix terrain up and you can effectively double the maps with very minimal investment. Instead or snow and grass, it could be swamp and prairie. Voidstar could just be another section of the ship...doors/objectives stay where they are, the crap dividing them changes. So simple...such a great return...why wouldn't they?

You know what I was just thinking. Now that we have GSF, why couldn't we have a Enders Game type of game, where the individual is in a gravity-less environment fighting it out? Like a derelict ship in deep space that has super secrets everyone wants, and so you are in there fighting it out but the gravity thingamabob is broken so you are flying around in a large hangar.

Only if we can finally use rocket boost during said PvP match.

I totally agree with you. I love this game as well, and I love PvP, and I wish that a lot of the issues would have been resolved. Unfortunately, I know that the below problems will never be fixed, so I've already unsubbed.

Here's the problems that I see:

1) Look at the first couple of pages of the PvP forums. Some of the threads include: It should be harder to 2v1 someone, several different premades are evil threads, someone having trouble clicking a medpack, several threads on how evil stealth classes are, and so on. These are the top tier players now. 99.9% of the good player base has already left. What you have now are people that think they are good, who would be globbaled by people in the past.

2) The indifference of the devs. They know what makes them money. Casuals, PvE, and the Cartel Market. Why waste money and man power to make a new warzone map, or to fix rated 8v8s when they could dedicate that time to reskinning an old mount and putting it in the CC market for 2k CCs?

3) The hero engine. Unless they completely code the game for another engine, you will still have game breaking bugs to deal with. Also, no cross server which would really give a big boost to the community...especially in the rated scene.

That's just my 2 credits.

+1 OP

I routinely take breaks from this game for about 2 weeks to a month or so, but there is a common pattern that I've seen since release - The PvP community constantly dwindling on a server. Yes these loses to servers are normally met by fewer new players joining the queue, but the damage has already been done.

It seems like the main flaw in this game is its retention rate. We constantly hemorrhage players, while constantly bringing in fresh meat. If BW were to address at least some of the concerns the OP points out, we may be able to diminish the dwindling numbers of good pvpers and help the entire game community in the process.

Give game and community some love, and they will give it back.

No ****!!!! Great comparison with the CM armors. Just mix terrain up and you can effectively double the maps with very minimal investment. Instead or snow and grass, it could be swamp and prairie. Voidstar could just be another section of the ship...doors/objectives stay where they are, the crap dividing them changes. So simple...such a great return...why wouldn't they?

Please not this. I am all for not expanding too far, but I don't want reskins on current warzones. Huttball would need a new terrain setup, not the same map we're familiar with. I'd like to see ACW or NC have more nodes, like 5 turrets to make defending more than just standing at the node with no one attacking. Not sure we really need another VS or AH map, but rethink the current setup if you do.

You know what I was just thinking. Now that we have GSF, why couldn't we have a Enders Game type of game, where the individual is in a gravity-less environment fighting it out? Like a derelict ship in deep space that has super secrets everyone wants, and so you are in there fighting it out but the gravity thingamabob is broken so you are flying around in a large hangar.

While I appreciate the opinion and feed back this aimed at the reasoning as to why PvP has been slowly dying over a two year period in relations to biowares PvP commitment and their implements of changes without garnishing any feedback from the community.

Please not this. I am all for not expanding too far, but I don't want reskins on current warzones. Huttball would need a new terrain setup, not the same map we're familiar with. I'd like to see ACW or NC have more nodes, like 5 turrets to make defending more than just standing at the node with no one attacking. Not sure we really need another VS or AH map, but rethink the current setup if you do.

Yeah no re-skins but tweaks to current warzones. Id be down for larger warzones if we know for certain that the engine could handle it.

Each warzone should be unique in it's own way even if it is the same concept.

Is it possible that they have done the metrics and decided that not enough people play PvP on a regular basis for it to be worth the effort and resources to produce regular PvP maps and updates?

I'm just saying...

There must be a reason that they are not heavily focused on PvP (other than the standard conspiratory "the devs don't like PvP", because the devs and company love money and if the game was predominately played by PvP players, they'd invest in PvP more)